Jimmy Fusco vs Allen Hopkins.

[measureman]

I just want to say another thing.
For those that never met Jimmy Fusco I don't think among the top players of his era or even now that there has been a nicer person or a better representative of the game.
Some might have been or still are his equal at this but i doubt any were better.

 

[Wedge]

Yep

I just want to say another thing.
For those that never met Jimmy Fusco I don't think among the top players of his era or even now that there has been a nicer person or a better representative of the game.
Some might have been or still are his equal at this but i doubt any were better.

Jimmy Fusco is still very close friends with Jim Rempe and they talk weekly if not more. Rempe is also a true gentleman as well as a credit to our sport!

Wedge

 

[CJ Wiley]

44 in one pocket might qualify as "egotistical"

Sorry you feel that way.....

If you noticed, I gave Allen credit for showing me the break I use to run 15 balls in one pocket in prop. bets.....that's the "link" you over looked.

It's really not that big of a deal running 29 balls in one pocket, if it was for "ego" I would have ran another one.....44 in one pocket might qualify as "egotistical" :groucho:

Was about Fusco and Hopkins not about you posting a link to your 29 ball run to satisfy your insecurity/ego!

Wedge

 

[richiebalto]

Sorry you feel that way.....

If you noticed, I gave Allen credit for showing me the break I use to run 15 balls in one pocket in prop. bets.....that's the "link" you over looked.

It's really not that big of a deal running 29 balls in one pocket, if it was for "ego" I would have ran another one.....44 in one pocket might qualify as "egotistical" :groucho:

I don't care what anybody calls it, I call it AWESOM!

 

[phillyviper1]

Some people talk as if they know these guys and really know there true talents. I personally know both of them very well and know how good they both are. I have seen and been around them at there best jimmy is like family to me and allen is just the same. Allen has many world championships to show and has proven himself threw tournament.Jimmy on the other hand was a gambler and didnt care much for trophy and fame. With that being said jimmy Iis the better one pocket player and and allen is better 14.1 player but all around player im going to say that there is no way to determine that. But I will say this. If uncle jimmy didnt have back problems and was able to continue playing he world have been the greatest player Ever. He has that much raw talent. PERIOD.

 

[Black-Balled]

I second this^^^

Just to add to your post, I recently played Allen (recently as in, just a few months ago - not long) when I was fortunately enough to get to play him some one pocket at his house. Just to help frame the story a little bit, we had just finish about 27 holes of golf where I took somewhat of a beating. When we were in the club house, I told Allen that my one pocket game was a LOT better than the last time we played (that story was embarrassing, but that's another thread). I continued to tell him that I'm sending multiple balls to my pocket on single shots at times and I'm setting up million-man-marches in front of my hole fairly quick now...unlike before.

He took a slow sip of his beer and said something like, "You wanna play some uno pockeeto brothaaaaah?"

Well, of course, I did and I kept my pool cue in the trunk JUST in case something might happen pool-wise.

I forget exactly what happened, but he shot out of my break somehow, with some bullsh1t god-shot that I probably would consider a flier, but he smoothed it in and ticked into the rack about 5-times to loosen up one or two balls at a time and continued to run 8-and-out.

I told him to "keep going" because he looked like he was playing one-pocket straight pool and I literally couldn't believe my eyes. When it was over, he ran all 15 into his pocket during the first game, after being golfed-up and beered-up all day.

I literally couldn't believe it and told him that was quite impressive for a geriatric pool player who prob qualifies for the $2 Denny's lunches on the senior menu. I think I even told him he's lucky he can walk, let alone golf and play pool.

He said something like, "I'm feeling pretty loosey-goosey" as he threw some balls on the table and rifled them in.

Shit, I was drinking-up his wine (which was also loosey-goosey smooth) so I told him I wanted to see if he could do it again. I racked up the balls and made sure they were tight and all and told him to break it like DCC 1-hole challenge (basically, outside instead of inside english). He did and knocked a few balls out, leaving about 11/12 balls still mucked, while getting on top.

Well, he did and continued to run all 15 balls in his hole....again. It was the sickest display of one pocket I had EVER seen. He ran 30 balls in one hole, basically from two full-rack mucks, in one try, cold, after playing golf all day.

Of course, on the way home, I called up everyone I knew to tell them the story since I was FLUSTERED. I literally thought I had seen a UFO, I was that rattled.

I want to add that his home table is a 9' Diamond and plays really tough, definitely not a Gandy or wide-open 8'er or something.

