Is the Cue Market Dead Now and Forever?

Hard to see the market improving until the popularity of the sport improves first, which is a whole different program. The state of supply&demand dictates low prices these days and the foreseeable future. There are only so many custom cue connoisseurs to go around.

The fact that rooms are closing all over the place and pool isn't on live TV much anymore unfortunately tells us everything we need to know about the market. Wish it were different.
 
Friend

macguy said:
Is he still around, it's been a long time? I used to see him at the BCA shows sometimes. He was a nice guy and he also played pretty good.
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A friend of mine spoke with him several months ago and he seemed reluctant to sell any cues he had. I am not sure if he still gets x amount of cues per year.
 
I've only been buying cues since 1973, so it hardly makes me an expert. But, I would observe:

In the 70s, cue buying might be a few Palmers, Paradise cues, and if you were lucky, a Balabushka, and Szamboti. Some people had a few cues. There weren't too many cue collectors.

The early to mid 80s were the duldrums. Few pool rooms, only a dozen good cue makers. George was dead, and there were only so many Gus's available, and nobody even knew about them anyhow, as there was no internet.

1986, Color of Money, then several years later, every cue with inlays had to worth $5,500, at least, right?

No, they weren't. The housing and economic crunch of 2000 and 2008, brought everything down. The amazing thing is that there are still some stalwarts on the For Sale section that swear that their Dennis Searing plain, merry widdow cue should command $4,500. I don't mean to pick on Dennis, the others are in the same boat.

I still remember talking to Tim Scruggs in 1978 when Bill Stroud had put a Josswest brochure with a thousand dollar cue. Tim said, I don't think any cue should ever cost a thousand.

Incredible, right? And it's just like the housing market. Might come back, but not to your level of expectation. That fancy inlayed cue that you now have to sell to make your bills? Take your perceived value, and cut it in half. That may be what you get.

You wanted the cue market, that's the cue market.
 
The Future Markt is in Asia, most Taiwan and China. As they have talented CM there, they don't need the big overpriced Guns, just my Opinion:wink:
 
If it's dead, I bought a taper machine and new expensive lathe at the wrong time . :eek: :eek: I am broke.
The Asian market is good as some mentioned already.
I'm considering taking a dealership offer from one after I deliver the last orders.
I do feel for those makers who do this gig full-time and are in the boonies not taking any repair business.
 
WildWing said:
I've only been buying cues since 1973, so it hardly makes me an expert. But, I would observe:

In the 70s, cue buying might be a few Palmers, Paradise cues, and if you were lucky, a Balabushka, and Szamboti. Some people had a few cues. There weren't too many cue collectors.

The early to mid 80s were the duldrums. Few pool rooms, only a dozen good cue makers. George was dead, and there were only so many Gus's available, and nobody even knew about them anyhow, as there was no internet.

1986, Color of Money, then several years later, every cue with inlays had to worth $5,500, at least, right?

No, they weren't. The housing and economic crunch of 2000 and 2008, brought everything down. The amazing thing is that there are still some stalwarts on the For Sale section that swear that their Dennis Searing plain, merry widdow cue should command $4,500. I don't mean to pick on Dennis, the others are in the same boat.

I still remember talking to Tim Scruggs in 1978 when Bill Stroud had put a Josswest brochure with a thousand dollar cue. Tim said, I don't think any cue should ever cost a thousand.

Incredible, right? And it's just like the housing market. Might come back, but not to your level of expectation. That fancy inlayed cue that you now have to sell to make your bills? Take your perceived value, and cut it in half. That may be what you get.

You wanted the cue market, that's the cue market.
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I think the recession in Japan had to more to do with the slowdown now than the recession here.
 
I've been playing pool since 1988, buying cues and selling cues since then. Right now I could buy and sell all the low end cues I wanted to league players. Most of them won't buy a cue over 250 dollars around here, but there is a market for those cues. I gave up dabbling in cues, just have one that I play with. Recently ordered a new one, and look forward to playing with it.

I used to always have a cue on order, but right now there is only a couple cuemakers I'm interested in (one of them is Joey) ordering new cues from. Two of them aren't taking orders currently.

Seems that some of the new makers now price their cues out of reach for people who would want them. High end market is a small bunch of people, and that seems to be who everyone wants to market to. Hate to say it, but Dale Perry was ahead of the curve in marketing to the players who buy the most volume in new cues.

In the 80's and 90's around here, you could buy scruggs sneaky's for 100 bucks and that was a dealer making money. Joss cues were popular, but even the very high end ones were under 1000, and you could still buy most models for under 500. Plenty of cues in reach of 18 year olds with bad jobs. Now you have to have a good job to buy a cue from most makers or you buy a cue from overseas like a lucasi, players, fury, etc.
 
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Nailed

WildWing said:
I've only been buying cues since 1973, so it hardly makes me an expert. But, I would observe:

In the 70s, cue buying might be a few Palmers, Paradise cues, and if you were lucky, a Balabushka, and Szamboti. Some people had a few cues. There weren't too many cue collectors.

The early to mid 80s were the duldrums. Few pool rooms, only a dozen good cue makers. George was dead, and there were only so many Gus's available, and nobody even knew about them anyhow, as there was no internet.

1986, Color of Money, then several years later, every cue with inlays had to worth $5,500, at least, right?

No, they weren't. The housing and economic crunch of 2000 and 2008, brought everything down. The amazing thing is that there are still some stalwarts on the For Sale section that swear that their Dennis Searing plain, merry widdow cue should command $4,500. I don't mean to pick on Dennis, the others are in the same boat.

