Is this POOL'S Death Knell

P

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Surely the writing is on the wall for a game where differences of opinion are solved by murder. The slaughter Edwin Reyes last Saturday morning drags the game down off the curb (kerb) and down into the sewers.

So Edwin was opinionated and passionate about what he believed in but he did not deserve to pay for it with his life.

How can promoters hold their hands out to sponsors when blood flows within the game. Pool now sits on the lowest rung of the sports ladder - sports that we don't want our children to play.

[In another thread on here we read of a prominent player facing alleged drug trafficking charges]

I am sure that a few other sports have encountered this problem (a prominent British boxing promoter survived a gunshot wound a few years ago). But this is pool - a game that should have no undercurent of violence.

There are events upcoming in the Philippines. Will (or should) international players travel to them. With an "I'm All Right Jack, Pull Up The Ladder" philosophy they will probably carry on regardless.

What about the WPA? Shouldn't they show some leadership and not associate themselves with these events until the problems are ironed out or investigations are complete? But again, I fear, it will be a case of profit before principles.
 
Doug,you know the Philippines well enough to know that it would be wrong to boycott future events because of what happened to Edwin,
he would be saddened to see that to be an outcome of the situation.

boycotting upcoming tournaments in PI would play into the hands of whoever did this,

instead,let's promote Edwin's vision, i thing PI's pool community will rally and make sure Edwin's legacy is there to survive.

that terrible crime was the brainchild of desperate lowlifes who couldn't cope with the idea of losing grasp of PI pool control.

beside, they WILL be found and handled as they should, legally or "an eye for an eye" style, mark my words.
 
mirdavanfe said:
Doug,you know the Philippines well enough to know that it would be wrong to boycott future events because of what happened to Edwin,
he would be saddened to see that to be an outcome of the situation.

boycotting upcoming tournaments in PI would play into the hands of whoever did this,

instead,let's promote Edwin's vision, i thing PI's pool community will rally and make sure Edwin's legacy is there to survive.

that terrible crime was the brainchild of desperate lowlifes who couldn't cope with the idea of losing grasp of PI pool control.

beside, they WILL be found and handled as they should, legally or "an eye for an eye" style, mark my words.
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I agree 100 percent with you that Edwin Reyes would NEVER, NEVER, NEVER want to harm pool in the Philippines. He would not want his death to be the beginning of the end, so to speak.

That said, I would never want to go to Philippines after reading about this incident. That is my personal opinion. The country is unstable.

Yes, the Filipinos are a kind and gentle people, much like Edwin Reyes, but the corruption that exists there, to include the Southern region with a variety of militant groups, Muslim terrorists, et cetera, kidnapping Americans for profit, is enough to keep my feet planted on American soil.
 
pro9dg said:
Surely the writing is on the wall for a game where differences of opinion are solved by murder. The slaughter Edwin Reyes last Saturday morning drags the game down off the curb (kerb) and down into the sewers.

So Edwin was opinionated and passionate about what he believed in but he did not deserve to pay for it with his life.

How can promoters hold their hands out to sponsors when blood flows within the game. Pool now sits on the lowest rung of the sports ladder - sports that we don't want our children to play.

[In another thread on here we read of a prominent player facing alleged drug trafficking charges]

I am sure that a few other sports have encountered this problem (a prominent British boxing promoter survived a gunshot wound a few years ago). But this is pool - a game that should have no undercurent of violence.

There are events upcoming in the Philippines. Will (or should) international players travel to them. With an "I'm All Right Jack, Pull Up The Ladder" philosophy they will probably carry on regardless.

What about the WPA? Shouldn't they show some leadership and not associate themselves with these events until the problems are ironed out or investigations are complete? But again, I fear, it will be a case of profit before principles.
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The Philippines is a place where kidnapping is an industry. I heard years ago that Jose won like $300,000.00 in the US and ended up with nothing. I have a feeling it is like a MAFIA over there and the players are pawns like it or not. Remember when Efrin was owed money by the IPT and many of us said if he doesn't get paid Trudeau would end up with a bullet in the head. Those guys there are bad dudes.
 
