John Schmidt vs Niels Feijen - Schmidt conceeded

poolsnark said:
I'm pretty stunned that this would come from a mod. Is that what the AZ boards are really about? If a mod doesn't like someone's opinion, he gathers support to justify removal? Not everyone has the same warm fuzzies about JS, but people shouldn't be banned (or given veiled threats of banning) just because they don't hold JS in the same light that a mod does.

Just my $.02
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I don't think this is about JS alone. It's more about the disturbing trend of pro players being slammed on this forum. I think the majority of members here value contributions from the pros. If they get run off, the forum suffers. I'm not saying they are immune to criticism, however the way Smashmouth did it was uncalled for IMO.

Keep on posting John, and Grady !! Come on back Earl !! (was he ever here?) LOL.

Also, Kudos to Mr. Wilson. He has a difficult job, and I think he handles it well.
 
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Very interesting thread here that goes beyond John Schmidt and his actions at the 14.1 event. The way I see it is that when you are in the public eye (which all professional athletes are), you will receive praise for your accomplishments and criticism for your failings. And this is especially true on a public forum. It is is the one place where "fans" and observers of pros can voice their opinions.

In this respect, no billiard forum compares with AZ. Whether any professional athlete (pool player or other sport) likes it or not, this is going to happen on public forums. And it will take place whether they choose to participate in the discussion or not. And that is their sole decision to make. I think it does take some gumption for an athlete to participate on a forum where he may be criticized publicly.

In this case John has chosen to come on AZ to make certain requests and discuss topics of his choosing. All well and good, but he must realize there are other people on here who may not always be in agreement with him. Such is a public forum. If there can be no dissenting opinions, then this forum would lose the standing it currently enjoys in the billiard community.

That being said, all opinions should be presented with respect for the readers. And that is why there are rules in place here, and someone to enforce them.
 
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Sorry, was spending a weekend concentrating on family and it looks like this post got out of hand during that time.

One of the biggest rules here in not to attack another user. You can debate with them til the cows come home, but attacking them for their beliefs (or actions) is a big no-no.

I can't see SM's post as anything other than an attack on JS. This is the one and only warning that will be given to SM for this sort of thing. Another post like this, attacking another user, will be his last post. It won't matter who the users would rather see posts from.

As for John and his feelings to not visit the forums anymore; there is nothing that can be done about this. It is John's decision and hopefully he will see SM as one user, instead of the entire site. If John decides to stop posting here, then we will certainly lose something.

I deal with John on a professional level, but will not in any way try to convince him to come back to the site. I respect whatever decision he decides to make.

Mike
 
FYI... SM = SmashMouth *not* Sweet Marissa!!

John has always been a gentleman that I've seen. As for the incident at the 14.1, every story has another side. He won't be the fist to concede a game and he won't be the last. I'm willing to bet most on here have at some point. Anyway, these pros don't tell any of us how to do our jobs. What makes some people here think they can tell these guys how to do theirs? We're blessed to have their contribution here. If you're going to talk to them or about them, give them a little respect. I'm sure they could be doing other things than posting on a messageboard where they're subject to ridicule.
 
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AzHousePro said:
One of the biggest rules here in not to attack another user. You can debate with them til the cows come home, but attacking them for their beliefs (or actions) is a big no-no.

I can't see SM's post as anything other than an attack on JS.
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Fair enough, although it seems that JS is getting some preferential treatment here. After all, there have been attacks on numerous other posters and pros here without any moderator hubbub. Sarah Ellerby, CW, the OMGWTF/CUBC fiasco, the list goes on and on (By the way, I'm not defending Ellerby or CW, just using them as examples).

What was really in poor taste was the way your moderator decided to handle this. Instead of using the PM or email route, he decided to jump in the fray and rile up the already angry mob. I'm not defending what Smashmouth wrote, but there should be some level of consistency when it comes to enforcing the rules, don't you think? If not, it just becomes a clubhouse where different rules apply to the cool kids.
 
poolsnark said:
Fair enough, although it seems that JS is getting some preferential treatment here. After all, there have been attacks on numerous other posters and pros here without any moderator hubbub. Sarah Ellerby, CW, the OMGWTF/CUBC fiasco, the list goes on and on (By the way, I'm not defending Ellerby or CW, just using them as examples).

What was really in poor taste was the way your moderator decided to handle this. Instead of using the PM or email route, he decided to jump in the fray and rile up the already angry mob. I'm not defending what Smashmouth wrote, but there should be some level of consistency when it comes to enforcing the rules, don't you think? If not, it just becomes a clubhouse where different rules apply to the cool kids.
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I think the CW did receive moderator action when a thread was removed because of the subject matter contained within.

This is a moderated forum. I know of a few pro players who are beaten up on this forum by the same members time and time again, but you know what, most times the forum as a whole will chime in with their opinons about those bullies and trolls who do bash some pros on a frequent basis.

