JA vs MD push out after the break match.
- Thread starter bfdlad
- Start date
How about Shane is no longer allowed to practice at all. He can only compete...That would help players out tremendously!!! His break would be like the others and everyone is happy
He doesn't do that at all. There's no denying that bigger pockets make it SUPER tough to fade a break like Shane's. Acknowledging that isn't making excuses.
I thought it was a pretty classy response from Dechaine, to be honest.
push out doesn't make the game more defensive, it makes it more offensive
What is not being considered is Push Out makes each player more offensive in their run outs. I've heard several say that it would be boring because of the safety play. However, think about it, a safety doesn't give you any advantage since your opponent can just Push Out.
In One Foul you have two options, try to make the shot or play safe so your opponent has to kick. This is the only strategy that comes up. In Push Out there's a lot of strategy, but playing safe doesn't win any games so you have to utilize the "Two Way Shot". The two way shot has been taken out of the game with one foul rules. What's perplexing is the "two way shot" is the most skillful shot in pool, and it's been eliminated.
Playing push out doesn't make the game more defensive, it makes it more offensive because players will take chances they would NEVER take playing one foul. In one foul, instead of taking a chance on a tough run out the player will usually opt to just play a lock up safe. Talk about boring.
What is not being considered is Push Out makes each player more offensive in their run outs. I've heard several say that it would be boring because of the safety play. However, think about it, a safety doesn't give you any advantage since your opponent can just Push Out.
In One Foul you have two options, try to make the shot or play safe so your opponent has to kick. This is the only strategy that comes up. In Push Out there's a lot of strategy, but playing safe doesn't win any games so you have to utilize the "Two Way Shot". The two way shot has been taken out of the game with one foul rules. What's perplexing is the "two way shot" is the most skillful shot in pool, and it's been eliminated.
Playing push out doesn't make the game more defensive, it makes it more offensive because players will take chances they would NEVER take playing one foul. In one foul, instead of taking a chance on a tough run out the player will usually opt to just play a lock up safe. Talk about boring.
why not just tighten the pockets back up and this push out talk will go away.people want to see the better player win not the better breaker.
Let me know if ya Need a CO representative :wink:. Another factor, players breaking and then Not breaking upsets their break rhythm and will cause more variations. I've seen quite a few times, a top pro in tennis dbl fault when on the hill.
Being the better breaker is also part of being the better player.
Player A is a better ball maker.
Player B is a better breaker.
Player C is better at cue ball control.
All three of these can win you a match at any given time. The game doesnt need to conform to those who are the best at it. The players need too. When Shane beat Mike he was Player A, B and C.
So if Pauly Positionking can put the cue ball on a pinhead when playing position and Mikey Makeaball thinks that is unfair does that mean the game must be changed to make it more fair for Mikey to win? Does anyone who plays Pauly allowed the handspan spot? That is something I'd expect to see if these two are matching up and betting and arguing over a spot. Not something that should be in a professional match up like what TAR is doing now.
It's like saying, Larry Bird is too good at three pointers so we are going to move the three point line back 10 feet so he has less of an advantage.
A diamond pro cut table is already tough as balls, kudos to the players who make it look easy. They deserve to be champions and shouldnt have to put up with gaffing a table so the opponent has a better chance.
All this above said, I like tight pockets. I enjoy playing on them and enjoy watching matches on them. Just trying to argue the fact the game shouldn't be changed because someone dominates in one portion of it. The players need to change to dominate in that portion as well.
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I believe......
Grady's rules, were used in the mini 9 ball tournies at the Derby. It was pushout any time, but the shot you push has to be pocketed if given back to you. If your opponent shoots the shot, he must pocket it, or it's ball in hand. Having to push out a makeable shot, that your opponent won't shoot, makes it a tough game. The best shot makers should really like that game.
What is not being considered is Push Out makes each player more offensive in their run outs. I've heard several say that it would be boring because of the safety play. However, think about it, a safety doesn't give you any advantage since your opponent can just Push Out.
In One Foul you have two options, try to make the shot or play safe so your opponent has to kick. This is the only strategy that comes up. In Push Out there's a lot of strategy, but playing safe doesn't win any games so you have to utilize the "Two Way Shot". The two way shot has been taken out of the game with one foul rules. What's perplexing is the "two way shot" is the most skillful shot in pool, and it's been eliminated.
Playing push out doesn't make the game more defensive, it makes it more offensive because players will take chances they would NEVER take playing one foul. In one foul, instead of taking a chance on a tough run out the player will usually opt to just play a lock up safe. Talk about boring.
Grady's rules, were used in the mini 9 ball tournies at the Derby. It was pushout any time, but the shot you push has to be pocketed if given back to you. If your opponent shoots the shot, he must pocket it, or it's ball in hand. Having to push out a makeable shot, that your opponent won't shoot, makes it a tough game. The best shot makers should really like that game.