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Sorry to bust your balls man but Violence is everywhere man. Doesn't matter if it's pool or some guy walking along the street getting mugged, or shot.
 
Violence is everywhere but certainly it should not be at this level!

I certainly don't see one NBA coach shooting another NBA coach if they have a different opinion, neither do i see a football coach pulling a gun out or sending an assassin to terminate another coach over a difference of opinion.

ER would never hurt pool? This man also never believe his live was in danger. His baby could just as well been shot at that time. Thank god it did not happen.

I seriously doubt boycotting the events in Philippine would be playing into the hands of the perpetrator. They would have just as much to lose.

But i seriously doubt something like that is ever going to happen. There is money to be made. And MONEY is above everything else!

I also doubt that even if the perpetrator can be identified, little can be done about it.

So i think all we can do is to remember this guy and all that he has done for this game. There is little else that could be done. This event only fortified my believe that this world is an evil place where good people are too scattered and divided to do any good.
 
I think we might be missing the big picture. We lost a great man. Our thoughts and prayers should be with his family in this time of grief.
 
Well arguing, or getting upset over something like this isn't going to change anything, so why don't you just move on already.
 
The original post, complete with its sensationalized british tabloid language, is in poor taste.

Slaughter, the sewers, flowing blood, drug trafficking, profit before principles? And 'our children!'... let's not forget the children! Even as we speak, countless people (who haven't even heard of Efren, much less Edwin) are probably yanking their children in from the violent underground gutter world of pool.

Could you please be more tacky, counterproductive, and pointless? I'd be shocked if you even know exactly what the murder was about (what 'difference of opinion' are we talking about?). Violence doesn't belong in any sport, even the 'violent' ones like boxing. But soccer didn't die when that columbian referee was murdered. I'm sure pool will survive too. Let's not be complete tools by labelling one setback as the end of a 500 year old tradition, shall we?
 
Sensationalised

Tacky? Edwin Reyes was a good friend of mine and his pointless death begat the strong language that I used. Shot twice with a baby in your arms, that is slaughter. Blood, the stuff that comes out of bullet holes.
Sewers - I couldn't think of anywhere lower. Of course, I do not know why this happened and it would not be right to point fingers at innocent people. There was a similar killing in Manila later the same day when an Indian businessman was shot dead by gunmen on a motorcycle. No connection but Edwin's fate was not a case of mistaken identity.

Yet the story cannot find houseroom on this website.

Sure pool may survive for the reasons that I mentioned. But take off the rose tinted glasses. 500 years of tradition - don't make me laugh!

Does that tradition include The Challenge of Champions coup, WC dumping, the Mackey Years, KT cheating and being cheated etc etc
Is there one thing that pool has contributed to the Greater Good?

Watch The Hustler again. It is as relevant today as it ever was - the nightmare continues.

In five years time televised pool will almost cease to exist.

Remember -you heard it here first.
 
pro9dg said:
Tacky? Edwin Reyes was a good friend of mine and his pointless death begat the strong language that I used. Shot twice with a baby in your arms, that is slaughter. Blood, the stuff that comes out of bullet holes.
Sewers - I couldn't think of anywhere lower. Of course, I do not know why this happened and it would not be right to point fingers at innocent people. There was a similar killing in Manila later the same day when an Indian businessman was shot dead by gunmen on a motorcycle. No connection but Edwin's fate was not a case of mistaken identity.

Yet the story cannot find houseroom on this website.

Sure pool may survive for the reasons that I mentioned. But take off the rose tinted glasses. 500 years of tradition - don't make me laugh!

Does that tradition include The Challenge of Champions coup, WC dumping, the Mackey Years, KT cheating and being cheated etc etc
Is there one thing that pool has contributed to the Greater Good?

Watch The Hustler again. It is as relevant today as it ever was - the nightmare continues.

In five years time televised pool will almost cease to exist.