I still remember talking to Tim Scruggs in 1978 when Bill Stroud had put a Josswest brochure with a thousand dollar cue. Tim said, I don't think any cue should ever cost a thousand.

Incredible, right? And it's just like the housing market. Might come back, but not to your level of expectation. That fancy inlayed cue that you now have to sell to make your bills? Take your perceived value, and cut it in half. That may be what you get.

You wanted the cue market, that's the cue market.
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This post hit it right on the head. Very interesting , thanks.
 
WildWing said:
I've only been buying cues since 1973, so it hardly makes me an expert. But, I would observe:

In the 70s, cue buying might be a few Palmers, Paradise cues, and if you were lucky, a Balabushka, and Szamboti. Some people had a few cues. There weren't too many cue collectors.

The early to mid 80s were the duldrums. Few pool rooms, only a dozen good cue makers. George was dead, and there were only so many Gus's available, and nobody even knew about them anyhow, as there was no internet.

1986, Color of Money, then several years later, every cue with inlays had to worth $5,500, at least, right?

No, they weren't. The housing and economic crunch of 2000 and 2008, brought everything down. The amazing thing is that there are still some stalwarts on the For Sale section that swear that their Dennis Searing plain, merry widdow cue should command $4,500. I don't mean to pick on Dennis, the others are in the same boat.

I still remember talking to Tim Scruggs in 1978 when Bill Stroud had put a Josswest brochure with a thousand dollar cue. Tim said, I don't think any cue should ever cost a thousand.

Incredible, right? And it's just like the housing market. Might come back, but not to your level of expectation. That fancy inlayed cue that you now have to sell to make your bills? Take your perceived value, and cut it in half. That may be what you get.

You wanted the cue market, that's the cue market.
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Half? Try a tenth.

The market for pool in general is a distortion. No other hobby or past time produces so many inflated prices for used and unwanted goods.

As new, mint: 50% retail.
Used, good condition: 33% retail
Used, fair condition 25% retail.

Etc.

Sellers are opportunists and crooks, praying on the foolish and misguided.
 
IMO, pool cues are a tool to play the game. A production cue is fine for 100% of people that play pool. There is nothing wrong with our individual egos feeling the need and desire to have something special or custom. I play with a Runde shaft on a Schon Butt currently, although I'm a Schon dealer I really personally like Bobs shafts, it doesn't make me a bad Schon dealer IMO.
 
Shooter08 said:
IMO, pool cues are a tool to play the game. A production cue is fine for 100% of people that play pool. There is nothing wrong with our individual egos feeling the need and desire to have something special or custom. I play with a Runde shaft on a Schon Butt currently, although I'm a Schon dealer I really personally like Bobs shafts, it doesn't make me a bad Schon dealer IMO.
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Production cues are fine for 100% of players, but you play with a shaft from a custom cuemaker?????
 
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Exactly my point

Sealegs50 said:
Production cues are fine for 100% of players, but you play with a shaft from a custom cuemaker?????
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If you don't get it, PM me. I'd rather not embaress anyone. Sorry sealegs50, I don't meant to come off as a a hole, but it appears 90% of contributors on this site are. The good ones are great, but the rest are just a bunch of foolish narcissists.
 
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I have collected for about 30 years. Sold some kept some. I only go for older cues. So Palmers, early Runde Schons and early Joss for example. These cues are getting older and harder to get but are still out there. I also collect antiques, they are also down now. It is a good time to collect but sure not a good time to sell. I do not think they will go back up to where they were but hope they will hold value.
 
I know some will aggressively disagree but banning smoking in over 21 private establishments like pool halls was a significant hit that most businesses couldn't overcome. The idea of right/wrong is a separate debate. So I'm not trying to go there.

A lot of these businesses just didn't have the cash flow to make the necessary changes to accommodate the industry change. The compensation in marketing and re-branding in some aspects of the business was just way more than the traditional pool hall owners were willing to swallow.

1 out of 4 survived in my market and they had to take on a pretty heavy karaoke load to stay afloat.

That was the beginning of the shrinking of the billiard industry and of course cues are going to be a victim of that smaller market.
 
Bishop said:
I know some will aggressively disagree but banning smoking in over 21 private establishments like pool halls was a significant hit that most businesses couldn't overcome. The idea of right/wrong is a separate debate. So I'm not trying to go there.

A lot of these businesses just didn't have the cash flow to make the necessary changes to accommodate the industry change. The compensation in marketing and re-branding in some aspects of the business was just way more than the traditional pool hall owners were willing to swallow.

1 out of 4 survived in my market and they had to take on a pretty heavy karaoke load to stay afloat.

That was the beginning of the shrinking of the billiard industry and of course cues are going to be a victim of that smaller market.
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As smoking laws came in, pool halls declined and closed. Fact, over the past several years. No social commentary, just a fact. Non-smoker here, just observing.
 
This thread has garnered a lot of attention. Based on the cues in the Wanted/For Sale section that are not selling, I'm of the view that the cue market is definitely dead as of now. Buying, selling and trading Quality Cues is my hobby, so I certainly hope the cue market recovers, and soon.
 
watchez said:
Correct -- what if I posted I had one of my Southwest cues for sale?
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You'd probably be asking BIG$ and though collectors with cash can afford that most cannot...

If not, well then take a leap into a fire sale and stir the pot... I have the go-ahead from the wife..:cool:
 
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