The funny thing is that's what we already see now. The better breaker, is USUALLY the better player. Why??? BECAUASE THEY PRACTICE!
best,
Justin
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I had a JB 10 paragraph response to this, but instead I will just summarize it and say you absolutely failed here and will probably never understand why even when it is explained to you. That is all.
No offense intended, but I actually laughed out loud at this statement. I don't know what rules anyone is playing in pool halls in Germany (for 10-ball) but there's a pretty good bet they're not the same as what people are using in the States. Even in the States, Predator Tour vs GSBT vs Dominiak 10-ball Tour vs TAR matches... there is no "rules have always been."
And personally, I think the whole call shot 10-ball is silly. I've been playing 10-ball for coming up on 25 years and there are more rule changes in the last 5 that I can't tell whether I actually am winning or losing. And that's a serious statement. (Guy makes the 10-ball and has to look around to get some kind of acknowledgement whether he won, spots, reracks, fouled...)
Freddie <~~~ needs bucket pool. Then fouls will make sense.
lololol, yeah lets turn it back to a slop game! Rocket fire Billy 10 ball in da hole somewhere!!
Do you see that a lot where you're from? 10-ball is tough enough. I don't see many spray and prayers anywhere regardless of what the games is.
I haven't been back in the competitive pool world for about 2 years but at Big Dogs here in Des Moines for the 10 ball tournament they make it call shot. It's a no brainer. Sure it is tough enough but why tweak it back and reward shtty play or slop? It's like people want free handouts and don't want to improve their game (being a bit facetious but hopefully it makes the point). I want to earn my runouts not sht in a ball and go weeee as my opponent racks knowing I luckboxed it.
Just Another Dude's Opinion
The problem I see is you have two different objectives that get rolled into one. The first objective is: What game would a PRO PLAYER create that would best showcase his overall skill? The 2nd objective is: What game can be created that is the most interesting to watch for spectators?
Too often these two different objectives get rolled into one, thinking that what's good for the pro player will be interesting for the spectator. I really don't think this is the case. It's most often the pro player that really wants to change things up because they are frustrated that they can't showcase all of their skills. I understand this frustration a bit, but that's life.
How do you think NFL wide receivers feel? These guys are some of the greatest athletes in the world, and they are lucky if they get the ball thrown to them 10 times during an entire game. If I was an NFL wide receiver, I think I would want to eliminate the run from the game and make the hurry up offense mandatory. Then I would really be able to show the world my skills. Turning the game into flag football would be even better for them, as far as showcasing their skills is concerned. Only problem is - nobody would be watching them anymore. Luckily for the fans of the NFL, it's not the players that get to determine what the on the field product looks like.
The problem I see is you have two different objectives that get rolled into one. The first objective is: What game would a PRO PLAYER create that would best showcase his overall skill? The 2nd objective is: What game can be created that is the most interesting to watch for spectators?
Too often these two different objectives get rolled into one, thinking that what's good for the pro player will be interesting for the spectator. I really don't think this is the case. It's most often the pro player that really wants to change things up because they are frustrated that they can't showcase all of their skills. I understand this frustration a bit, but that's life.
How do you think NFL wide receivers feel? These guys are some of the greatest athletes in the world, and they are lucky if they get the ball thrown to them 10 times during an entire game. If I was an NFL wide receiver, I think I would want to eliminate the run from the game and make the hurry up offense mandatory. Then I would really be able to show the world my skills. Turning the game into flag football would be even better for them, as far as showcasing their skills is concerned. Only problem is - nobody would be watching them anymore. Luckily for the fans of the NFL, it's not the players that get to determine what the on the field product looks like.
So you don't have a response, then? Good for you. You seem pretty content with just making half-baked assumptions... so carry on, I suppose.
I'm guessing you don't even know the rules of call shot. And I"m not saying this because of you, it's because of the inherent rules fiasco when they (the WPA) suggested call shot. That's why there are so many different rule sets. I'm quite sure that whatever rules your Big Dogs do, there is at least one major mod from the WPA rules. That's pretty consistent with all 10-ball tourneys.
And I don't expect an answer about whether you know the rules. If there was an answer, then there would be no issue. But there are issues. That's a fact. Going to no call (when there wasn't any issue) is logical. Your idea of "no brainer" isn't accounting for the difficulties of setting the rules of call shot and the "what if" scenario. ESPN tried it with 9-ball. Fiasco.
Read my other post carefully again.
Half baked assumptions lol? Did you read what Mike wrote? Did you read Watchez response? Do you know Mike's history on commenting etc? Do some research. Thank you come again.
So again, no response outside of silly rhetorical questions.
Acknowledging the playing conditions were not of his liking =/= making excuses for the loss.
If you are referring to the calling out loud every single shot then yes I agree with you...I probably miss read your other post.