Joshua Filler withdrawn from the Mosconi Cup!

Bob Jewett said:
You forgot to mention that MR only has Tonka Toys, and Josh likes other kinds, even Parker Brothers.
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I had to look that up, I forgot what they were. The Tonka Toys are what I wanted! All those trucks! But too expensive, so I never had any. ha ha. Yeah, that's a good analogy!
 
upindaklub said:
Offer, acceptance, and consideration are the three main elements of a legally binding contract
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Doesn't have to be $$, it could just be a guaranteed place on their tour. I don't think anyone outside MR and the players have seen a WNT contract/agreement.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Right. Everyone keeps pointing the finger that Predator is forcing Filler's hands. I don't believe that is the case.
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You actually misunderstood my point. Mario and Albin play under the same federation and it doesn't appear to effect Mario's stance on the matter. The difference is predator. Who I'm sure has more financial sway with players. I'm not saying it's Predator's doing. Just that it's a more likely contributor than the respective federation influence.
 
So what happens if most of the good players get banned by both organizations? When does Kevin Trudeau get out of prison? Can the IPT be revived? Will CJ step in and start another tour?
 
mnorwood said:
So what happens if most of the good players get banned by both organizations? When does Kevin Trudeau get out of prison? Can the IPT be revived? Will CJ step in and start another tour?
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Not as long as Earl is lurking in the shadows 😁
 
Mass bunning seems like a good way to bail on the deal. If the governing bodies did fold, players would have to go fend and you'd have a different breed of goat, boat, float, and bloat.
 
sjm said:
Yes, isn't it hilarious that serious fans of the pro game care whether they can expect to see the best possible fields at pool's major championships? Really, why would they care?

It's your every right to not care, but don't mock those of us who actually care about how all this will affect the pro game and the players' ability to earn a living at this game.
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Wasn't' meant Mockingly. Did not intend it that way. More of a commentary on the game and the events themselves...

Joshua Filler's choices of where to play or not play(and the organization's choices to remove him from consideration in their events etc) just means he's going to play somewhere else. There is and always has been a cause and effect to people's choices and same can be said for business'/organizations.

You wanna disagree with the organization/governing bodies for their choices, I can understand that. It's always going to be frustrating seeing the game you love "meddled with" over something that you perceive as being trivial. This I can understand. But to the people/organizations it affects it's not trivial or else they wouldn't take hard stances.

But we can't blame the players for their choices as they are always thinking about their own personal situations(their wallets, sponsors, etc). And I don't blame the organizations either if they believe this choice or that is best for their bottom line OR for their direction/goals. As people with no "skin in the game" we simply don't have much of a say if any in all of this. (again general commentary not pointed at any one post)

WNT and WPA are running events and making decisions based on what's best for their bottom lines. If that's not the case then I'll stand corrected on all of this but it's gonna be a tough sell.
 
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jay helfert said:
I actually answered that question about a month ago. My feeling then was that the WPA had many opportunities to do something for Pool and the pro players over a period of decades, and each time it failed them. The WPA failed to protect players in disputes over non pay and late payments by delinquent promoters. In fact, even sanctioning these same promoters again at later dates. Additionally the WPA pretty much handled scheduling of events with preference given to promoters sanctioning with them and paying the sanction fee. They would schedule an event on top of someone's else's dates if it meant getting more sanction money. It was all done in a haphazard fashion designed to get the maximum money in fees.

As for the legitimate promoters I cannot remember anything the WPA did on their behalf except put a date on their calendar. It was up to the promoter to do everything involved in promoting and producing the event. That included getting the necessary sponsorship money, securing the loctation, and staffing the event. The WPA did not supply referees or other officials to help run the event. They did send one representative, at the promoters expense, to be present at the awards ceremony and hand out a trophy (yes, bought by the promoter), plus make sure to have his picture taken with the winners, as if he had done something important in making this event happen. And of course this esteemed representative was there to pick up the check for the sanction money!

In the meantime I met Barry Hearn, the head of Matchroom, and a man devoted to making professional Pool into a real pro sport, not unlike what he had already accomplished with Snooker. I saw a man dedicated to this task! I did some business with Barry along the way, him giving me the rights to sell videotapes of the 1999 and 2000 WPC in North America, with me paying him a royalty fee. He was honorable in business and always kept his word, plus he remained dedicated to the task at hand, which was not an easy one, nor an inexpensive one. Barry worked hard to overcome roadblocks set up by the WPA and each time managed to pull off the staging of some great tournaments. Many times he was at great financial risk and proceeded none the less. And he never quit!!

To this day I have great admiration for Sir Barry Hearn and value his friendship. He has entrusted the leadership of the WNT to Emily Frazer and his son Eddie, and it is in very capable hands. I have not always agreed with some of their decisions (the changing of age old ball colors for no reason), but my support for them, MR and the WNT has only grown as I've seen the results of their efforts.

I hope this answers your question.
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Thank you for your detailed answer Jay.

[My only hope that those who it truly affects worldwide (and not just in the States), read and understand what you wrote.]

As I intended your answer to become a source of information for all professional Pool players!

Knowledge, wisdom and understanding = prosperity.

Let's hope the players can do right by themselves, as I see this as their biggest challenge.
 
The_JV said:
I'm riding the fence with this one.

I don't blame MR or Filler. MR has a plan in mind and attempted to include Josh. They don't owe Josh anything. Josh on the other hand has made decisions based on what he believes are in his best interest. He does not owe MR anything.

