Very true, Sean. In fact, CW has gone as far as to makeup his own Hall of Fame. Discarding all that are actually in the real one. My guess is that at some point he will coerce his "stable" to get him voted into it. It's the only way he would get in one, is to make up his own.
Just need to vent
- Thread starter azhousepro
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Very true, Sean. In fact, CW has gone as far as to makeup his own Hall of Fame. Discarding all that are actually in the real one. My guess is that at some point he will coerce his "stable" to get him voted into it. It's the only way he would get in one, is to make up his own.
Banks
Banned
At least they're consistent. Fans, players, rooms, promoters.. they all get treated the same.
OK, I get it, we all want pool to be unified.
So we should pick one leader (like the WPA) and follow their lead and get behind them.
If the WPA puts out a 14.1 World Championship, and Dragon Promotions puts out one,
it's absolutely fair to say the WPA version is the one TRUE World Championships.
The thing is, the WPA doesn't put out a 14.1 championships.
It's a great game, and players have shown interest, and fans will at least watch for free
(900ish on the stream at one point).
But the WPA apparently has no interest in making a world straight pool championship.
Also their track record with other events is spotty. World 9 ball has been semi-reliable but missed 2008 for the men,
2003 & 2005 for the women.
World 8 ball skipped 2006 and 2009.
World 10 ball skipped 2010.
The DP version of this event has at least run continuously since it started.
And apparently the 2010 version was WPA sanctioned.
So how do you want to define a "World championship"?
The best players competing in unquestionably the #1 straight pool tournament that's run smoothly for years?
Or do we define it using some nitpicky technicality and "pool politics" where the exact same event
sometimes gets the title (2010) and sometimes doesn't (all other years)?
So we should pick one leader (like the WPA) and follow their lead and get behind them.
If the WPA puts out a 14.1 World Championship, and Dragon Promotions puts out one,
it's absolutely fair to say the WPA version is the one TRUE World Championships.
The thing is, the WPA doesn't put out a 14.1 championships.
It's a great game, and players have shown interest, and fans will at least watch for free
(900ish on the stream at one point).
But the WPA apparently has no interest in making a world straight pool championship.
Also their track record with other events is spotty. World 9 ball has been semi-reliable but missed 2008 for the men,
2003 & 2005 for the women.
World 8 ball skipped 2006 and 2009.
World 10 ball skipped 2010.
The DP version of this event has at least run continuously since it started.
And apparently the 2010 version was WPA sanctioned.
So how do you want to define a "World championship"?
The best players competing in unquestionably the #1 straight pool tournament that's run smoothly for years?
Or do we define it using some nitpicky technicality and "pool politics" where the exact same event
sometimes gets the title (2010) and sometimes doesn't (all other years)?
You seem to be confusing sanctioning with promoting. To me, if the 2010 was sanctioned, then it is a legit world title. The others, they are just tournaments.
CreeDo:
The one thing I failed to mention is "why" the WPA doesn't recognize the Dragon Promotions 14.1 events as "world" events. In a word, prize monies. They have a minimum standard for an event to be recognized as "world worthy." (Whatever that means.) Instead of addressing this deficiency, DP has instead given the WPA the finger and is going off on their own. Not just calling their events "world" events, but even going as far as creating their own "Hall of Fame" with DP-stipulated player choices for people to "vote" for.
Now, having said all that, am I a fan of the 14.1 event? Of course -- right now, it's the only meal being served. And admittedly, the events are run quite well -- matches being served, plates being picked up, etc. It's a smorgasbord of great pool this week, and I'm enjoying every minute of it.
-Sean
I thought the 2006 event (the first one) that Thorsten won was sanctioned too. I could be wrong about that. Getting into the weeds about what is sanctioned and what isn't or why it is or isn't is too difficult for me to follow or worry about. I'm just glad that someone has chosen to have a big straight pool event every year since 06. I've really enjoyed watching the matches thus far, and they'll be even better once they are going to 150 and 200.
If the WPA is so great why don't they have a 14.1 championship. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion when determining the status of this tournament. That being said, what is your criteria?
