I guess Jim should have sent them Tommarro, because they were not right today.
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Jim Baxter Joint Protectors
- Thread starter Monstermash
- Start date
Clearly most of you have missed the point. My point for the 4th or 5th time is that when they were made incorrectly and I stated as much when Jim sent me the picture, they never should have been sent. He absolutely knew that they were not right, but yet he basically forced me into accepting them because he was tired from his trip and didn't want to bother discussing it at the time.
You guys are really missing the point here. It's not about the fact that they were made wrong. People make mistakes and things happen. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with someone who makes a mistake and then gets informed of the mistake and still ships out the product to the customer.
I know alot of you guys are Jim's friends and you feel you need to stick up for him but really, look at it from my point of view.
Here is the chain of events so there is no confusion. All corrospondence is via PM through AZ.
1 I send a pm to Jim to ask about a custom set of JP's
2 I get a response. Not from Jim, but from Christy, his assistant.
3 Christy and I pm back and forth several times discussing the specs of the JP's and we agree on the specs.
4 I get an email from Jim stating that he "Just got home from a 2000 mile trip and found my JP's on the shipping table. What that tells me, and anyone else with half an ounce of common sense is that he didn't make them, Christy did.
5 I inform Jim that the rings don't look right.
6 He tells me he is shipping them out the following day.
7 I ask why he is shipping them when clearly they are not correct. At this point we do not know who made the mistake, just that a mistake has occured. I don't know if I agreed to the wrong specs, or if they are made incorrectly.
8 Jim tells me to take a look at them when they arrive and then decide if they are wrong.
9 I again inform Jim that I can see from the pics he sent that the rings are not right and not to bother shipping them.
10 Jim's quote: "Just look at them when you get them. I dont' want to discuss this right now as I might say something I'll regret later"
11 I'm a bit miffed at this point so I leave it alone and wait for the JP's to arrive.
12 Three days go by and the JP's arrive. They are shipped to my work and when I open them it obvious that the rings are way too large. I start this thread to let people know that I'm not happy that Jim made me accept them even though it was clear that they were incorrect. Also at this time I don't know the exact measurement of the rings and I accept some responsibility for the mistake. I admit as much in the first post.
13 When I get home, I measure the rings with my calipers. Yes they are much larger than the rings on the cue and I measure them to find they are just shy of .060. Not even close to the .030 we agreed on. At this point, I'm no longer taking responsibility for the mistake. Had the rings been .030 as we discussed they still would have been slightly too thick but I could have lived with them.
Since that point, most of you haven't even bothered to read the intire thread. You have flamed me based on reading the first post where I admit that I agreed to the specs.
The problem here is that they were not made to the specs we agreed on and were shipped regardless. So thats my issue in a nutshell.
As far as what I want Jim to do..... At this point, I want nothing to do with him and I want my money refunded. It's truely unfortunate because I plan on owning many more custom cues in the future and I would have went to Jim to have custom JP's for them made. As Cuemaker03 has stated, I would have praised him up and down for the job had it been done right. Or even if they had not been shipped when the mistake had been noticed, I would have posted mentioning that there was a problem but Jim did the right thing and either remade them or refunded my money. It seems like this is a common occurance as well. Many have stated that he has made a mistake on your JP's but remade them. So what does that tell you? Why are there so many mistakes making them? If I made that many mistakes at work, I'd be out of a job regardless of how many times I fixed the mistakes.
To me, the rude comment regarding not saying something he'll regret later is just bull$hit. Take some responsibility for the fact that they are not correct and don't come on here stating that he can't make them right with the wrong specs as if the whole thing is my fault.
So what do I want? I want an admission of the mistake and I want an apology for the rude "saying something he'll regret" comment , for shipping out the product when he absolutely knew they were not right, and for trying to act like it was all my fault for giving him the wrong specs.
You know whats really funny? If I came on here and complained about another member you all weren't friends with, I wouldn't have been flamed. You are all blinded by the fact that Jim is your friend and act like he has done nothing wrong and it's all my fault. If the situation were reversed and I made something wrong for Jim, it would be all my fault. :angry:
Wrong again. For the record I HAVE read every word of this thread. I am not friends with Jim, and have never even spoke to him.
I know that you have admitted to being very fussy, you own digital calipers, and seem to have plenty of time. Why did you not take the time to measure the rings on your cue BEFORE confirming specs on something that is obviously of great importance to you?
