# Is the Game of Pool Geometrically Correct and/or Complete?

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#### PolarBear

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We know darn well, that pool is not a perfect game.

Give me a break, CJ.
Is your question merely for the sake of self-promotion again?

Pool is the perfect game... Well maybe not the way some AZ'ers play it, but when i play it, it's fricken beautiful. Like I'm painting a masterpiece.

When the haterz get to our level, maybe they'll understand. (Not you specifically, just a general statement)

If CJ doesn't self promote himself, who will do it for him? The Mens Professional Billiards Association?

#### crww

##### AzB Silver Member
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Where is Ron Shepard when you need him.

#### Bob Jewett

##### AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
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Eddie Robin's book winning one pocket covers this. The cushion nose to cushion nose of a 1x2 ratio might not have been the best choice. Neither are where the diamonds are placed. The reason is if you follow the center of the ball (the gully line) it does not measure 1x2 like the cushion to cushion measurement does.

Exactly. And one could argue that the correct ratio between length and width is the golden ratio (as discussed by Donald Duck with his 3-cushion lesson). Here's a bet to win drinks with: the distance traveled up and down the table of a "nine foot" table is much closer to 8 feet than 9.

Snooker tables, on the other hand, do not measure twice as long as wide from nose to nose.

I'm still trying to figure out if the late rain will hurt the rhubarb -- mildew, don't you know.

#### nobcitypool

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Before you can ask the question of geometric correctness, it should be defined. Bank shots certainly aren't geometrically correct, angle into a rail doesn't equal angle out. Most intermediate to professional players use English to pocket balls and achieve cb position. How is that geometrically correct? I'm guessing many of the greatest players never saw the inside of an algebra classroom much less geometry or trigonometry.

Saying pool is mathematically correct doesn't do the game justice. There's far more to pool than math.

#### PolarBear

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most intermediate to professional players use English to pocket balls and achieve cb position.

This is why they will never play at the "Supernatural" level. CJ doesn't use English, he uses a "touch of inside". It's his way of compensating for a stroke that isn't as true as mine.

#### pt109

##### WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Saying pool is mathematically correct doesn't do the game justice. There's far more to pool than math.

This is how I feel.^

Balls cut thick on heavy cloth at pocket weight.
Balls cut thin on fine cloth.
Balls over-cut when airborne.
Balls cut mathematically when hit briskly with draw.
You can make a bank 'angle in is angle out'....or not.

You can ignore physics all you want...but physics won't ignore you.

#### victorl

##### Where'd my stroke go?
Silver Member
This is why they will never play at the "Supernatural" level. CJ doesn't use English, he uses a "touch of inside". It's his way of compensating for a stroke that isn't as true as mine.

I thought you said you were an APA 6 or 7 in 9 ball...

#### AtLarge

##### AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Exactly. And one could argue that the correct ratio between length and width is the golden ratio (as discussed by Donald Duck with his 3-cushion lesson). Here's a bet to win drinks with: the distance traveled up and down the table of a "nine foot" table is much closer to 8 feet than 9.

Snooker tables, on the other hand, do not measure twice as long as wide from nose to nose.

I'm still trying to figure out if the late rain will hurt the rhubarb -- mildew, don't you know.

Just fiddling. Let's ignore cushion scrunch.

Then, for a 9-foot pool table with 2.25" balls, we have:
• Nominal playing surface = 100" x 50", or 2 x 1, but
• Base-of-ball playing surface = 97.75" x 47.75", or about 2.047:1

And for a 12-foot snooker table with 2 1/16" balls:
• Nominal playing surface = 140.5" x 70", or about 2.007:1, but
• Base-of-ball playing surface = 138.4375" x 67.9375", or 2.038:1

And for a 10-foot 3-cushion table with 61.5mm balls:
• Nominal playing surface = 2840mm x 1420 mm, or 2:1, but
• Base-of-ball playing surface = 2,778.5mm x 1,358.5mm, or about 2.045:1

etc. for other-sized tables.

#### henho

##### I Beat Fidelshnitzer
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#### iusedtoberich

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
.... Snip.....
Snooker tables, on the other hand, do not measure twice as long as wide from nose to nose.

....snip.....

Uh, oh. We better not let this info escape this thread. It would blow up the whole "it only works on geometrically correct 2x1 tables".....

#### Poolshootindon

##### Registered Pool Offender
Silver Member
Complete?

The only thing complete in this thread is that I have come to a "complete" realization that I have completely wasted my time reading this thread.

Don

#### Mr. Bond

##### Orbis Non Sufficit
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm still trying to figure out if the late rain will hurt the rhubarb -- mildew, don't you know.

Use a copper based fungicide, like kocide 101

#### PolarBear

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I thought you said you were an APA 6 or 7 in 9 ball...

Sandbagging, you think I would show my true speed in APA? It would kill all my action.

#### MitchAlsup

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not only because of the two squares creating a rectangle, which in turn allow many triangles to form (when you take into account banks, ball pocketing, jump shots, combinations, caroms, masse's and position play, etc.) - also because of the straight line of the cue AND the perfect spherical shape of the balls. If any of these factors were missing from the game I don't think it would be complete and correct - that's pretty darn impressive!

I'm going to say no.

1) You can make a 93 degree cut with enough <throwing> spin.
2) you can double rail a cut shot right in front of a side pocket back into the side pocket because ofspin reversal.
3) You can make a pair of balls in line at the head spot with big draw from the kitchen.

#### CreeDo

##### Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
I used to think pool was math and geometry when I started.
But the more I play, the more it feels like pool is about physics.

All the geometric stuff that looks perfect "on paper" doesn't go as planned due to physics.
Balls undercut a hair due to throw. Kicks don't exit the rail at the same angle they entered.
All systems involving 2 and 3 rails need adjustment for the natural roll lengthening the angles.
Banks resist most systems because they're so speed dependant and the rails vary across tables.

And so much of pool is mushy intangible stuff like mood, confidence, etc.

#### Slider

##### S.F. Bay Area
Silver Member
I used to think pool was math and geometry when I started.
But the more I play, the more it feels like pool is about physics.

All the geometric stuff that looks perfect "on paper" doesn't go as planned due to physics.
Balls undercut a hair due to throw. Kicks don't exit the rail at the same angle they entered.
All systems involving 2 and 3 rails need adjustment for the natural roll lengthening the angles.
Banks resist most systems because they're so speed dependant and the rails vary across tables.

And so much of pool is mushy intangible stuff like mood, confidence, etc.

And we have a winner!

You have what CJ has been preaching about all this time—a "Touch of Insight."

Ken

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#### Sloppy Pockets

##### AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Use a copper based fungicide, like kocide 101

OK, maybe you can tell me what to do about late blight on my tomatoes and potatoes?

(Please, please let me finally learn one useful thing from one of CJ's threads).:yeah:

The Gardener (hopefully) is the Teacher

#### Bob Jewett

##### AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Use a copper based fungicide, like kocide 101

On something I'm going to put into a nice, tart pie and then eat it? I don't think so.