That said, I really, really, really respect Jimmy's game -- he's a champion at every game. I would still take Hopkins over Fusco at any game, whether they played in 1977 or today.

I think a LOT of people WAY under-rate Allen's game because of the appearance of his stroke. His stroke is devastating in every game and he's THE MOST intelligent pool player I've ever met/played.

Well,shit...I am not sure what you are selling, but I will buy it. That's a helluva write up!

One thing I never understood about Allen though: for such a great player, he sure is a pretty awful commentator. He fails to see obvious/ basic shots with alarming regularity.

 

[richiebalto]

Some people talk as if they know these guys and really know there true talents. I personally know both of them very well and know how good they both are. I have seen and been around them at there best jimmy is like family to me and allen is just the same. Allen has many world championships to show and has proven himself threw tournament.Jimmy on the other hand was a gambler and didnt care much for trophy and fame. With that being said jimmy Iis the better one pocket player and and allen is better 14.1 player but all around player im going to say that there is no way to determine that. But I will say this. If uncle jimmy didnt have back problems and was able to continue playing he world have been the greatest player Ever. He has that much raw talent. PERIOD.

Viper, very nice post, when you see Jimmy again please ask him what he remembers about playing Cigar Tom Vanover in Baltimore.

They played atleased 2 times here in Baltimore in the 80s.

Jimmy trapped Tom into playing back pocket 9 ball and I believe this mite of been the last time they played!

But they played even 9 ball a couple of times before that back pocket game.

 

[62Stratus]

From the York Daily Record Dec. 18, 1987. At that point in time it was a slight edge to Allen.

 

[62Stratus]

York Daily Record Dec. 20, 1987

 

[grindz]

I’ve tried to copy Allen’s stroke a few times, but just can’’t
Seem to come close. I think it’s classic, and am surprised
That no one else has seen its merits, and copied it. I do see
A little of it from a couple of pros, but not a copy.

Seems the results would have led to some emulations.

Td

 

[RailBanger]

I’ve tried to copy Allen’s stroke a few times, but just can’’t
Seem to come close. I think it’s classic, and am surprised
That no one else has seen its merits, and copied it. I do see
A little of it from a couple of pros, but not a copy.

Seems the results would have led to some emulations.

Td

Justin Whitehead's stroke is very similar.

 

[DecentShot]

Is AZ now allowing free advertising on your threads For companies you are affiliated with? When you go to the website it says sponsored by CJ Wiley...are you that hard up for attention and/or cash!

Really

Why are you unnecessarily correcting a legend?

 

[book collector]

I second this^^^

Just to add to your post, I recently played Allen (recently as in, just a few months ago - not long) when I was fortunately enough to get to play him some one pocket at his house. Just to help frame the story a little bit, we had just finish about 27 holes of golf where I took somewhat of a beating. When we were in the club house, I told Allen that my one pocket game was a LOT better than the last time we played (that story was embarrassing, but that's another thread). I continued to tell him that I'm sending multiple balls to my pocket on single shots at times and I'm setting up million-man-marches in front of my hole fairly quick now...unlike before.

He took a slow sip of his beer and said something like, "You wanna play some uno pockeeto brothaaaaah?"

Well, of course, I did and I kept my pool cue in the trunk JUST in case something might happen pool-wise.

I forget exactly what happened, but he shot out of my break somehow, with some bullsh1t god-shot that I probably would consider a flier, but he smoothed it in and ticked into the rack about 5-times to loosen up one or two balls at a time and continued to run 8-and-out.

I told him to "keep going" because he looked like he was playing one-pocket straight pool and I literally couldn't believe my eyes. When it was over, he ran all 15 into his pocket during the first game, after being golfed-up and beered-up all day.

I literally couldn't believe it and told him that was quite impressive for a geriatric pool player who prob qualifies for the $2 Denny's lunches on the senior menu. I think I even told him he's lucky he can walk, let alone golf and play pool.

He said something like, "I'm feeling pretty loosey-goosey" as he threw some balls on the table and rifled them in.

Shit, I was drinking-up his wine (which was also loosey-goosey smooth) so I told him I wanted to see if he could do it again. I racked up the balls and made sure they were tight and all and told him to break it like DCC 1-hole challenge (basically, outside instead of inside english). He did and knocked a few balls out, leaving about 11/12 balls still mucked, while getting on top.

Well, he did and continued to run all 15 balls in his hole....again. It was the sickest display of one pocket I had EVER seen. He ran 30 balls in one hole, basically from two full-rack mucks, in one try, cold, after playing golf all day.

