Jay Helfert resigned as Tourney Director at the US Open

Count me as another supporter of Jay in this incident.

This is the prestigious US Open for God's sake...

Fran no doubt has an interesting different POV, but as others have stated, it is a slippery slope.
 
allen_jr said:
So, a player wins the US Open - twice - earning free entry for life.

For the 40th anniversary, the promoter of the event calls and personally invites said player to come and play. At the same time, the promoter requests that said player present an honorary award - since that player is one of the only ones that competed in the early years, and nearly every year of the event.

Player makes travel plans and arrives, only to find his name is not on board - as expected. Apparently some sort of miscommunication has occurred, and promoter tries to handle things to remedy situation.

As often happens - some sort of mistake has occurred. It's never pleasant, and everyone wants an easy solution - of which, one does not normally exist.

Of course, i'm biased in this discussion - but I know full well that all types of things happen in the course of promoting a big event. Miscommunications occur. You can never make everyone happy - someone will always feel slighted. Any player - at any level - would expect to play in an event that they were personally invited to and made travel plans and incurred expenses to play in. There is seldom an easy solution.

I think it's a far stretch to think this was some sort of "cheat" move to help the player (my father, if that's not obvious yet) advance ... It was merely an attempt to rectify an oversight - one that the event promoter wanted to personally fix.

In fact, it could have been seen (again, I'm biased) as an opportunity to allow the crowd to watch a former champion and hall of famer compete once again.

But instead, everyone is so quick to cry foul and act like the event is rigged or something. A mistake was made and a remedy attempted. It's life, it happens. You can never please everyone, no matter what you do.

Since all previous champions are invited to play for free - for life (to my understanding) wouldn't such a revered tournament director be sure to include those names first on the enrolled list? Or at least double check with his boss, the promoter? I personally handle the "registered players" list for our events every year, and I know the previous year's champion is always first enrolled - until otherwise notified.

And I also know that mistakes happen, and the perils of rectifying them to make everyone happy.
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They had 63 press releases about this event --- online list of all places entered and registered --- so if your dad, you, Barry, Roberta or the janitor missed that Allen wasn't included after all of that, you snooze you lose.

And all the entrees was handled by Pat Fleming this year - or so we were told - so he could answer your question on the player list and who was or was not on it. The TD, being Jay, showed up for the event to RUN the tournament. He can only work with the info he is given. To say he was to make sure all previous winner's were on the list is ludicrous.

Nice attempt to stretch but you pulled a hamstring. Try again.
 
allen_jr said:
So, a player wins the US Open - twice - earning free entry for life.

For the 40th anniversary, the promoter of the event calls and personally invites said player to come and play. At the same time, the promoter requests that said player present an honorary award - since that player is one of the only ones that competed in the early years, and nearly every year of the event.

Player makes travel plans and arrives, only to find his name is not on board - as expected. Apparently some sort of miscommunication has occurred, and promoter tries to handle things to remedy situation.

As often happens - some sort of mistake has occurred. It's never pleasant, and everyone wants an easy solution - of which, one does not normally exist.

Of course, i'm biased in this discussion - but I know full well that all types of things happen in the course of promoting a big event. Miscommunications occur. You can never make everyone happy - someone will always feel slighted. Any player - at any level - would expect to play in an event that they were personally invited to and made travel plans and incurred expenses to play in. There is seldom an easy solution.

I think it's a far stretch to think this was some sort of "cheat" move to help the player (my father, if that's not obvious yet) advance ... It was merely an attempt to rectify an oversight - one that the event promoter wanted to personally fix.

In fact, it could have been seen (again, I'm biased) as an opportunity to allow the crowd to watch a former champion and hall of famer compete once again.

But instead, everyone is so quick to cry foul and act like the event is rigged or something. A mistake was made and a remedy attempted. It's life, it happens. You can never please everyone, no matter what you do.

Since all previous champions are invited to play for free - for life (to my understanding) wouldn't such a revered tournament director be sure to include those names first on the enrolled list? Or at least double check with his boss, the promoter? I personally handle the "registered players" list for our events every year, and I know the previous year's champion is always first enrolled - until otherwise notified.

And I also know that mistakes happen, and the perils of rectifying them to make everyone happy.
Click to expand...

