Jay Helfert owes an apology!

[!Smorgass Bored]

That's What I'm Known For.... My THINKING

I dont' think you have anything to apologize for. It looks like everyone who was in contention had a shot on that table. And that's what one of the leading participants of the challenge told me as well, after the rumor mill started up. Some people mistakenly have been led to believe that Gabe and only Gabe shot on that table. I thought this had been unsubstantiated pretty much immediately.

I think it is they who owe you an apology for dragging your efforts down.

Fred

Now, I'm not sure what to think.
I think that the only fair solution is a Do-Over.
Doug
( would someone please call all the participants and have them assemble immediately.....WITH their cues )

 

[beetle]

I have waited 2 days since the DCC hoping Jay would come clean

Now let's see how long we have to wait for you to come clean and apologize to Jay for your uninformed mis-characterization of the events.

Obviously Jay was put into a difficult situation and handled it in the only fair way possible.

Talk about a this-is-my-sandbox move...

 

[MOJOE]

Jay,

I think that you should be commended for the work and effort that you put into this game. Would not lose too much sleep over this one!

Correct me if I am wrong, but both tables were 9' Diamonds with pro cut pockets. Yes, the conditions may have been different but you did what needed to be done. You owe no one an apology! Thanks for helping make the DCC a success with your contributions!

Peace, JBK

 

[dmgwalsh]

Now for the full story. We were playing the One Pocket Challenge in the same room as the Straight Pool Challenge run by Bob Jewett. He offered to let us use his second table. On the first day, our event did not attract too many players. But on the second day it picked up and everyone (except Efren) started shooting at it. John Schmidt was leading with a 45, and I even bet Greg Sullivan $100 that it would hold up. We had a couple of other scores in the 40's, by Alex and Gabe.

Bob seemed to be enjoying the Challenge as much as Steve Lomako and I were enjoying putting it on. At least I thought so. Steve wasn't so sure, and asked me more than once if I thought Bob was upset because of all the attention our event was getting. I assured him this was not the case.

Now it was the third and final day, and the place went crazy. We had six or seven top players lined up taking turns trying to beat John's 45. Gabe, Alex, Corey, Mika, Cliff and Allen Hopkins just to name a few. It was bedlam in there and everyone was having a blast, ribbing each other and trying to shark the other guys. Greg Sullivan and Mark Griffin hung out with us for a long time, and they seemed to be enjoying it as much as we were. I guess it somewhat over shadowed the Straight Pool being played on the next table. And you all know that during high runs, the audience is expected to be quiet. Quiet it wasn't!

I can testify to the fact that the one pocket players were loud and wild and it probably affected the straight pool players. Pagulayan, Tadd, Wiseman, and Deuel were woofing when Archer was in the middle of his run.

There was lots of noise when Harriman was shooting and he was down on a break shot when Jay dropped a bridge and Danny jumped up and remarked that you needed nerves of steel to play 14.1 in that room.

It soon became the norm for the 14.1 players to shoot with all the noise going on.

The one pocket however was very popular and very entertaining. I think it's a good idea to separate the two next year.

 

[nfty9er]

Apologize for what?

Now let's see how long we have to wait for you to come clean and apologize to Jay for your uninformed mis-characterization of the events.

Obviously Jay was put into a difficult situation and handled it in the only fair way possible.

Talk about a this-is-my-sandbox move...

To all of you people supporting Jay, that is commendable but not very logical. I made no mis-characterizaion of the events. It makes no difference what Jay says. "All contestants, not just a select few should have participated on the 2 tables used during the duration of the contest.
This is a no brainer. Not only that Jay decided to extend the contest beyond the time it was suppose to go. He kept changing the rules. So did everybody know he changed the rules. Hell no. So if these few got to shoot on the Tv table then everyone who participated should have been able to. He let them shoot to 7 a.m., wow, show me where that was in the original rules. I do not have any quarrel with Jay on the 1p challenge, it was great but you cannot change rules and conditions for some and not for everyone. That table played way easier, I know, I saw for 8 nights.
I am also not taking away from Gabe's accomplishment, it is a great run under difficult conditionns, but I am sure even he will agree that everyone should have had a chance. There were upset people big time, you just will not hear from them as they do not want to sound like poor losers and a contest they may not have won anyway, even on a better table.
People thought the contest was over at 12. I knew if I posted this people would turn it around, makes no difference a certain pro asked me to do it so at least people knew it was not exactly fair.
Also Jay's side of the story is a little exagerated, which I would expect since he had to say something.
He cannot explain why everyone should not have a shot on that table.
I was in the room when he announced the contest ended at midnight. Some top pros had no idea it was going on later. And some of them shot many times at the top score. Think they may not have wanted to try again on the tv table? So it makes no difference what u people think. He changed the rules and the table. You can only get away with that shit in pool.

 

[beetle]

Also Jay's side of the story is a little exagerated, which I would expect since he had to say something.

Now I ask you did he let anyone else go out there and try it? No.

You are the only one on record for exagerration and misrepresentation.

