John Davis Blanks

ideologist said:
I don't know why cuemakers say it is not cost effective. I figured out how to make full splice blanks with about $500 worth of equipment. When I get the return points dialed in like I want, I will show you.
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Cue makers say it's not cost effective because it's not cost effective. With some experience of your own, you'll be saying the same. We say it's not cost effective because we have been where you are, tried what you are trying, weighed the cost against the success, and from there we drew our conclusion. Maybe we are all wrong & maybe you figured out what nobody else could. It's possible. But saying it is worth nothing if you don't have even the first blank to prove it.

I know several cue makers, including myself, who know how to make veneered full splices. But there's good reason for not doing so. What you don't know is sometimes worth more than what you do know.
 
Ken_4fun said:
Your confusion, confuses me.

Titlist cues were made by Brunswick and nearly every cue maker has used them for conversion.

I like Schick veneer work very much but I would never ask Bill to make a blank to have someone else finish it.

Seems like every time you comment on one of my threads I am left confused. I guess you are just a lot smarter than me....:rolleyes:

Ken
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My point is... there are a lot of titlists out there because Brunswick was set up to make them. Many of them. So they did and now, lots and lots of people have them converted by cuemakers. Why not have the cuemaker make the fullsplice blank with the same woods and veneers themselves?! Why buy the titlist???

The answer is, because many cuemakers aren't set up to pull off full-splice builds. It would take them too much time and energy, and thus cost the customer a LOT of money. So converting the blank that was made by Brunswick is no big deal.


So why is it a big deal if that blank came from Prather or someone else? How does that differ at all??? I'm not saying I'm smarter than you. I'm just saying that it seems like your justification is "lots of cuemakers converted titlists so they shouldn't be offended if someone asks them to do it. But they SHOULD be offended if the company that made the fullsplice blank is NOT Brunswick". Just curious why that is.
 
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jazznpool said:
Blanks of any origin take a good number of cuemakers out of their comfort zone. Some don't now how to keep points running true or have the patience necessary to cut the blank down gradually. Some cuemakers may perceive you're trying to be cheap (like bringing your own steak to a steak restaurant). If you bought the Davis blank from me and was unhappy the blank could be returned right after you got it if there was a problem with it. The blanks are greatly oversize and small wobbles are harmless to the end product. It should also be known that there are a good number of esteemed and award winning USA cuemakers who will indeed build out a John Davis blank and are beyond qualified to do so. Here's a few one off near exhibition grade golden brown curly koa Titlist style longsplice blanks just in. High figure birdseye and hard curl noses with purpleheart core as shown.
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Good golly Miss Molly. Fantastic blank.
 
Full Splice

Eric, In theory is a full splice a better way to build a butt than any of the other current build methods? If yes what blanks do you prefer to work with outside of Davis blanks? THx
 
Shooter08 said:
Eric, In theory is a full splice a better way to build a butt than any of the other current build methods? If yes what blanks do you prefer to work with outside of Davis blanks? THx
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Well it used to be, but we have been past that point for a long time. IMO, nothing beats a well executed "A" joint in a cue made with good wood. It's so much more versatile than a full splice in weight distribution, weight range, balance, wood selection, and obviously the design. A full splice is a full splice. It's what you got, the same thing that's been built for more than a century. You can inlay it, vary the veneer colors, but it's still a full splice. With modern joinery, the sky is the limit.

In terms of playability, I would argue there's very little if any difference between full splice and "A" joint. If the cue maker has a clue, the cue will hit good whether it's a solid wood butt, full splice, or modern 3-piece with "A" joint. I would further argue that I, as the builder, have more flexibility to create a specific hit/feel if I do not use a full splice. If I thought for a moment that full splice was in any way superior, that's how I'd be making all of my cues. I'm not saying there's anything wrong or bad about full splice, just that it puts a lot of limitations on the builder but doesn't perform any better. IMO, full splices are for traditionalists who appreciate that particular technique. For those folks, a full splice is the best. For the other 99% of us, there are other options available.
 
jazznpool said:
Blanks of any origin take a good number of cuemakers out of their comfort zone. Some don't now how to keep points running true or have the patience necessary to cut the blank down gradually. Some cuemakers may perceive you're trying to be cheap (like bringing your own steak to a steak restaurant). If you bought the Davis blank from me and was unhappy the blank could be returned right after you got it if there was a problem with it. The blanks are greatly oversize and small wobbles are harmless to the end product. It should also be known that there are a good number of esteemed and award winning USA cuemakers who will indeed build out a John Davis blank and are beyond qualified to do so. Here's a one off near exhibition grade golden brown curly koa Titlist style longsplice blanks just in. High figure hard curl nose.
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I went up to John's shop a few years back and picked up a few blanks. I had Ed Young make a cue out of one of them and Bobby Hunter has the other one. His should be done soon.