And in the end you want a solution that has already been offered to you BEFORE you started this thread. Why subject everyone to all this? You say "at this point" as if he has done something after you started this thread to change your mind. He has made reasonable options to you before you started this thread, and has not changed anything that I can see.
How can you possibly be upset that you feel people are "flaming" you? This entire thrread that you started was an attempt to flame someone else ( to casue harm personally and professionally). You chose this action and to make it a public matter. You do not get to complain now. Jim is the one who had no choice in this becoming everybodies business. Once again you seem to lack any sense of responsibility. If you feel that this has somehow backfired you have no one to blame but yourself. This is a direct result of your actions. Take some responsibility.
Jw
Tom I have had enough of this crap. You have bent the truth in several ways , trying to make your self look good. In 40 + post you have but 2 or 3 to remotely take your side. If you had sent them back like I asked in the 1st place, and not brought it out in a public forum , we would have no problem , I could have made a set that matched better or refunded your money. I don't feel that way any longer . You stated you want nothing to do with me or my j/ps in the future , well keep that set as a reminder. As we say in the west, "put them where the sun don't shine. " There was no reason to start this thread , except to thro mud. I will never understand why you just did not send them back instead of starting all this crap. I understand you sell and install sterios and speakers, do you install every set yourself or do you have qualified personel to do part of the labor. Have a nice day.
is it not obvious why there are mistakes? its hard to make things match to a picture. consider the fact that he did not make the rings or the cue that he's matching the jp's to, it would be hard for him to get an exact match. then they might show up with a problem or two then ppl let him know and he fixes it. i dont see the problem. if u sent ur cue to him im sure he can match it almost perfectly. but most ppl dont want to send their thousand dollars plus cues out just to get a set of joint protectors matched.
I"ve never met Jim Baxter. I have read this thread and the thread was unnecessary, imo.
If I were in Jim Baxter's shoes I think I probably would have shipped the jp's to see if they'd be ok and if they were not acceptable I would have expected a pm/email and I'd have fixed the problem.
It don't know if that was where Jim's head was but it seems reasonable to me. It's my assumption that was the plan. But... instead of a reasonable response you blew a gasket, lost it, had a fit complete with stomping of the feet, pounding on the table and the throwing of a shoe. You might be right about the product being wrong but your unreasonably harsh response has lost you the respect of many.. as you have noted.
If I were Jim Baxter at this point I'd reach the same conclusion he has; I'd be done talking... the movie would be over....... 'breaks the cue in half... hands it back to mmash.... turns his back.... walks out of the ph'... cut! That's a wrap!
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I have not bent the truth. The truth is simply this...
I told you they were wrong BEFORE you shipped them. You didn't want to deal with it because you just got home from a trip so you sent them anyway.
They were NOT made to the specs that Christy and I agreed on. So where exactly am I bending the truth? If anything, you're full of $hit. You never told me to ship them back until you saw this thread. I sent you a pm stating I wasn't happy because they were made incorrectly and you never responded. In fact you still haven't responded. Thats a great way to do business.
The reason for the thread was a REVIEW of the crappy way you treated me and are still treating me. From all the others who have posted and stated that you made theirs wrong and and then had to go back and fix them, I can't understand how you are still in business. Why would someone want to have you make something just so it can be wrong and have to wait while you remake them?
The only thing that matters is that you should have NEVER SHIPPED THEM WHEN I TOLD YOU THEY WERE NOT CORRECT.
Did you really think I was going to be happy? Regardless of whether I shipped them back or not I still would have had a problem. It was the way I was treated which is the basis of this thread. You may not have had one, but I was still going to be unhappy.
One thing I notice in all of this is that you NEVER refute the fact that you shipped them after I told you they were incorrect. Because you know you are wrong and you keep avoiding that fact like the plague. You have also never mentioned that fact that you gave me that attitude about not wanting to say anything that you would regret later. Again, you are avoiding that because you know it to be true.
Don't worry about the refund. I'll just contact Paypal and have them refund my money.
And don't worry, when I receive my refund I'll ship your shitty joint protectors back to you so you can't say that I stole them.
If you would have used only half the energy to ship them back than you have to drag his rep through the mud in a public forum, this would have all been resolved. What you do not seem to realize is that you yourself, by your own hand, have done damage to your own rep...likely more than you have done to Jim's.
Best of luck with that cue sale!
Lisa
Best of luck with that cue sale!
Lisa
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I just come here for the pissin contests.