 

[nfty9er]

So funny

You are the only one on record for exagerration and misrepresentation.

Were u there? Did everyone get to try it? You are hopless and usless.

 

[jay helfert]

To all of you people supporting Jay, that is commendable but not very logical. I made no mis-characterizaion of the events. It makes no difference what Jay says. "All contestants, not just a select few should have participated on the 2 tables used during the duration of the contest.
This is a no brainer. Not only that Jay decided to extend the contest beyond the time it was suppose to go. He kept changing the rules. So did everybody know he changed the rules. Hell no. So if these few got to shoot on the Tv table then everyone who participated should have been able to. He let them shoot to 7 a.m., wow, show me where that was in the original rules. I do not have any quarrel with Jay on the 1p challenge, it was great but you cannot change rules and conditions for some and not for everyone. That table played way easier, I know, I saw for 8 nights.
I am also not taking away from Gabe's accomplishment, it is a great run under difficult conditionns, but I am sure even he will agree that everyone should have had a chance. There were upset people big time, you just will not hear from them as they do not want to sound like poor losers and a contest they may not have won anyway, even on a better table.
People thought the contest was over at 12. I knew if I posted this people would turn it around, makes no difference a certain pro asked me to do it so at least people knew it was not exactly fair.
Also Jay's side of the story is a little exagerated, which I would expect since he had to say something.
He cannot explain why everyone should not have a shot on that table.
I was in the room when he announced the contest ended at midnight. Some top pros had no idea it was going on later. And some of them shot many times at the top score. Think they may not have wanted to try again on the tv table? So it makes no difference what u people think. He changed the rules and the table. You can only get away with that shit in pool.

So many players wanted a chance at it, that we had to make a deadline for entries. I announced early in the evening on the final day that we would accept no more entries after Midnite. And that is what we did. All who paid got a chance at it, and that is why it lasted until 7 AM.

The rules of the game were never changed at any time. That is a flat lie!

I did not want to move the game to another room, but I had no choice. I would have preferred that all attempts be made on the same two tables, but unfortunately, that was not the case. These were identical Diamond Pro tables. Only the conditions were different.

I am more than a little confused by nfty9er comments here. On the one hand he says he has no problem with me and the One Pocket Challenge. He thinks it was great. Then at the end of his post, he states that I changed the rules and the table, and goes on to say that this shit only happens in Pool. This is what I call talking out of both sides of your mouth.

He goes on to say that my version of what happened is exaggerated. Okay how so?

 

[9_Ball_King]

Priceless comments.....

You are hopless and usless.

You say he is hopless: does this mean "he can't jump like a bunny"?

You say he is usless: does this mean "he is never with you....but always alone?"

IMO you sound like a "whiner"..

 

[jay helfert]

Were u there? Did everyone get to try it? You are hopless and usless.

The bigger question is WERE YOU THERE? I don't remember meeting you if you were. Most AZ'ers came up and introduced themselves to me.

Everyone who paid an entry got to try it, except Rafael Martinez, who received a refund of his $50. Most of the top players tried it on both tables. Only Gabe was able to shoot better than 50. All the rest posted scores in the 30's and 40's and sometimes less.

What I'm wondering is, if it was so easy, how come only Gabe shot a much higher score on the TV table? No one else could break 50 on that same table. I guess he just got lucky five innings in a row.

 

[Cornerman]

What I'm wondering is, if it was so easy, how come only Gabe shot a much higher score on the TV table? No one else could break 50 on that same table. I guess he just got lucky five innings in a row.

And he ended up winning the one hole tournament. What a lucky coincidence.

Fred <~~~ thinks Gabe must have had the Efren luck going

 

[beetle]

You say he is hopless: does this mean "he can't jump like a bunny"?

You say he is usless: does this mean "he is never with you....but always alone?"

IMO you sound like a "whiner"..

lol! I'll have you know, if it weren't for my "hopping" ability, I wouldn't be here today. It saved me 3 months ago when I almost stepped on a very large fer-de-lance in Bolivia! I was "usless" at the time, so I would be usless permanently if not for my hopfulness.

 

[shinobi]

When I saw the thread title, I assumed it was going to be a joke. Jay's a stand-up guy who does a lot of good for the sport, and this 1P Challenge was no different.

To the original poster, stop being such a whiner and drama queen. How about, "Jay, thanks for the 1P challenge! I hope next year arrangements can be made to ensure all contestants play on the same table. Some people weren't happy that conditions weren't consistent" That isn't so hard, is it?

 

[Black-Balled]

Sounds good to me, I have no problem with it; and no participant seems to be screaming either. This is all Shakespeare...Much ado about nothing.

I am also pleased.

 

[beetle]

Message deleted, so as not to fan the flames.

 

[yobagua]

I really find this thread and its creator is just someone trying to get attention. The kind of attention that he couldnt get at the Derby. Perhaps because he himself is not one of the countless talented that were in attendance. If he was he would show some respect to what Gabe did. I know many other of the pro's did. And they knew he did it on the tv table. Now there is so many good things that came out of the one pocket ghost event. So many things Jay Helfert did that was positive for the game. You could of mentioned that but you managed to pick the one bogus negative thing. Why? What is the reason? Why do you want to appear in the miniscule minority. To bring attention to yourself.?