As far as whatever contract Josh signed with MR. Well normally a contract is a legally binding agreement. I have no idea of knowing what repercussions Josh can be facing. What I do know is he has not be banned from anything, and merely purposely excluded from what used to be invitational events MR holds.

I feel like I should be more wound up about this, but honestly don't believe it will effect anything in the long run.
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Unfortunately, the fence has been partially ploughed down and not fixed back into position.

So one player took a look and decided to make a dash over to the other side.

He couldn't have done it, if the fence (or contract in this case) was solid.

So perhaps the real question is...

Did the said player compete within the bounds of his professional contract(s) or did he break anyone of his professional contracts?
 
jbart65 said:
What I don't want to see if Filler banned from open WNT events.

Would not be surprised if he has to go thru qualifiers, however. Or is no longer guaranteed a slot as one of the 128 on the tour.

Speaking of which, will he and his wife actually leave the tour?

As for the MR statement, I think Frazer and Co. can't really say much without putting Filler in a bad light. Sensible to leave things as they are unless Filler chooses to comment. So far he's been keeping his powder dry, too.
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As mentioned before. He has not been invited to an invitational event.

How long can this be upheld is questionable. As it could be regarded as prejudicial.
 
maha said:
basically the promoters have a business model and that is of their choice. if you dont like it dont do business with them.

if you sign a contract with them you are obligated to do what you agreed to for the term of it. that was your choice you made. and your word.

if the majority of players want something different they need to have their own tournaments or form a union of some kind to get more say in what goes on.
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A player's Union or Association is the only way to unify the players. They are simply incapable of doing it themselves.
 
iusedtoberich said:
The thing is I don't see anywhere where he is playing the victim. We, the peanut gallery, are making him a victim. He's going about his business, playing pool, and traveling with his wife.
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Living his dream!

I'd piss on anyone who dared attempted or prevented me from living my dream.

We all know we only get one turn on the old merry-go-round...
 
The social media bullying of Joshua Filler continues. On Matchroom's Facebook Forum, somebody posted a photo of Joshua with a black face, which was shocking, racist, and disgusting to see in the year 2024. And what's worse is people had a field day mocking and ridiculing and demeaning Joshua on that thread.

The moderators eventually removed the thread, thank goodness. I found it upsetting to see, number one, but number two, it is this type of cyberbullying that can cause major depressions and, sadly, even suicide when it continues on and on and on and on. I do feel Joshua Filler is strong emotionally and mentally. You have to have that kind of strength to withstand the pressure of competing on a professional level, especially in front of the cameras.

I think Matchroom's two-sentence cryptic message about removing Joshua from the Mosconi Cup is lacking, especially considering the uproar that has occurred because of it. I do not believe his removal has anything to do with how the other players feel. Sometimes Matchroom's admin staff with their cheeky replies off and on camera is not to my liking. In some cases, I think they enjoy the reaction by the public, wondering what the heck is going on.

My other half said when he was in his prime, social media did not exist, but a lot of chattering railbirds and others used to hate on him. In fact, he said this happens to some pro players in their peak when they show emotion. Often it is misinterpreted. As most who follow professional pool know, off camera, Joshua is humble and very nice. Again, this crap of he went back on his word and changed his mind does not cut the mustard for me, and I'm not afraid to speak up about it each and every time I see cyberbullying happening. I was the recipient of cyberbullying at one time, and I had dark thoughts. I got through it, thank goodness, but some never do.
 
if someone cant take being bullied or attacked on the internet they should of course not be there. you need a thick skin to participate or have your life on the web.

the old saying ,, if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen, is apropos.
 
maha said:
if someone cant take being bullied or attacked on the internet they should of course not be there. you need a thick skin to participate or have your life on the web.

the old saying ,, if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen, is apropos.
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Thanks for sharing your opinion. There's also another adage that comes to mind: "When people hurt you over and over, think of them like sand paper. They may scratch and hurt you a bit, but in the end, you end up polished and they end up useless."

Bullying is a horrible thing, whether on social media, in person, or even in a pool forum like this one.

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InsertCleverNameHere said:
Wasn't' meant Mockingly. Did not intend it that way. More of a commentary on the game and the events themselves...

Joshua Filler's choices of where to play or not play(and the organization's choices to remove him from consideration in their events etc) just means he's going to play somewhere else. There is and always has been a cause and effect to people's choices and same can be said for business'/organizations.

You wanna disagree with the organization/governing bodies for their choices, I can understand that. It's always going to be frustrating seeing the game you love "meddled with" over something that you perceive as being trivial. This I can understand. But to the people/organizations it affects it's not trivial or else they wouldn't take hard stances.

But we can't blame the players for their choices as they are always thinking about their own personal situations(their wallets, sponsors, etc). And I don't blame the organizations either if they believe this choice or that is best for their bottom line OR for their direction/goals. As people with no "skin in the game" we simply don't have much of a say if any in all of this. (again general commentary not pointed at any one post)

WNT and WPA are running events and making decisions based on what's best for their bottom lines. If that's not the case then I'll stand corrected on all of this but it's gonna be a tough sell.
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WPA sanctions events, they don't run shit. They're a bunch of stuffed-shirt carpet baggers who sit in Qatar and make national orgs and promoters(the people that actually DO shit) bow and kiss the ring 'godfather' style. Fk em. Pro pool does not need them.
 
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