Tap Tap Tap. I'll do business with Mr. Baxter but absolutely want nothing to do with mmash. Imo he's shown himself to be unreasonable... and I'm being much more kind in print than the words that are flowing through my head but not finding expression in a public forum... as he should have been.
Hey Mr Baxter
You know, all this has made me realize ONE THING:
I could really use a nice set of j/ps myself!
So Jim, contact me and let's talk about a 2 pc set. Ebony/ ivory with a notched diamond inlay (uni loc pin)
I am serious. I just thought that this thread was a convenient way to get a hold of you.
Thanks for this thread, it has prompted me to place an order that I have been putting off for a bit.:thumbup:
Jason.
You know, all this has made me realize ONE THING:
I could really use a nice set of j/ps myself!
So Jim, contact me and let's talk about a 2 pc set. Ebony/ ivory with a notched diamond inlay (uni loc pin)
I am serious. I just thought that this thread was a convenient way to get a hold of you.
Thanks for this thread, it has prompted me to place an order that I have been putting off for a bit.:thumbup:
Jason.
Monster is trying to make apoint. His problem is not that they were wrong, it that he told Jim not to ship and he just shipped them anyway after being told they were wrong. He also stated that Jim had some else make them. A few people have come forward to say Jim has had to correct several sets on joint protectors already. What monster is saying is why let them out the door is they are not right in the first place and it seems as few have gotten the point. If Monster gad simply posted a picture of the j/p's and let everyone else review them people would have said who made those? and you should ask for a refund. Notice how Jim asked about Monsters car sterio installs? Jim was eluding to the fact that he did not make the J/P's and it seems as no one has caught on to that.
I don't think he was " aluding " to anything. I think he openly stated that he does not do all of the work in his shop. I did not find this as something to be shocked and dismayed about. Notice, I said HIS shop, I was alluding to the fact that it is his business and gets to run it as he sees fit. Including hiring and overseeing the work as he sees fit.
My truck says "ford" on it, and yet I was not suprised to find out that Mr Henry Ford did not make my truck. He did not even supervise the making of my truck. Do you think I should ask for a refund based on this?
Just about every SUCCESSFUL business will grow and have the need to hire more people to meet the demands of its customers. This is a sign of success, NOT failure.
This business is of a custom nature, and not every order will turn out perfect. What is important is that in the end it will be made right. While I see that the jps are not a perfect match, I do think that there are some out there that might be okay with them. Maybe Jim was just taking an off chance that he may be okay with them. He did not have the cue, he was going off of a picture. The worst that could happen was that he would have to make them over, or give a refund. Rather than toss them in the garbage, just see if they may be acceptable.
The only loss in this thinking could be a few dollars in shipping. I do really find it hard to beleive that someone who is willing to spend money on high end cues and is also willing to spend more on custom j/ps is really sweating $10.
Tell you what Monster: Since you have repeatedly stated that the shipping is the whole issue( and not any of the other things that you have mentioned), If you promise to not mention anything more about this crap in this thread or any other, I will gladly refund your shipping personally! Do not reply in this thread. Pm me and I will paypal you a refund of your return shipping.
Jw
About N/S Rings
I got no say in this..
This is purely for informational purposes..
So, please, don't comment...
Sometimes, when I start turning down the caps to the final finished diameter, the Nickel Silver Ring would "Flair" or become thicker because
the cutter is doing more rubbing than cutting..(Dull cutting edge, wrong tool height, too much heat causing the metal to become "Hardened-like", etc.)
The result is that a 1/32" thick ring becomes .045" or sometimes thicker.
I know what size Ring was installed.. Just that it "Flaired" and became thicker looking..
Alton - Cue Caps
I got no say in this..
This is purely for informational purposes..
So, please, don't comment...
Sometimes, when I start turning down the caps to the final finished diameter, the Nickel Silver Ring would "Flair" or become thicker because
the cutter is doing more rubbing than cutting..(Dull cutting edge, wrong tool height, too much heat causing the metal to become "Hardened-like", etc.)
The result is that a 1/32" thick ring becomes .045" or sometimes thicker.
I know what size Ring was installed.. Just that it "Flaired" and became thicker looking..
Alton - Cue Caps
Why is it that when someone posts a bad review, the poster is flamed more than the offender. This started out as a review of Monstermash's experience with Jim Baxter. Because Jim is in better standing with this forum, Monstermash has been drug through the mud by other veteran/respected members.
