Jim Baxter Joint Protectors

Monstermash said:
Ummm.... Hello! I sent you a pm yesterday to tell you I was sending them back and you never responded. :confused:
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What was there for me to say, looks like you said enough. I asked for you to send them , you said you were sending them back, nuf said, send them back.!!!! Jim
 
Jim Baxter said:
What was there for me to say, looks like you said enough. I asked for you to send them , you said you were sending them back, nuf said, send them back.!!!! Jim
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Jimbo, get back to makin' my jp's and quit responding to this thread that's going nowhere! I got 2 more sets that are going to need to be made when you get back from your next trip!

Jim
 
By your own admission, you approved the specs...you need to take ownership for that.

As to veneer colors matching or not matching...I do not understand that when one is ordering a higher end jp, and want/need the veneer colors to match as close as humanly possible, they do not contact the cue maker. Many keep records/specs of the cues they have made in the past, and could likely provide not only the veneer color, but generally the supplier used. Then you could go directly to the supplier, and see if they still have some of the same dye batch left (often done in large quantities) and get it to your jp maker. It's called being pro-active...not to mention, it helps out the jp maker to get you exactly what you want. Asking someone to get an exact color match from pics provided via the internet is darn near impossible...as everyones' monitors display colors differently.

When I was having my Prather blank finished out to a cue, and wanted to have more of the blue veneer included in the rings to help balance the design, I contacted Prather, and ordered several sheets from the same batch, and had them shipped to the cue maker....perfect match!

While the rings are a bit thicker....they still look pretty darn good, from the pics provided.

Jim...I am guessing that the reason he is hedging sending them back is because he has the cue currently up for sale anyways:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=147908

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
By your own admission, you approved the specs...you need to take ownership for that.

As to veneer colors matching or not matching...I do not understand that when one is ordering a higher end jp, and want/need the veneer colors to match as close as humanly possible, they do not contact the cue maker. Many keep records/specs of the cues they have made in the past, and could likely provide not only the veneer color, but generally the supplier used. Then you could go directly to the supplier, and see if they still have some of the same dye batch left (often done in large quantities) and get it to your jp maker. It's called being pro-active...not to mention, it helps out the jp maker to get you exactly what you want. Asking someone to get an exact color match from pics provided via the internet is darn near impossible...as everyones' monitors display colors differently.

When I was having my Prather blank finished out to a cue, and wanted to have more of the blue veneer included in the rings to help balance the design, I contacted Prather, and ordered several sheets from the same batch, and had them shipped to the cue maker....perfect match!

While the rings are a bit thicker....they still look pretty darn good, from the pics provided.

Jim...I am guessing that the reason he is hedging sending them back is because he has the cue currently up for sale anyways:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=147908

Lisa
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Lisa you are right on all counts. I have suggested to many j/p buyers to go to the cue maker , he has everything to match the cue. But a lot of cue makers want notheing to do with j/ps. Thanks Jim
 
I think the OP is over-reacting here. The product is a little out of spec, it happens. You told Jim about it, and he asked you to send them back. He WILL make it right if you just send them back. (Assuming that you haven't ticked him off with this thread . . . ) Stop typing and go to the post office! That's the only way this will get resolved.

I find it commendible that he has re-done multiple sets for others (including myself) when the customer wasn't completely satisfied. That's all you can expect a good businessman to do, and that is what he is offering.
Mr H
 
yea jim did the same for me. the set for my carmeli broke in the mail. one piece pretty much got destroyed and he made a brand new one and shipped it to me free of charge even tho there was no insurance on it.

we have another set in progress right now thats turning out real nice.
 
Nuts

You must be crazy, attacking one of the most respected people on AZ. Everyone knows I never get involved in these things, but you are not only talking about an honorable man, but my friend. He is nothing if not highly professional. I know that if you spent $15 for shipping it was your idea. You are new to AZ billiards and you picked one of the wrong people to jump on. He told you he was going to refund your money, what do you want? For him to bow from the ankles. I have bought dozens of sets from Jim and have never had a harsh word come from his lips!
TOMMIE
 
ridewiththewind said:
By your own admission, you approved the specs...you need to take ownership for that.



Jim...I am guessing that the reason he is hedging sending them back is because he has the cue currently up for sale anyways:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=147908

Lisa
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You should read the entire thread before making a statement like this.

Initially I stated that I approved the specs but they were not made to those specs. So how do I need to take ownership for directions that were not followed?

Yes the cue is for sale. Check the thread and nowhere do I mention the JP's are included. Why would I want to keep them when they don't match? Why were they shipped in the first place when they were wrong?