Of course, on the way home, I called up everyone I knew to tell them the story since I was FLUSTERED. I literally thought I had seen a UFO, I was that rattled.

I want to add that his home table is a 9' Diamond and plays really tough, definitely not a Gandy or wide-open 8'er or something.

That said, I really, really, really respect Jimmy's game -- he's a champion at every game. I would still take Hopkins over Fusco at any game, whether they played in 1977 or today.

I think a LOT of people WAY under-rate Allen's game because of the appearance of his stroke. His stroke is devastating in every game and he's THE MOST intelligent pool player I've ever met/played.

I always thought Alum Hopkins was a very good player.
What size were the pockets and did he use an aiming system?

 

[DecentShot]

I always thought Alum Hopkins was a very good player.
What size were the pockets and did he use an aiming system?

One of the greats, and a hall of famer. He never needed an aiming system. From the time he could see the table, he says he just knew how to make the balls.

 

[pt109]

Justin Whitehead's stroke is very similar.

Grady Matthews’ stroke was as compact as Allen Hopkins’....
...on the snooker side, Fred Davis’ approach was similar.
Buddy Hall could hit a ball like that if the shot demanded it.

...akin to Bruce Lee’s one inch punch

 

[Michael Andros]

One of the greats, and a hall of famer. He never needed an aiming system. From the time he could see the table, he says he just knew how to make the balls.

45 years ago ( the Golden Age of American pool ) no world-class player had an "aiming system". Now, that said, how they went about making balls could certainly have been "analyzed" and called anything someone wanted to call it. But not ONE top player circa 70 - 75 ever spoke about their "aiming system". They just made balls. Lots of balls.

Buddy was really one of the first to talk about a "system" he came up with and that was the "clock" system for using english. I believe that was somewhere back @ 80? Maybe? Maybe later. And that wasn't really even a system, per se, rather, a way to more simply explain to beginners where to hit the CB to get position on any given shot.

If anyone knows more about any of this, feel free to chime in.

 

[manopr350]

Allen Hopkins

Another “detail” in Mr. Hopkins game was and still is.., that he plays with his own money.
There are great players that will never gamble unless they have a backer. Allen, in his prime, will play anyone for any amount of money. He knew how good he was and nobody could outthink him in any game. The smartest player alive. I am also bias because he is a very good friend of mine.

 

[sjm]

45 years ago ( the Golden Age of American pool ) no world-class player had an "aiming system". Now, that said, how they went about making balls could certainly have been "analyzed" and called anything someone wanted to call it. But not ONE top player circa 70 - 75 ever spoke about their "aiming system". They just made balls. Lots of balls.

Buddy was really one of the first to talk about a "system" he came up with and that was the "clock" system for using english. I believe that was somewhere back @ 80? Maybe? Maybe later. And that wasn't really even a system, per se, rather, a way to more simply explain to beginners where to hit the CB to get position on any given shot.

If anyone knows more about any of this, feel free to chime in.

Generally correct, Mike, but I'd argue that Ray Martin, who introduced his "ghost ball" concepts circa 1973-74, was the first to offer a documented aiming system. As Freddie the Beard once noted, however, the ghost ball system, which he saw as an important step forward, was slightly deficient in that it failed to account for collision induced throw.

Buddy's clock system, to my recollection, got it's first real publicity in the mid-1980's, and it remains one of the most important contributions to the science of position play.

Still, your statement that aiming systems weren't really discussed way back when jives with what I remember.

 

[Michael Andros]

Generally correct, Mike, but I'd argue that Ray Martin, who introduced his "ghost ball" concepts circa 1973-74, was the first to offer a documented aiming system. As Freddie the Beard once noted, however, the ghost ball system, which he saw as an important step forward, was slightly deficient in that it failed to account for collision induced throw.

Buddy's clock system, to my recollection, got it's first real publicity in the mid-1980's, and it remains one of the most important contributions to the science of position play.

Still, your statement that aiming systems weren't really discussed way back when jives with what I remember.

I KNEW I was missing something!!!


Thanks, Stu. I am familiar with Ray's Ghost Ball, I just never knew ( or understood, perhaps ) it to be a part of or the "whole" of a system, formally speaking. But, having been said, I'm certainly not surprised it would've been Ray taking the Blue Ribbon in *THAT* event! Talk about a wellspring of information. Ray qualifies in SPADES. :grin:

 

[WildWing]

Why are you unnecessarily correcting a legend?

Wedge (Frank) has been dead for going on three years, in case you were waiting for a response.

All the best,
WW