I saw this shot used to avoid a double hit. From under the cue ball, just a quick flip upwards.
https://youtu.be/EAJAhHqSyao
https://youtu.be/EAJAhHqSyao
Is this a legal shot?
- Thread starter BRussell
- Start date
Dang it, I am torn here LOL
A legal stroke is forward, which technically is done there, although quickly, and there is no rule about how much forward motion you need for a legal stroke.
However this is way too close to the illegal shot of just lifting the cue or dropping it. And I think that since you did not contact the cueball during the forward stroke you did not actually hit the cueball with a forward stoke but with a sideways one as you were lifting the tip up.
In conclusion, I hate you.
But I think that a real ref would call this an illegal stroke. I would also since you did not hit the cueball in a forward motion, you just faked it.
It depends on what rules you are playing by.
Most commonly, probably not legal. It's like an intentional miscue,
in the APA legal, everywhere else not
Most commonly, probably not legal. It's like an intentional miscue,
in the APA legal, everywhere else not
I used more forward motion than I meant to there. I was trying to just flick up. I was looking in the WPA rules for something about forward motion and I couldn't find anything.
this is no longer considered a legal stroke. since about 10 years ago at least
Can you show the rules that would make the shot illegal? I'm not trying to be snotty, I'm just genuinely curious because I tried and failed to find rules on it.
I don't think miscue rules would apply because it's all cue tip, about where it would hit on a normal draw shot.
I wear your hatred as a badge of honor.
From the WPA Definitions section:
8.2 Shot
A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue stick. A shot ends when all balls in play have stopped moving and spinning. A shot is said to be legal if the shooter did not foul during the shot.
Yea, contacts the cueball during the forward motion, which was not done, even though the cue started out in a forward motion.
what he said
Like I said - Legal in the APA, everywhere else - Not
As far as I know there is no written or published rule that specifically says this is a legal shot except in the APA
literature that describes a legal shot. This can be found in the Team Manual. However, I understand that some local
rules forbid this type of shot and within a local area I'm told the LO is free to adjust the rules as needed to better
administer their area. So, as I was curious about this I contacted the APA directly, and as always I save the
communication for reference. The following are excerpts from those emails that went back and forth:
I have a general rules question:
Does it say anywhere in any of the APA literature provided to members or officials that a shot must be taken with a forward stroke of the cue?
We've been debating recently, there is a shot where the cue ball is very close to the object ball and the object ball is very close to the rail. If
you slide the tip of your cue stick under the edge of the cue ball and pull the cue stick upward by holding it near the ferrule and yanking the cue
stick in an upward motion it will make a single contact with the cue ball and in turn the cue ball will contact the object ball and then the rail.
This shot would seem to comply with what is defined as a legal shot according to the team manual but I'm told this is not a legal shot.
Would this be a legal shot complying with the team manual, or is it indeed a foul?
Is this published somewhere and I am missing it?
Thank you for taking the time to contact the APA National Office with your email. I understand you are wanting to know if a particular type
of stroke is allowed during league play. I have spoken to my superior and the head of our Tournament Department to make sure the information
I provide you is correct. The shot you have described is unique but is a legal shot.
Sincerely,
Franchisee Support Representative
American PoolPlayers Assoc.
(636
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I feel it's a fair stroke...some "petit massé strokes at carambola resemble this, only sideways.
From the BCAPL rules .......
You must use a legal stroke. Any lifting, sideways, or other brushing motion of the cue,
such that the force that propels the cue ball does not primarily result from a forward
motion of the cue as defined under “Legal Stroke”, is a foul (see Diagram 4
).
(The diagram would not copy.... but it shows the cue tip at the base of the ball, implying that lifting straight up ...with no forward motion... is a foul)
I have had this come up in a match a few times ... and without a ref to watch... the shooter will always claim the tip moved forward.... I did have a guy shoot this with a ref watching and he did use a small forward stroke.. so was legal... but most times is not
You must use a legal stroke. Any lifting, sideways, or other brushing motion of the cue,
such that the force that propels the cue ball does not primarily result from a forward
motion of the cue as defined under “Legal Stroke”, is a foul (see Diagram 4
).
(The diagram would not copy.... but it shows the cue tip at the base of the ball, implying that lifting straight up ...with no forward motion... is a foul)
I have had this come up in a match a few times ... and without a ref to watch... the shooter will always claim the tip moved forward.... I did have a guy shoot this with a ref watching and he did use a small forward stroke.. so was legal... but most times is not
I think the BCAPL rules explains it best. Definitely a foul.
I rescind my hatred, from spite.
I think the BCAPL rules explains it best. Definitely a foul.
Thank you both. I didn't look in BCAPL rules.
It does look like the 1-ball reacts differently, but it's just the slow-motion I used to make sure the hit was visible. I started at regular speed, went to slomo for about a second, and then back to regular speed.