The reason I haven't sent them back yet is I had to work today. I can't just leave whenever I want to run to the post office. If tomorrow wasn't a holiday, they would be on their way then. But under the circumstances it'll have to wait until Monday.
 
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tommie1351 said:
You must be crazy, attacking one of the most respected people on AZ. Everyone knows I never get involved in these things, but you are not only talking about an honorable man, but my friend. He is nothing if not highly professional. I know that if you spent $15 for shipping it was your idea. You are new to AZ billiards and you picked one of the wrong people to jump on. He told you he was going to refund your money, what do you want? For him to bow from the ankles. I have bought dozens of sets from Jim and have never had a harsh word come from his lips!
TOMMIE
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I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I respect that you want to stick up for your friend, I would do the same thing. But in turn, I would look at it objectively and if I thought my friend may be wrong, I would say something to him.

And as far as being one of the most respected members, I have had about 10 emails from people asking why I even ordered from him. Not to mention I think he may have pissed a few people off with his free joint protector thread. I personally thought it was funny and got the Abbott and Costello reference right away but judging by some of the responses I don't think everyone else found it amusing.

The problem is that no one reads the entire thread before jumping in with their opinion.
As I mentioned before, it's not the fact that they were made wrong. It was the statement he made regarding not "wanting to say something he'll regret later" that has me heated and because I told Jim they were wrong and he forced me into letting him ship them anyway.
The statment was made when I suggested that they were not made correctly, as if I insulted him or something. I could tell the rings were not right from the pic. I didn't know how far off they were until they got here.
The $15 for shipping is $10 for priority mail from Jim to me (Can you say MARKUP!!!) and then an additional $5 for me to send them back. He actually charged me an additional $5 for priority mail when priority mail is only $5. I had already paid for shipping in the price of the jp's.


Please try to use some common sense here. If you ordered a red car from your local dealership and they saleperson sent you an email telling you it was ready with a picture of the car and it was blue, would you run right down to the dealership and pick it up? Of course not. You would want them to correct the mistake before taking delivery. Thats all I wanted. Shipping the jp's to me was a complete waste of time and money. IMO Jim was just hoping I would get them and be ok with it. Why else would he ship them to me knowing they were wrong?

Can you explain this to me?
 
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Buster8001 said:
I'd need to see better pics of the JPs. To me they don't look to far off. I would say you were being a little nit-picky. But it is your money, and I know what it is like to know something isn't right and always think about it every time you look at it.

That being said, I would be more concerned about the comment "say something that he would regret later". If that truly is what was said, that would have stopped the deal for me right there. And why ship them if you know the customer isn't happy, regardless of how nit-picky they might be. That just puts something they don't like right in their faces; and possibly makes the situation worse.

Josh
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Someone understands my point. :thumbup:
 
Jim is a very honorable guy he asked you to send them back this whole thing never needed to be posted jim your a great guy to deal with always ....lee
 
Why do you feel it necessary to air your dirty laundry on a public forum? To me, it seems as if Jim Baxter is trying to rectify the problem. How many times have you tried contacting him AFTER you received the jp's? Why are you complaining about $15 for shipping? That is peanuts in the world of custom cues and their maintenance. I am not trying to stick up for anyone, I am just asking questions on an open forum.

Thank you in advance,
Chris
 
I sent Jim a photo of a cue that need J/P With the picture , I gave him the dimensions of the joint and thread type and the thread length.
What I recieved back was very good and I have no problem with them.
A picture with a scale that is in focus will also help when there is detail and the cue can not be delivered for a closer measure.
When details become small or thin, as a percentage of size .003 can seem like alot.Also the picture really needs to be taken from a distance and zoomed in to reduce parrellax errors.
Neil
 
Monstermash said:
I did approve of the specs but after receiving them today, they are not even made to the specs we agreed on.

The black ring was supposed to be .015 and it is. The silver ring was supposed to be .030 and it's .060.

Additionally the veneer colors are not correct. I never agreed to double red, double brown, and then a white. They were supposed to be Red, Tan, and then Maple. Also the tops were supposed to be white per a picture Christy sent me as a sample.

Here are some pics that will shed some light on how far off they are.

BaxterJPs060.jpg


BaxterJPs.jpg


Initially when I told Jim they were not correct I wanted a refund. But then I got to thinking...... Why would I want to spend money on shipping and still have no product?

I just sent him another email with all my concerns and asked him to make another set to the correct specs.
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Monstermash

I think the you need to have someone else make your measurements. It is pretty obvious that your calipers are wider than the ring you are trying to measure, and they aren't even close to straight either.