It would be nice to have a single governing body for all games. That is why the WPA needs to make a 14.1 Title. Then this argument can be put to bed.
On a side note atleast we don't have multiple 9, 8 and 10 ball titles and end up like boxing with an alphabet full of of world titles.
One more point: Is the winner of the tournament the best 14.1 Player in the world? In a competition with Straight Shooters like Schmidt, Immonenen, Hohman and Ortmann isn't it safe to say that this event has the best players out there?
It would be nice to have a single governing body for all games. That is why the WPA needs to make a 14.1 Title. Then this argument can be put to bed.
On a side note atleast we don't have multiple 9, 8 and 10 ball titles and end up like boxing with an alphabet full of of world titles.
One more point: Is the winner of the tournament the best 14.1 Player in the world? In a competition with Straight Shooters like Schmidt, Immonenen, Hohman and Ortmann isn't it safe to say that this event has the best players out there?
Actually, the last 14.1 champion to be recognized was in 2010 -- Oliver Ortmann:
(Click on the "Straight Pool" tab)
http://wpa-pool.com/web/world_champions#Straight_pool
After that, the past three years aren't, and won't, be recognized by the WPA.
I agree with you (and everyone else here) that watching this event take place -- whether the players will be WPA-recognized or not -- is an exciting, enjoyable experience. And as you say, when the brackets whittle down to the 150 and 200 point matches, that's where it's going to get really exciting!
-Sean
This topic has been hashed and rehashed over the past several years.
I think it is great that DP does these 14.1 events.
But to call it a 'World Tournament' is misleading the public and adding confusion.
Add in that DP has started their own Hall of Fame - (you would NOT have believed the first list of potential inductee - it was an embarassment to everyone).
Then add in that they have the audacity to cal lit the 73rd Tournament. That is an outright lie.
It is typical CW stuff and the purists get real tired of the dilution and confusion. DP needs to understand they are just cheapening their own company and the game they profess to love.
Eventually I would like to bring back the US Open Straight Pool Championship (we held it in 2007 at Qylmpics) - and a bunch of the 'events' that DP calls theirs are previous US Opens. That could get interesting.
All of this fighting is crazy and hurts the industry. But the WPA is the recognized sanctioning body. If you want to be sanctioned, you need to meet their requirements. Real simple.
There are a LOT of older threads on this - read them if you need a history lesson.
Mark Griffin
I think it is great that DP does these 14.1 events.
But to call it a 'World Tournament' is misleading the public and adding confusion.
Add in that DP has started their own Hall of Fame - (you would NOT have believed the first list of potential inductee - it was an embarassment to everyone).
Then add in that they have the audacity to cal lit the 73rd Tournament. That is an outright lie.
It is typical CW stuff and the purists get real tired of the dilution and confusion. DP needs to understand they are just cheapening their own company and the game they profess to love.
Eventually I would like to bring back the US Open Straight Pool Championship (we held it in 2007 at Qylmpics) - and a bunch of the 'events' that DP calls theirs are previous US Opens. That could get interesting.
All of this fighting is crazy and hurts the industry. But the WPA is the recognized sanctioning body. If you want to be sanctioned, you need to meet their requirements. Real simple.
There are a LOT of older threads on this - read them if you need a history lesson.
Mark Griffin
Again, the WPA is a governing and sanctioning body. Not a promoter of tournaments. They don't make the tournaments, they govern and sanction them.
There is a single governing body for pool. The WPA. Just because some offshoot wants to jump in and say he is also a governing body, does not make it so. No more than you stating you are holding the world championship in your basement next week, and when no one else shows up, you claim to be the world champ. Guys like CW are not a governing body, they are the guys that don't want to abide by the gov. body so they make up their own rules to everything and then claim they are legit. That would be fine if there was no governing body, but there is one.
To your last question- no. The reason being, would that player win it again if they held it immediately afterwards again? Not likely. He can claim his "fake" title, but that does not equate to being the best. It only means he won that tournament and can be considered one of the best. To be the best, you have to beat everyone a number of times. While the beginning of the tournament is round robin, the rest is single elimination. The "best" can never be determined by single elim.