Looks to me like the whole thing is just Barry being Barry. I don't see where your dad had any real part in it. Jay even said he told him he didnt care if he played or not. Barry told him he was in so I dont blame him for playing its not Allen's job to draw the board. He was told he was in and to play and he played. Barry screwed up then presented Jay with a situation that would make him either walk or compromise his principles.

All this rests solely on the guy who runs the show. Jay didnt take the entries and can not reasonably be expected to have any idea of the deals Barry makes. He is presented with a list of entrants and runs the event from there. Hell John Schmidt didnt even know he had a free entry in the event how should Jay know who is in and out unless he is told? Telling him after the draw is what caused the whole mess.

I think the right way to have addressed it was for Barry to apologize to your dad, cover his expenses and otherwise try to make it up to him as best as he can. Instead he does what Barry does and made a mess.
 
watchez said:
They had 63 press releases about this event --- online list of all places entered and registered --- so if your dad, you, Barry, Roberta or the janitor missed that Allen wasn't included after all of that, you snooze you lose.

And all the entrees was handled by Pat Fleming this year - or so we were told - so he could answer your question on the player list and who was or was not on it. The TD, being Jay, showed up for the event to RUN the tournament. He can only work with the info he is given. To say he was to make sure all previous winner's were on the list is ludicrous.

Nice attempt to stretch but you pulled a hamstring. Try again.
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********


Sorry, I don't know who you are because you use a screen name rather than your real name - but, if you've won the US Open, twice, and the promoter of the event knows your cell phone number and he calls you to personally invite you to play in the event - well, then I'd doubt you'd be anxiously checking the online roster 63 times to make sure your name is on there.

You'd probably just show up ready and expecting to play, as promised.
 
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JCIN said:
Looks to me like the whole thing is just Barry being Barry. I don't see where your dad had any real part in it. Jay even said he told him he didnt care if he played or not. Barry told him he was in so I dont blame him for playing its not Allen's job to draw the board. He was told he was in and to play and he played. Barry screwed up then presented Jay with a situation that would make him either walk or compromise his principles.

All this rests solely on the guy who runs the show. Jay didnt take the entries and can not reasonably be expected to have any idea of the deals Barry makes. He is presented with a list of entrants and runs the event from there. Hell John Schmidt didnt even know he had a free entry in the event how should Jay know who is in and out unless he is told? Telling him after the draw is what caused the whole mess.

I think the right way to have addressed it was for Barry to apologize to your dad, cover his expenses and otherwise try to make it up to him as best as he can. Instead he does what Barry does and made a mess.
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"Jay even said he told him he didnt care if he played or not."

Edit for accuracy. Allen told Jay he didn't care if he played or not.
 
FranCrimi said:
Sorry guys. I've been around for a very long time. I ran events, I was on the exec board of the WPA, I've been on both sides --- as a pro player and as the President of the WPBA, just to name a few things. I negotiated the first women's TV tournament. I've seen it all.

The bottom line is that it's not cool to abandon an event right in the middle of it. You give it your absolute best shot to try to understand the situation and maybe even show a little empathy and then try to find a workable solution. From what I can tell, Barry put up a ton of money in this event --- more than Charlie Williams ever laid out of his own pocket. Is it such a stretch to work with someone who may have made an honest mistake?


Talk to people. Get ideas. Everyone is there. Use your brain. Don't walk away in a huff.
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You know you're talking about Barry Behrman, right?
 
allen_jr said:
Sorry, I don't know who you are because you use a screen name rather than your real name - but, if you've won the US Open, twice, and the promoter of the event knows your cell phone number and he calls you to personally invite you to play in the event - well, then I'd doubt you'd be anxiously checking the online roster 63 times to make sure your name is on there.

You'd probably just show up ready and expecting to play, as promised.
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Thats the way I look at it.

Its not like Allen showed up with money in hand at the last minute trying to get in. Promoter asks him to play on a champions entry so he shows up. Only in Barryland could there not be a spot for him.
 
allen_jr said:
Sorry, I don't know who you are because you use a screen name rather than your real name - but, if you've won the US Open, twice, and the promoter of the event knows your cell phone number and he calls you to personally invite you to play in the event - well, then I'd doubt you'd be anxiously checking the online roster 63 times to make sure your name is on there.

You'd probably just show up ready and expecting to play, as promised.
Click to expand...