I think the moderator of a forum should chime in if they feel like it. Also, I believe they should take action without any notification whatsoever. It is their prerogative to do so.

What I don't understand, though I have tried to figure it out, if there are so many members of THIS forum who dislike moderation and/or the moderator(s), why not just post on another pool forum that is not moderated. There are MANY others where anything goes. Pros are ripped apart, as well as others, because that is what THOSE forums enjoy. They call it "honesty" and "having mutual respect" for each other.

There must be some reason why this forum is number one on the Internet for pool, even with its doggone moderation and moderator(s). :wink:

And somehow even the bullies, trolls, and sometimes regular posters of the unmoderated forums cannot stay away from AzBilliards, with all of its warts and problems they think exist here. It's the stuff threads are written about on unmoderated forums. LOL! :grin-square:

JAM
 
Well said

AzHousePro said:
Sorry, was spending a weekend concentrating on family and it looks like this post got out of hand during that time.

One of the biggest rules here in not to attack another user. You can debate with them til the cows come home, but attacking them for their beliefs (or actions) is a big no-no.

I can't see SM's post as anything other than an attack on JS. This is the one and only warning that will be given to SM for this sort of thing. Another post like this, attacking another user, will be his last post. It won't matter who the users would rather see posts from.

As for John and his feelings to not visit the forums anymore; there is nothing that can be done about this. It is John's decision and hopefully he will see SM as one user, instead of the entire site. If John decides to stop posting here, then we will certainly lose something.

I deal with John on a professional level, but will not in any way try to convince him to come back to the site. I respect whatever decision he decides to make.

Mike
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Mike. I'm glad you posted. Some posters will always try to pick AZ actions apart but reasonable minds know you can't address everything to be 100% consistent in everybody's eyes. IMO, if someone attacks a high profile poster, such as JS, then that attacker is going to draw more attention and a quicker trigger on a ban or warning. Is that consistency? No, it is reality in a business that generates thousands of hits and hundreds of posts a day. You do the best you reasonably & feasibly can.

Thanks for posting Mike.

And a side note to John "don't call me Bob Villa" Schmidt, I truly look forward to seeing Rachel on an avatar, 'cause I know your post will be a worthy read. I hope to see many more.

Keep 'em rolling downhill,

Matt

PS: fingers crossed on a light blow from Gustav
 
I think I need to bring a point to the surface here.

Most all AZB members are recreational pool players and fans. Some of us are here for our business. There is a big difference. For those that are here fun, the limits are much more open. After all, if you say or do something wrong, it does not affect your paycheck.

But for those of us who make our living in the billiards industry, we have to look at things completely different. I know that it is very hard for many of my customers to realize that I am not "In it for fun" like they are. I can't tell you how many times my cell phone has rang at 3 in the morning!

Who is smashmouth? Is he a fan? I find his comments suspect to being just a fan. He comments as though he is in the know.

I think John Schmidt is doing absolutely the right thing by not becoming involved in this. Do I think he will be back? While that is up to him, I don't think he can stay away. He loves AZB and all of you guys here, with a few exceptions of course.:)

As far as OB Cues is concerned, John Schmidt is a great asset to our company. Although I don't like the fact that he conceded the way he did, he is still a part of our team.

Now, if everybody would go out today and buy an OB-1, maybe we could sponsor a couple more pros too.! Just kidding. I think that is the only shameless plug I have ever done on AZB.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
RBC said:
I think I need to bring a point to the surface here.

Most all AZB members are recreational pool players and fans. Some of us are here for our business. There is a big difference. For those that are here fun, the limits are much more open. After all, if you say or do something wrong, it does not affect your paycheck.

But for those of us who make our living in the billiards industry, we have to look at things completely different. I know that it is very hard for many of my customers to realize that I am not "In it for fun" like they are. I can't tell you how many times my cell phone has rang at 3 in the morning!

Who is smashmouth? Is he a fan? I find his comments suspect to being just a fan. He comments as though he is in the know.

I think John Schmidt is doing absolutely the right thing by not becoming involved in this. Do I think he will be back? While that is up to him, I don't think he can stay away. He loves AZB and all of you guys here, with a few exceptions of course.:)

As far as OB Cues is concerned, John Schmidt is a great asset to our company. Although I don't like the fact that he conceded the way he did, he is still a part of our team.

Now, if everybody would go out today and buy an OB-1, maybe we could sponsor a couple more pros too.! Just kidding. I think that is the only shameless plug I have ever done on AZB.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
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Thank you for being honest and saying that you are not happy that John Schmidt conceeded the way he did!

Thank you for sponsoring top players like John, and that you still want to have him in your team! That's great. Hope you will sponsor more events/pros in the future when your business will grow!

Thank you for OB-1. I have 2 of them, one for my Predator and one for my Prather. (Although I missed a ball with my Prather-cue and smashed it on the table, and destroyed the OB-1... Gonna get a new shaft soon. OB-1 of course!)