I also bought three cues from Scott Gracio that were made using Davis blanks, tow cues from Alex Brick using Davis blanks, and I have another but I forget who the cue maker was on that one.

Some of them are in the following pic. From the left, 7,8,9, 11 and 12. Very nice cues.

 
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I have been looking for this explanation, TY so much Eric!!!

qbilder said:
Well it used to be, but we have been past that point for a long time. IMO, nothing beats a well executed "A" joint in a cue made with good wood. It's so much more versatile than a full splice in weight distribution, weight range, balance, wood selection, and obviously the design. A full splice is a full splice. It's what you got, the same thing that's been built for more than a century. You can inlay it, vary the veneer colors, but it's still a full splice. With modern joinery, the sky is the limit.

In terms of playability, I would argue there's very little if any difference between full splice and "A" joint. If the cue maker has a clue, the cue will hit good whether it's a solid wood butt, full splice, or modern 3-piece with "A" joint. I would further argue that I, as the builder, have more flexibility to create a specific hit/feel if I do not use a full splice. If I thought for a moment that full splice was in any way superior, that's how I'd be making all of my cues. I'm not saying there's anything wrong or bad about full splice, just that it puts a lot of limitations on the builder but doesn't perform any better. IMO, full splices are for traditionalists who appreciate that particular technique. For those folks, a full splice is the best. For the other 99% of us, there are other options available.
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I have been looking for this explanation for a while now, this is the first honest answer I feel like I have received. TY so much Eric!!!
 
TATE said:
He was trained by Burton Spain, as was Joel Hercek.

Full splice blanks are not very common anymore. They are much harder to build correctly compared to a milled blank (short splice) . His blanks are superior to all other full splice blanks currently available in my opinion. Notice the key words are "full splice' and "blanks". Joel Hercek's are fabulous too but he won't sell you one (and he doesn't like full length handles, which John will make).

I have one cue with his blank and about 6 or so of his raw blanks - they are all still straight, he uses quality wood and veneers - top notch stuff. Everything fits together and aligns "just right".

A cue maker should not get insulted - most will refuse to make you a custom with a full splice unless they aquire the blank. It's just too difficult to set up a jig just to make a couple. It is debatable whether there is any advantage to a full splice besides strength (full splices are much stronger under lateral stress then an "A" joint cue) but if someone prefers a custom full splice cue of the highest quality and doesn't want to wait 10 years to get it, a John Davis blank is a great direction to go.

Chris
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I agree, not sure why there is any debate.
 
Ken_4fun said:
I understand that Mr. Davis supplied Balabushka some blanks, and I see that folks still actively go after his blanks to take to other cuemakers for them to complete.

My question is why?

Is his blanks so far superior to anyone else?

I have seen some pretty great veneers from many cuemakers today, and frankly, I would be insulted if I built cues and you came to me with a blank from another maker for me to finish.

I understand why Balabushka did it, but when I see it today, I am a little lost.

Help?

Ken
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I'd say history. There's a connection with the names Spain and Balabushka. Some people get excited about that. Some people don't.

Freddie <~~~ likes the history
 
Ken_4fun said:
I understand that Mr. Davis supplied Balabushka some blanks, and I see that folks still actively go after his blanks to take to other cuemakers for them to complete.

My question is why?

Is his blanks so far superior to anyone else?

I have seen some pretty great veneers from many cuemakers today, and frankly, I would be insulted if I built cues and you came to me with a blank from another maker for me to finish.

I understand why Balabushka did it, but when I see it today, I am a little lost.

Help?

Ken
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Yet, all these cue makers are NOT insulted to work on Davis blanks. Thousands and thousands of cues have Davis blanks.

Yes, I don't know a single Chicago area cue maker that would not do it. Oh, I'm sure there might be one, I just have not run across him yet.

If Burton Spain was still alive, you would NOT like to have one of his blanks? Really ?
 
I have a ebony 4 pt 4 veneer davis blank finished by Doug Patrick. And it "hits a ton" "shoots lights out" and a bag of chips. Lol.
 
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