With all due respect allen jr.....there are few members here that know more about the inside workings of pro pool then JCIN. You would be far better off knowing Justin then Barry in my opinion.
 
Cuebuddy said:
With all due respect allen jr.....there are few members here that know more about the inside workings of pro pool then JCIN. You would be far better off knowing Justin then Barry in my opinion.
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Allen Jr. and I know each other. He was responding to Watchez. I know Watchez too. Both guys are cool as the other side of the pillow.

Edit: Thanks for the kind words by the way Cuebuddy.
 
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allen_jr said:
Sorry, I don't know who you are because you use a screen name rather than your real name - but, if you've won the US Open, twice, and the promoter of the event knows your cell phone number and he calls you to personally invite you to play in the event - well, then I'd doubt you'd be anxiously checking the online roster 63 times to make sure your name is on there.

You'd probably just show up ready and expecting to play, as promised.
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Jr,

Who we are doesn't matter, our opinion should be food for thought.

No one, other than BB, is responsible for this unfortunate situation.

Jay did what he had to do, what would you have done?
 
JCIN said:
Allen Jr. and I know each other. He was responding to Watchez. I know Watchez too. Both guys are cool as the other side of the pillow.

Edit: Thanks for the kind words by the way Cuebuddy.
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^ yes, this is correct. My messages got mixed up because I didn't properly quote what I was relying to... Sorry.

And thanks, haha - I don't think I've ever been given a finer complement 😂
 
JCIN said:
Allen Jr. and I know each other. He was responding to Watchez. I know Watchez too. Both guys are cool as the other side of the pillow.

Edit: Thanks for the kind words by the way Cuebuddy.
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Thank you for the correction Justin, and no disrespect for allen jr or Watchez.:embarrassed2:
 
I'm done commenting in this thread. But the original topic of this thread and the subsequent responses by some who are deemed leaders in the industry - well, this all is a perfect example of why pool hasn't progressed in the past 40 years and now in 2015 has $10,000 - $15,000 added events that are deemed 'Pro' events.
 
JCIN said:
Looks to me like the whole thing is just Barry being Barry. I don't see where your dad had any real part in it. Jay even said he told him he didnt care if he played or not. Barry told him he was in so I dont blame him for playing its not Allen's job to draw the board. He was told he was in and to play and he played. Barry screwed up then presented Jay with a situation that would make him either walk or compromise his principles.

All this rests solely on the guy who runs the show. Jay didnt take the entries and can not reasonably be expected to have any idea of the deals Barry makes. He is presented with a list of entrants and runs the event from there. Hell John Schmidt didnt even know he had a free entry in the event how should Jay know who is in and out unless he is told? Telling him after the draw is what caused the whole mess.

I think the right way to have addressed it was for Barry to apologize to your dad, cover his expenses and otherwise try to make it up to him as best as he can. Instead he does what Barry does and made a mess.
Click to expand...

JCIN nails it.
 
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allen_jr said:
if you've won the US Open, twice, and the promoter of the event knows your cell phone number and he calls you to personally invite you to play in the event - well, then I'd doubt you'd be anxiously checking the online roster 63 times to make sure your name is on there.

You'd probably just show up ready and expecting to play, as promised.
Click to expand...

With all due respect if you have won the US Open twice you also certainly know that being put into a bracket after the bracket has been publicly posted is not ethical or acceptable and destroys the integrity of the event. I know that you already know why but for those who don't the reasons are covered in these two posts:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5338917&postcount=169
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5339016&postcount=181

Unfortunately it was a situation where either your dad gets screwed, or the whole tournament field gets screwed and the integrity of the event itself is completely undermined. And unfortunately for your dad this is one where the only proper choice was that it was your dad that gets screwed. It was up to Barry to make it up to your dad some other way and I agree that he would sure owe your dad for it big time.
 
Charlie Hustle said:
Lol, a little less cliffy?
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Read the last paragraph here:
http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/12330-us-open-karen-corr/

And then read these posts:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5338029&postcount=58
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5338917&postcount=169
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5339016&postcount=181
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5339612&postcount=220
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5339780&postcount=235

The cliff notes for the whole rest of the thread are that you have Allen Hopkins Jr, Fran Crimi, JAM, and another one or two I can't recall on one side agreeing with Barry's position, and the several dozen of everybody else agreeing with Jay's position and both sides making their points back and forth.
 
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