Btw: John Schmidt is part of the reason I am having OB-1!
 
RBC said:
I think I need to bring a point to the surface here.

Most all AZB members are recreational pool players and fans. Some of us are here for our business. There is a big difference. For those that are here fun, the limits are much more open. After all, if you say or do something wrong, it does not affect your paycheck.

But for those of us who make our living in the billiards industry, we have to look at things completely different. I know that it is very hard for many of my customers to realize that I am not "In it for fun" like they are. I can't tell you how many times my cell phone has rang at 3 in the morning!

Who is smashmouth? Is he a fan? I find his comments suspect to being just a fan. He comments as though he is in the know.

I think John Schmidt is doing absolutely the right thing by not becoming involved in this. Do I think he will be back? While that is up to him, I don't think he can stay away. He loves AZB and all of you guys here, with a few exceptions of course.:)

As far as OB Cues is concerned, John Schmidt is a great asset to our company. Although I don't like the fact that he conceded the way he did, he is still a part of our team.

Now, if everybody would go out today and buy an OB-1, maybe we could sponsor a couple more pros too.! Just kidding. I think that is the only shameless plug I have ever done on AZB.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
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What a great post! The actual SPONSOR point-of-view! Thanks for your input. You bring a lot of common sense to a thread which has taken many turns.

I met John Saturday at a tournament, (about the same time this thread started), and thanked him for being one of the few Pros that contribute to this forum.

When I went home Saturday night and read this whole thing I then realized that this could potentially be his last post.

I went back to the tournament yesterday and John was still there. We talked about this thread, and he's been reading it, but still is reluctant to jump back in right away.

One thing he made clear, though. The anonymity out here allows cowards to take potshots at the pros, and it gets frustrating for him to deal with that. He would really prefer it if people were not allowed to be anonymous, but also he knows that it won't happen.

He has also talked with other pros about posting here, and almost all of them think he's gotta be crazy to do it because of the potshots.

John really likes this forum, but I would completely understand if he just decided to lurk like so many other pros.

On a positive note, John knows how to use the USER CP button, so If you throw him some greenies, he'll at least feel the love from his fans out here.
 
Roy Steffensen said:
(Although I missed a ball with my Prather-cue and smashed it on the table, and destroyed the OB-1... Gonna get a new shaft soon. OB-1 of course!)
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Roy, you are supposed to be a pro, so this is inexcusable. I think you should be banned from playing forever, just like John. And everybody else that ever showed some emotion! ;) ;) ;)

Thanks to Royce for posting, repped ya. Awesome & straightforward insight from a sponsor on his thoroughbred! :thumbup:

This is just some of the good stuff that makes AZB #1.
 
hmm, what happened here? I ask to be banned and instead come back to a bunch of green rep, interesting......
 
smashmouth said:
hmm, what happened here? I ask to be banned and instead come back to a bunch of green rep, interesting......
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Crazy idea.......you could ban yourself!!!!:thumbup:
 
John has absolutely done the right thing by not jumping in this thread and continuing arguments. I hope he has realized that he doesn't need to defend himself on here by arguing with naysayers.

As far as the concession goes, I don't know the full details of the situation so I don't have a valid opinion. I can speculate that it had something to do with anger/frustration, and that is definitely something I think John could improve on. If he can work on controlling his anger and frustration level, and remain patient at the table, he will be a better player.

I believe John will return to AZB, but he's just taking a break right now to cool down. It takes a tremendous effort to see these negative opinions and not jump in to defend yourself. This is a big step for John and I'm proud of him for it. Hopefully he can continue to develop this patience and take it to the table with him.
 
smashmouth said:
hmm, what happened here? I ask to be banned and instead come back to a bunch of green rep, interesting......
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Yeah you're everbodys hero. Keep it up so none of the pros post here, what could they possibly contribute anyway[sarcasm] I would much rather read the thoughts of players who can't run three balls.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
I have a question for our members:


Would you rather have John Schmidt on this board or Smashmouth?
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What are you saying? You are going to ban him because he hurt a pool players feelings? I think John is a big boy and can fight his own battles!
 
worldison2 said:
One thing he made clear, though. The anonymity out here allows cowards to take potshots at the pros, and it gets frustrating for him to deal with that. He would really prefer it if people were not allowed to be anonymous, but also he knows that it won't happen.

He has also talked with other pros about posting here, and almost all of them think he's gotta be crazy to do it because of the potshots.

John really likes this forum, but I would completely understand if he just decided to lurk like so many other pros.
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On a forum like this one, it's crucial that the trolls be kept in check. Unfortunately, due to the holiday weekend, the moderators were not on top of things as they usually are.

Too often, the trolls push the boundaries of what they can get away with. IMO, the moderators should probably rein in the trolls sooner by banning or suspending them.
 
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