Remember -you heard it here first.
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I agree with you. The whole thing stinks.

If I were an international pool kind of persona, I would refuse to ever step foot on Philippines soil again, unless the government investigates Edwin Reyes' murder.

Pool is supposed to be top shelf in Philippines. How can the authorities ignore this?

A broken-up pool cue was delivered to Edwin, and as he was signing for it, he was shot dead with a .45. This was no mistaken identity or a random killing. It was intentional. MURDER!

It has brought pool to an all-time low, Edwin Reyes' death. He's in a better place today, but his senseless murder will stain the sport of pool in the Philippines forever more in my eyes.

I hope Matchroom Sports and other pool organizations respond to this by not hosting events in Philippines anymore. If Matchroom Sports and others do continue to have events there in the Philippines, they are giving in, to the murderer(s) of Edwin Reyes.
 
Edwin's murder horrified me! But I'm still going back to the Philippines next month. I feel safer there than on the streets of L.A. at night. I'm more worried about the plane flight over and back.

Yes, there have been scandals in pool, including dumped matches and the like. But overall, our record is tame compared to the activities of athletes in other sports. Take a look at the what has happened with football, basketball and baseball players over the course of the last ten years or so. It runs the gamut from domestic abuse to drug use to assault and even murder! Rarely a week goes by without another scandal of some sort. It's been a tainted history for all these so called major sports. Pool is tame by comparison.

Making big money has not been the antidote by any means to bad behavior. Some of the biggest scandals have been perpetuated by the richest athletes. They seem to feel privileged, as if the law does not apply to them.

I do agree that Edwin's death has to have an effect on pool in the Philippines. It brings into focus how serious the situation was (and is) over there. Pool is a big time sport in the Philippines, much like tennis or golf over here. Once again money, power and control have raised their ugly heads. I wonder how this will effect the upcoming events over there and those planned for the future. I feel there will be a broad shadow cast over them. It will take years for the wounds to heal from Edwin's tragic death.
 
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jay helfert said:
Edwin's murder horrified me! But I'm still going back to the Philippines next month. I feel safer there than on the streets of L.A. at night. I'm more worried about the plane flight over and back.

Yes, there have been scandals in pool, including dumped matches and the like. But overall, our record is tame compared to the activities of athletes in other sports. Take a look at the what has happened with football, basketball and baseball players over the course of the last ten years or so. It runs the gamut from domestic abuse to drug use to assault and even murder! Rarely a week goes by without another scandal of some sort. It's been a tainted history for all these so called major sports. Pool is tame by comparison.

I do agree that Edwin's death has to have an effect on pool in the Philippines. It brings into focus how serious the situation was (and is) over there. Pool is a big time sport in the Philippines, much like tennis or golf over here. Once again money, power and control have raised their ugly heads. I wonder how this will effect the upcoming events over there and those planned for the future. I feel there will be a broad shadow cast over them. It will take years for the wounds to heal from Edwin's tragic death.
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Well Jay, you do have some good points there. But from one old pool junkie to another - is pool that important. It is a popular sport in the Philippines but as big as golf or tennis in the USA? That I cannot agree with -or are they both that small?

{I feel now that I am taking on the King of the Jungle by disagreeing with Jay}

But right now let's not tarnish Edwin's memories.

Besides that, I thought you go to Manila for some horizontal recreation.
 
pro9dg said:
Well Jay, you do have some good points there. But from one old pool junkie to another - is pool that important. It is a popular sport in the Philippines but as big as golf or tennis in the USA? That I cannot agree with -or are they both that small?

{I feel now that I am taking on the King of the Jungle by disagreeing with Jay}

But right now let's not tarnish Edwin's memories.

Besides that, I thought you go to Manila for some horizontal recreation.
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Next time you're there check the media coverage of a major pool tournament. It's a big story EVERY day! In ALL the newspapers in case you hadn't noticed. And it can be on LIVE television several hours a day (four or more is average). I've worked on these shows so I know of what I speak. And the ratings are monstrous, often ten million people in a population of ninety million watching. If that's not a major sport, I don't know what is.

