Joshua Filler withdrawn from the Mosconi Cup!
- Thread starter vjmehra
- Start date
Darn right, Jay. Matchroom has the vision, the structure and the management team to deliver pool from its doldrums if WPA can ever get out of the way. They are the best thing to happen to pool in the twenty-first century.
Still, Matchroom prize money alone isn't yet high enough for more than a handful to make a sustainable living. Now that WPA has forced every player's hand, each must decide where their income will lie. Being loyal to event producers, federations, sponsors and governing bodies comes with a price tag now, and for that reason, today's pros face decisions unlike any that their predecessors faced and must sort through numerous conflicts of interests as they choose their paths.
The PGA Tour took some time to develop into what it is. Right now it might evolve into something else. I don’t know all the details, but it took some strong and successful players to get control of the PGA Tour from the PGA of America. Nicklaus and Palmer had a lot to do with it I think. The Tour still maintained good relations with the PGA of America and could work with the USGA and R&A. Both the USGA and R&A seem well ahead of the WPA IMO.
Anyway, golf was in a different spot and you had big stars willing to build a tour not just hog at the trough. They made millions to be sure, but the Tour supported many players. Deane Beman was a great commissioner and a good tax set up helped. There wasn’t a player’s union, but the players had to work together. There was more to work with than what pool has now though. There was a functional tour with established tournaments that was built over several decades.
The WNT is different. However, I tend to think it is the best mechanism right now as far as advancing the pro game. Someday maybe the players will be in a position to do more or organize differently. If they are ever in such a position they probably want to emulate Nicklaus and Palmer more than the pool players who screwed things up in the past - as you chronicle well from your experience.
the golf split was in '68. it was the 'tournament players division' at first and then the 'PGATour' from '75 on. I often use golf analogies to pool myself but the truth of the matter is there is really zero comparison. Reason? Money. The amount of $$$ in golf is staggering. Hell if pool gets as big as pro bowling $$ wise they'd be doing good.
Thank you Stu. The bright side is that at least pool players appear to have opportunities they never had before and decisions to make that never presented themselves before. In the past it was always about grab what you can now because it's not going to last, and that's exactly what most of them did. This time there may well be long term benefits that had been promised before but never delivered upon.
There you go. That makes sense. Give the players a say in the future of their sport.
You are so right! Would you believe that many players were angry when they found out I was actually making money producing pool tournaments! I'll never forget that either. A few well known players came up to me and asked me if I was making more than the winner of the tournament. True that! I had to remind them that it took me six months to produce this event, with a large outlay of not only time but money! There was risk involved as well, and I lost money (sometimes a lot) in the beginning. They would walk away still unswayed.
I also like the way the NBA (National Basketball Association) handles things. The head of the players association gets a seat on the NBA Board of Directors. While this does not give the players a huge voice in strategic planning, it does mean they will not be blindsided as the direction of the NBA is mapped out.
They had to know the two sides are gonna eventually combine. The LIV is not doing well as far as tv #'s, spectator turnout. Its a 2nd rate tour with a few good players backed by a shitload of money. Rumor has it that Jon Rahm offered to pay back 100mill of his signing bonus to return to PGATour.
I dunno, Josh is a public figure and a big boy. If anything the bag-o-diks posting Josh in blackface put him in a more sympathetic light which I think is right.
MR doesn't really need to expand IMO, although it would be nice to know when he'll be back or if it's just invitationals or whatever. He was a naughty boy and he's obviously on a time-out.
Looking forward to being at the Mosconi. No disrespect to any of Team Europe but without Josh we're losing a lot which is a bummer.
It’s a weird balance. Sometimes players need a say. Sometimes a powerful dictator/commissioner/league is needed. Baseball needed a strong commissioner after the Black Sox scandal. Football having a strong league and commissioners - Rozelle especially- guided a merged league into the TV era. Boxing???? Compare and contrast I guess. Often the balance favored leagues and owners too much probably. But the successful ones need a balance between players and the business side.
The NHL might be a good example but I don’t know enough about the situation. There’s a sport with bigger money than many, but it still isn’t close to the NFL or NBA. The money is tighter and it isn’t as popular. Tougher for owners and players but I think they are doing well from what I understand.
sudocrushms
Well-known member
The NHL/NHLPA have been brawling for decades. It's led to several lockouts and I'm sure a lot of lost money by the ownership, but that's the only place you can hit them: the pocketbook. It's gotten the players what they want and without them there is no league.
Obviously the NHL/NFL/NBA/MLB also have more player health/safety impacts than pool players, but the athletes deserve fair representation so a handful of rich a-holes aren't profiting off them without compensation (see: NCAA).
Pro downhill mountain biking has been going through the same issues the last couple years with athletes (justifiably) wanting more control over the courses and racing decisions.
What's most important for starters is the competitors and league/sponsors/organizers to be on the same page. Doesn't seem like we have that here, but also seems the players are getting mixed messages from different groups.
Just my $.02.
Unions always make things worse in the long run. They're kind of like communism. They sound great on paper but inevitably lead to corruption and manipulation for the benefit of the people in charge, not the member.
Jaden
Lockouts/strikes.
Back to Filler. This is where I would blow a gasket as a player who boycotted the WPA event over the WPA bans. After Filler made the statement with other WNT players … to then go play in it…. Like I said earlier I would not want him in the Reyes or Mosconi Cups. Players do take risks and lose money when they strike or get locked out. NFL/MLB/NBA players should thank their predecessors who got them free agency and better deals.
I was a kid during the ‘74 NFL lockout. I remember going to watch the Denver Broncos players practice at a local high school. No pro facilities, coaches etc…. No contracts or medical coverage provided. I can’t imagine players doing that now. Maybe. I guess they do their own thing in the off season, but still. If I were a player everything I did would be at the team facility. No NFI list with no pay for me, thanks.
sudocrushms
Well-known member
Lol ok.
You like having PTO, worker safety standards, employee rights, and a 5-day work week? Thank unions.
Unions absolutely have their flaws, but to say unions make things worse is patently false unless you're one of the rich a-holes that benefits from cheap labor and no regulation.
they have their place but when it gets to the point of companies leaving/closing they go too far. labor negotiations are always a dicey deal.
No, I thank collective bargaining. If you don't understand the distinction, then that's on you. Unions serve the unions in the long run. They are corrupted and used for leadership's gains.
There's nothing about collective bargaining that requires them to formalize an organizational body and pay a fee that can be used for anything from paying a president's salary to paying for PACs that don't have their best interests at heart or are representative of them.
Jaden
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I live in RTW state and it was the best thing they ever passed in the Ok. legislature. There are still unions but you are not required to join one. All the union hacks squealed when the law was passed but in the long run it didn't change much if anything. Fk them and their dues.
sudocrushms
Well-known member
Unions are created for the purpose of collective bargaining that would be the primary tool they use...
The union *will* serve the union because guess what: it's members ARE the union. That's what makes it - you guessed it - a union.
In the long run, unions and regulators are the only things keeping us from becoming serfs to the billionaires of the world.