And it is this that brings my reason for my response. One thing I did notice about people who post on the message boards. And also about myself. I realized after watching some of the posters play that they were really not that skilled in the game. Now Im talking about one pocket specifically because that is my interest. But after confirming with a good friend from Chicago, a well seasoned one pocket player, we agreed that a lot of the posters who made frequent opinionated posts about the game were really not that good. Then I started questioning myself. I have posted a lot. Had a lot of opinions. But am I that good? Does my game match my opinions. I had come to the realization that my words were much more than my game could back up. Although I have played most of the top players in my area I never really had the heart to play them in real challenging confrontations. That I was some what of a nit myself.
When I came back I would resolve to not do that. To select my postings and concentrate on my game and let that do the talking. I feel sorry for you 9er. I know what you are doing \ and why. You want to compensate for your inabilities. Why attack Jay? He has been one of the good guys. Oh yeah he is an old timer and knows all the tricks in the game. But I can tell you he is a most honorable man. He is the only guy I know to have lost a bet with me and come looking for me. Usually Im the one hunting the other person down. Yes he might exaggerate at times but dont we all. And his offer to play many of the top players in my town even in banks stands till today. Why attack him. We're listening to you now. You have our attention. What do you want to say about the man. What do you want to say about yourself.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Jay - Have you contacted Bob J. as he seems to have a beef with you?

It's not a beef, exactly.

For the most part I enjoyed the 1-P shootout. Several of the early tries were captured on video, including 15-and-outs by Allen Hopkins and John Schmidt. We (the guy who supplied the video equipment and I) are in the process of figuring out how to make those and some 14.1 runs available, probably on the AZB TV section. I was happy to run the 1-P for the early birds in the mornings when Jay and Steve had not yet arrived -- the room opened at 10AM.

There was an issue of noise a couple of times. It seemed like some of the people around the back table were being obnoxious on purpose. Maybe it was just their enthusiasm.

It would have been nice if someone had helped to clean the table and balls, but I realize that clean equipment is not the norm, and it was only the examples of Deuel and Schmidt in the past two years of the 14.1 that clued me into the fact that cleanliness does help.

As far as the final night of the 1-P, a solution that might have been better but nobody thought of it would have been to allow those who had already paid their re-entries to finish on Wednesday. At 3AM there were no more people for 14.1, I was responsible for the video equipment, and I had to be back in the room at 10AM as previously promised to some players. So I asked the 1-P players to leave.

 

[av84fun]

To all of you people supporting Jay, that is commendable but not very logical. I made no mis-characterizaion of the events. It makes no difference what Jay says. "All contestants, not just a select few should have participated on the 2 tables used during the duration of the contest.
This is a no brainer.

Have you ever been to a pool tournament where all matches were played on the same two tables???

Your whole premise is silly.

Regards,
Jim

 

[av84fun]

It's not a beef, exactly.

For the most part I enjoyed the 1-P shootout. Several of the early tries were captured on video, including 15-and-outs by Allen Hopkins and John Schmidt. We (the guy who supplied the video equipment and I) are in the process of figuring out how to make those and some 14.1 runs available, probably on the AZB TV section. I was happy to run the 1-P for the early birds in the mornings when Jay and Steve had not yet arrived -- the room opened at 10AM.

There was an issue of noise a couple of times. It seemed like some of the people around the back table were being obnoxious on purpose. Maybe it was just their enthusiasm.

It would have been nice if someone had helped to clean the table and balls, but I realize that clean equipment is not the norm, and it was only the examples of Deuel and Schmidt in the past two years of the 14.1 that clued me into the fact that cleanliness does help.

As far as the final night of the 1-P, a solution that might have been better but nobody thought of it would have been to allow those who had already paid their re-entries to finish on Wednesday. At 3AM there were no more people for 14.1, I was responsible for the video equipment, and I had to be back in the room at 10AM as previously promised to some players. So I asked the 1-P players to leave.

Bob certainly doesn't need me to come to his defense...and I am not because I don't know all the facts.

What I DO know is that he sponsored and funded the Straight Pool Challenge out of his own pocket...worked ENDLESS hours to run it and was kind enough to create a women's division and a $1,000 payout for several reasons...not the least of which was the fact that I informed him that Allison Fisher and Kim Shaw, who I sponsored for the DCC would like to play.

Finally, I do know that both Bob and Jay are human beings who were under exceptional strains to manage what they had on their plates and that IF mistakes were made...in the heat of the moment...they were not intentional and should be UTTERLY disregarded.

Stirring up all this controversy about two of the REALLY GOOD GUYS in the pool scene is ridiculous and counter-productive.

Regards,
Jim

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

AUTOMATIC Weapons

It's not a beef, exactly.
So I asked the 1-P players to leave.

You neglected to mention the weapons in your briefcase.
Doug