I think your cue has .015" silver rings in it, and you called them .030". He built the rings to .030" and you are upset at him about it. You should try building something to tolerances under a few thousandths from a picture! It can't be done reliably. Also, the decorative ring on your protectors looks correct to me. It does use veneer that is a little thicker than what you have on your cue, but again, we are back to the measurements. Did you specify that the veneer in the decorative ring was made with .020" veneer? I think he used what is commonly available which is .032" typically.

Just send the protectors back to him to fix like he said he would and then delete this thread!
 
IMHO

I think it all comes down to one thing.....

MonsterMash said that the protectors were not right before they were sent. That should have stopped the shipping of them right then and there.

If the customer was not satisfied and he had not even seen the JP's yet, there should have been more communication to make sure they were right on the front end.

Shipping them to MonsterMash was not the right thing to do.

To make the customer happy, Jim should pay to have them shipped back to him, fix/remake them, then pay to ship them back to MonsterMash.

Why should MonsterMash be out more money to correct a manufacturer mistake? He should not be the one paying out of his pocket to fix that mistake.

The whole idea of Jim being honorable has never been called into question.
You can be as honorable as the day is long and still screw up. That is what has happened here. Jim screwed up. His honor is still intact as it was never called into question.

Those of you that are bashing MonsterMash because he is NEW are barking up the wrong tree. We were all new here at one time or another. He tried to fix this issue on the front end and Jim shipped them without customer approval.

The issue falls back on Jim unfortunately, being the seller.
 
Monstermash said:
You should read the entire thread before making a statement like this.

Initially I stated that I approved the specs but they were not made to those specs. So how do I need to take ownership for directions that were not followed?

Yes the cue is for sale. Check the thread and nowhere do I mention the JP's are included. Why would I want to keep them when they don't match? Why were they shipped in the first place when they were wrong?

The reason I haven't sent them back yet is I had to work today. I can't just leave whenever I want to run to the post office. If tomorrow wasn't a holiday, they would be on their way then. But under the circumstances it'll have to wait until Monday.
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Okay , I think you are way overreacting here. You INITIALLY said you approved the specs and they were made to those specs. You being as nit picky as you have admitted to being, why would you approve specs that you were not sure if they were right or not? You only checked dimensions AFTER the jps were made and shipped. So, you did not bother to check untill it was too late. So it is true that you approved specs without knowing what you approved, and you still take NO ownership? :confused:

Then he offers a refund or to make them again. What else would make you happy? This is fantastic customer service from where I sit.

It is very obvious that Jim goes through a lot of trouble to make his product the best he can given the circumstances. Also, when things do not work out perfectly offers very reasonable options to correct it.

You could not be bothered to check the specs for your cue knowing how picky you are. It is okay to have him go through the effort to make them BEFORE you bother to double check anything. Then it is okay for him to REMAKE them for free, but you can't be put out to ship them. Who is being unreasonable?

You chose to make this a public affair ( very unwise in my opinion). So you have to accept any public opinions that are offered.

By the way, I do see the difference you mentioned, but I think they still look great.

Jim already took full responsibility for the jps when he offered a refund or a replacement. You will still not take any responsibility for the deal at all.

If I were Jim, I would refund your money, and refuse to make anything for you at any price because of this unfounded thread. Too bad Jim has already proven he is more professional than I would be in this situation.

Jw
 
SoonerFan said:
Monstermash

I think the you need to have someone else make your measurements. It is pretty obvious that your calipers are wider than the ring you are trying to measure, and they aren't even close to straight either.

I think your cue has .015" silver rings in it, and you called them .030". He built the rings to .030" and you are upset at him about it. You should try building something to tolerances under a few thousandths from a picture! It can't be done reliably. Also, the decorative ring on your protectors looks correct to me. It does use veneer that is a little thicker than what you have on your cue, but again, we are back to the measurements. Did you specify that the veneer in the decorative ring was made with .020" veneer? I think he used what is commonly available which is .032" typically.

Just send the protectors back to him to fix like he said he would and then delete this thread!
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The rings are .060. It's just the angle of the picture that makes it look like it's not. Have you ever tried holding a Nikon D80 in one hand and trying to hold a set pf calipers in the other while in front of the thing you are measureing. It's a litte difficult. :p


And PLEASE, for those of you who keep stating that I approved the dimensions, read the entire thread. Yes I DID approve the specs.BUT THEY WERE NOT MADE TO THE SPECS I APPROVED!!!!
 
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monstermash

I can clearly see black on each side of the silver ring, and that is between your caliper jaws! Just take a look at the picture.

I can't tell you what thickness the rings are, but I can tell you that they are not .060". Your caliper shows .060" and this is obviously larger than your rings. I would guess that they are much closer to .030" than .060" if your caliper is zeroed properly.
 
Monstermash; What in the world do you want? What do you hope to achieve with all this hell raising? What is your goal? What do you want Baxter to do?
 
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