The coverage of pool in the Philippines rivals what we would see here for the Master's golf tournament or the U.S. Open tennis. This has nothing to do with politics but the perception of pool as a major sport in the Philippines is an accurate one. Efren Reyes may well be the second biggest sports hero after Manny Paquiao. I have walked down the street with him followed by dozens of kids, who only want to touch him.

And I do have a girlfriend in the Philippines, a lovely girl. Thanks for remembering her. :)
 
To paraphrase famous Scottish football manager: "Pool is not a matter of life and death. It's more important than that!"

The Show Must Go On.

I rather overestimated the appeal of golf and tennis then. I forgot that US viewers prefer team sports to individual performers.

When Dennis Taylor beat Steve Davis to win the World Snooker Championship there were 19.7 milllion people watching. That is about one third of the population of the UK. I had a Snooker Coaching segment in a peak time travel show and it was watched by 14million people. Yet snooker at it's peak could barely make an impact in the newspapers.

It was a television driven thing, not a major sport.

I also know of Efren's deity status. I've been with him several times in Dubai when they cleared the front row in a night/cabaret club so that we could go there. He just sat there placidly signing autographs, posing for pictures.

Walk into any restaurant in the World that employs Filipino expats and ask the waitress "Do you know Efren Reyes" "Who?"
"The Pool Player"
"Oh! You mean Bata. Yes"
I know that if he or Bustamante showed up in any major World capital they would be guaranteed an audience of at least 300 Pinoys/

All I am saying is that such is the potential of the game in that part of the globe that it is regarded as IMPORTANT to kill a man for his views.

As you say Jay it will take a long time for that shadow to disappear (like forever)
 
jay helfert said:
Next time you're there check the media coverage of a major pool tournament. It's a big story EVERY day! In ALL the newspapers in case you hadn't noticed. And it can be on LIVE television several hours a day (four or more is average). I've worked on these shows so I know of what I speak. And the ratings are monstrous, often ten million people in a population of ninety million watching. If that's not a major sport, I don't know what is.

The coverage of pool in the Philippines rivals what we would see here for the Master's golf tournament or the U.S. Open tennis. This has nothing to do with politics but the perception of pool as a major sport in the Philippines is an accurate one. Efren Reyes may well be the second biggest sports hero after Manny Paquiao. I have walked down the street with him followed by dozens of kids, who only want to touch him.

And I do have a girlfriend in the Philippines, a lovely girl. Thanks for remembering her. :)
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You're right Jay, EVERY Filipino in the world knows who Efren Reyes is. Whenever i meet someone who is Filipino I ask them if they know who Efren Reyes is and they say "of course" and they look at me strange as if it was a stupid question, kind of like asking an American who Elvis Presley is.
 
Bobby said:
You're right Jay, EVERY Filipino in the world knows who Efren Reyes is. Whenever i meet someone who is Filipino I ask them if they know who Efren Reyes is and they say "of course" and they look at me strange as if it was a stupid question, kind of like asking an American who Elvis Presley is.
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Not to change the subject, but I will anyway. :wink:

In China LAST YEAR, I inquired of my friends there if they had heard of Elvis Presley. Only a blank stare. What about The Beatles. Another stare. Okay, what about the first man on the Moon, Neil Armstrong. NOTHING!

Only John F. Kennedy was a familiar name to a few people I met in China. Talk about news blackouts and censorship!
 
jay helfert said:
Not to change the subject, but I will anyway. :wink:

In China LAST YEAR, I inquired of my friends there if they had heard of Elvis Presley. Only a blank stare. What about The Beatles. Another stare. Okay, what about the first man on the Moon, Neil Armstrong. NOTHING!

Only John F. Kennedy was a familiar name to a few people I met in China. Talk about news blackouts and censorship!
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Wow, I thought everyone at least would know Elvis!
 
With the invent of karaoke in the far east, i would have assumed that every karaoke singing Asian would at least know who Elvis was, even in China.
 
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