Actually I feel completely the opposite.
I like hearing the good reviews along with the bad reviews. I am happy to see people step out when they have had a bad experience. To be honest, it helps the rest of us make better, more informed choices. What would have happened if no one brought out info on Eddie Wheat or Eason Cues? Many more would have been ripped off. Im NOT saying Jim ripped off Monstermash; but it could have been handled better. Probably by both ends.
Josh
ridewiththewind said:
Actually I feel completely the opposite.
I like hearing the good reviews along with the bad reviews. I am happy to see people step out when they have had a bad experience. To be honest, it helps the rest of us make better, more informed choices. What would have happened if no one brought out info on Eddie Wheat or Eason Cues? Many more would have been ripped off. Im NOT saying Jim ripped off Monstermash; but it could have been handled better. Probably by both ends.
Josh
Lol! Seriously??? You can't possibly believe this drivel?
What if you ordered a custom cue from Joel Hercek and his daughter in law made it, sent you pics of it and it was not what you ordered and then shipped it anyway. Would YOU be happy?
A CUSTOM order is just that and you expect it to be how it was ordered. If I wanted a set of JP"s that didn't match I could have bought something, anything else. But the fact is I wanted a CUSTOM set that matched my cue and I didn't get them, did I?
My issue is NOT the cost of the shipping. My issue was they were shipped when he was told they were not right and was rude to me about it when I suggested it wasn't a good idea to do so. I was never rude or disrespectful in any way to Jim for him to act the way he did.
If someone can tell me why it was a good idea to ship them when I stated they were wrong, I'd be more than happy to listen. This is the point you all have been missing.
It's funny to me that everyone is taking Jim's side. If it happened to you it would be a whole different story.
If you check my itrader comments, you'll notice that most people I have bought things from have stated that I do business with a no nonsense approach. That is exactly true. If I make a deal with someone, I do what I say I'm going to do. Is it unreasonable to ask that the person I'm doing business with do the same?
Some of you have posted that I have done damage to my rep for this thread. Please explain this to me because it doesn't make sense to me. Why is it wrong that I wrote a truthful review about an experience I had because I was treated poorly and I didn't get what I paid for and I'm the bad guy?
What if the thread was about some new member here? What if I bought a cue from them and what they sent didn't match the description. You would all be jumping on the new member and I'd be the hero for letting everyone know that they aren't trustworthy and how bad of a seller they are for not properly describing the cue.
The ONLY difference is that Jim has been here for a while and he has done some work for some of you. Those facts do not excuse him from making mistakes and not honoring what he said he would do. All his *****ing and moaning about me is just his attempt to mask his ineptness.
He has stated that I "bent the truth" but he has yet to explain just how I did that. Everything I have stated is factual.
For any of you who think I'm wrong and would like to discuss this in further detail feel free to pm me and I'll give you my phone number so we can discuss this personally.
Thank you for the input Alton. As I mentioned several times, it was not that fact that they were not as I expected. I can deal with issues whether they are operator mistake or just part of the manufacturing process.
I will pose this question to you: If you made a set of JP's for a customer and sent a picture of the finished product to them and they stated they were not correct, would you still ship them to the customer?
Thank you Josh. At least a few people understand what the purpose of this thread was.
i am sure jim is making this right with you why keep beating a dead horse
I have read this complete thread with a lot of interest. Following the premise of full disclosure, lest I be charged with bias, I have purchased a set of JPs from Jim and the product was as described and the transaction went smooth.
I also believe that negative reviews should be posted however I also believe the person should be given an opportunity to "make it right" before posting a negative review. That being said my take on this is Monstermash determined from the pictures alone the JPs were not what he wanted. I tend to agree they should not have been shipped until this was resolved. Once the product goes out the door it makes it a lot more difficult to resolve these situations. While I may or may not have handled the situation differently I believe that Monstermash has a legitimate complaint and that he was attempting to voice that complaint as a warning to others, not specifically to trash Jim.
I also believe that negative reviews should be posted however I also believe the person should be given an opportunity to "make it right" before posting a negative review. That being said my take on this is Monstermash determined from the pictures alone the JPs were not what he wanted. I tend to agree they should not have been shipped until this was resolved. Once the product goes out the door it makes it a lot more difficult to resolve these situations. While I may or may not have handled the situation differently I believe that Monstermash has a legitimate complaint and that he was attempting to voice that complaint as a warning to others, not specifically to trash Jim.