Ok so it's not sanctioned, this is hardly an empty basement. Perhaps CW needs to play ball. Top guys do show up and they are taking steps in the right direction. Somebody needs to carry the torch whether you like it or not. Hell they meet a decent amount of the WPA criteria. If WPA sanctioning defines world championship than this event is not it.
I'll research it, and I know charlie keeps making moves that piss people off.
But if the sanctioning body's problem is prize money... maybe they need to relax that restriction?
Prize money is dependent on the economy. It's been tanking for everyone, like the US Open.
Didn't the world straight pool pay something like $20,000 for first prize last year?
If that's not enough, how much could they possibly expect?
I just feel like it's fair to call something a world championship, if it's got all the ingredients of one -
international field of the best players, prize money, promotion, and over a thousand fans watching.
Nothing else in straight pool can top it.
This is not me inviting some friends to my basement and labelling some amateur local joke as a "world event".
This is an ACTUAL world event advertising itself as a world event.
But if the sanctioning body's problem is prize money... maybe they need to relax that restriction?
Prize money is dependent on the economy. It's been tanking for everyone, like the US Open.
Didn't the world straight pool pay something like $20,000 for first prize last year?
If that's not enough, how much could they possibly expect?
I just feel like it's fair to call something a world championship, if it's got all the ingredients of one -
international field of the best players, prize money, promotion, and over a thousand fans watching.
Nothing else in straight pool can top it.
This is not me inviting some friends to my basement and labelling some amateur local joke as a "world event".
This is an ACTUAL world event advertising itself as a world event.
I don't like CW's antics either, but let us not forget the nice Dr. who puts up the money each year for this to go on.
He must be a real lover of the sport to continue to put up money for this.
THANK YOU.
He must be a real lover of the sport to continue to put up money for this.
THANK YOU.
While I am not arguing that this is a great tournament, it is NOT a World Championship.
The winner will be able to claim that they won a very tough straight pool event. But the WPA is there for a reason. They are the ones who determine what does and does not qualify as a World Championship.
Should the added money requirement for a World Straight Pool Championship be lowered? Maybe and maybe not. That is not for me to decide. There are pros and cons on each side.
The bottom line is that the WPA is not sanctioning this event as a World Championship. The players all believe it is, but it is not.
Thorsten is not a 2 time World Straight Pool Champion. He won it once when Charlie's event was WPA sanctioned and once when it was not.
I also personally believe that you can't take an event that hasn't happened in years and just adopt it as your own and pretend that you are now running that event.
There was no World 10-Ball Championship last year, so can Mark Griffin call his US Open 10-Ball event the 4th World 10-Ball Championship? It had a great field of players and good prize money. But no, he still can't just adopt another event's title and call it a World Championship. And no matter how many times Mark would call it a World Championship, it still would not be.
The winner will be able to claim that they won a very tough straight pool event. But the WPA is there for a reason. They are the ones who determine what does and does not qualify as a World Championship.
Should the added money requirement for a World Straight Pool Championship be lowered? Maybe and maybe not. That is not for me to decide. There are pros and cons on each side.
The bottom line is that the WPA is not sanctioning this event as a World Championship. The players all believe it is, but it is not.
Thorsten is not a 2 time World Straight Pool Champion. He won it once when Charlie's event was WPA sanctioned and once when it was not.
I also personally believe that you can't take an event that hasn't happened in years and just adopt it as your own and pretend that you are now running that event.
There was no World 10-Ball Championship last year, so can Mark Griffin call his US Open 10-Ball event the 4th World 10-Ball Championship? It had a great field of players and good prize money. But no, he still can't just adopt another event's title and call it a World Championship. And no matter how many times Mark would call it a World Championship, it still would not be.
Yeah I really roll my eyes when I see that "73rd" in the title of the event. It's too bad pool doesn't have an event that can trace it's lineage back there far, but you can't just pull a Picard and make it so. Serious question though who was the sanctioning body for 14.1 World Championships prior to the existence of the WPA? I'm just curious.