Karl Boyes should he have been called for a foul!

preacherman

preacherman

CPPA Founder
Silver Member
Just watched Quarter-Finals of Karl Boyes 8 – 7 Ralf Souquet. What a comeback from Karl Boyes! Fun to watch, but in one game towards the latter part of the match Karl had an obvious scratch as the cue ball was going down the rail toward the corner pocket. In Karl's frustration he hit the table with his cue stick and just after that the cue ball didn't scratch. I don't know the answer. That's why I'm asking.
Do you think Karl should have been called for a foul for hitting the table with his cue stick while ball was still in play?
 
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Regardless of whether or not it affects the path of the cueball, I think it should be a foul to disturb the playing surface of the table while the balls are in motion.
 
preacherman said:
Just watched Quarter-Finals of Karl Boyes 8 – 7 Ralf Souquet. What a comeback from Karl Boyes! Fun to watch, but in one game towards the latter part of the match Karl had an obvious scratch as the cue ball was going down the rail toward the corner pocket. In Karl's frustration he hit the table with his cue stick and just after that the cue ball didn't scratch. I don't know the answer. That's why I'm asking.
Do you think Karl should have been called for a foul for hitting the table with his cue stick while ball was still in play?
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The ball went right off the cushion as it went down the rail. There is no story. The blowhard announcing was just trying to create drama. Melling could hardly get a word in.
 
preacherman said:
Just watched Quarter-Finals of Karl Boyes 8 – 7 Ralf Souquet. What a comeback from Karl Boyes! Fun to watch, but in one game towards the latter part of the match Karl had an obvious scratch as the cue ball was going down the rail toward the corner pocket. In Karl's frustration he hit the table with his cue stick and just after that the cue ball didn't scratch. I don't know the answer. That's why I'm asking.
Do you think Karl should have been called for a foul for hitting the table with his cue stick while ball was still in play?
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I didn't see it, but I don't really understand how hitting his cue stick/shaft/tip on the table would affect the CB rolling towards the pocket? Still I agree, that kind of behavior when there were balls still moving on the table should result in an automatic unsportsmanlike foul, ball-in-hand for the opponent, I would have thought.
 
ChrisinNC said:
I didn't see it, but I don't really understand how hitting his cue stick/shaft/tip on the table would affect the CB rolling towards the pocket? Still I agree, that kind of behavior when there were balls still moving on the table should result in an automatic unsportsmanlike foul, ball-in-hand for the opponent, I would have thought.
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I just watched the video, now on youtube. The CB ball hit the side pocket point and was headed straight for the corner pocket, then, very strangely, the CB clearly hit a spec of chalk dust or something right around the headstring - roughly 2 diamonds from the corner pocket, which changed it's direction off the cushion, towards the corner pocket. Boyes thought for absolute certain he had scratched when he struck his cue on the cloth at the corner pocket where the CB was headed.

Although the CB would clearly not have scratched considering whatever it hit which knocked it off line, the fact that he struck his cue tip on the table right at the corner pocket - the very spot his CB then rolled over, I still think it should have been called a foul.

Not only did he not scratch, he proceeded from that point to run out the rack, in a game in which his opponent was on the hill, and then he came back to win the match, which does indeed make it a very controversial no-call, in my opinion.
 
Karl hitting the table with his shaft had no effect on the path of the cue ball. I've seen far worse many, many times by a myriad of pro players, who were showing their frustration about a bad shot or bad roll. Watch any of Earl's old matches (and new ones too) and you will see bad behavior in every one of them. He probably got more warnings than all the rest of the field combined in many of the events I worked on. And yes, he was called for fouls because of his behavior on more than one occasion (after he had already been warned).
 
ChrisinNC said:
I just watched the video, now on youtube.
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I'm happy for Karl Boyes and it was an awesome comeback and I don't think it had any affect on the path of the ball (that's not my issue). But it just seems pool lets a lot of things slide. And the gentleman that Ralf Souquet is in character he didn't say a thing. But the referee should of responded and didn't.
 
jay helfert said:
Karl hitting the table with his shaft had no effect on the path of the cue ball. I've seen far worse many, many times by a myriad of pro players, who were showing their frustration about a bad shot or bad roll. Watch any of Earl's old matches (and new ones too) and you will see bad behavior in every one of them. He probably got more warnings than all the rest of the field combined in many of the events I worked on. And yes, he was called for fouls because of his behavior on more than one occasion (after he had already been warned).
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For a pro player in a prestigious pro tournament, I just see it as a classless, lame act. Much like the player who, as the CB is rolling towards the corner pocket, puts his hand in the corner pocket dropoff to catch the CB before it falls in, then removes his hand at the last moment when he realizes it's not going to scratch.
 
ChrisinNC said:
For a pro player in a prestigious pro tournament, I just see it as a classless, lame act. Much like the player who, as the CB is rolling towards the corner pocket, puts his hand in the corner pocket dropoff to catch the CB before it falls in, then removes his hand at the last moment when he realizes it's not going to scratch.
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I agree that slamming the cue against the table is classless. But so many people attempt to catch a scratching ball instinctually. I don’t see it as classless, but it is something that people need to try to stop doing.
 
Non issue...hell, if an opponent wishes to ding his shaft, let him.

That match was a thriller. I'm beginning to like a winner breaks format.
 
Bob Jewett said:
For those who don't want to scan through an hour and a half of match, here is the shot:

https://youtu.be/4xmDL_HIEb0?t=1h15m20s

Maybe someone left a staple under the cloth by that rail.

It looks to me like the ball turned before he slapped the table.
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For sure it did.

It hit the point and started hugging the rail but the speed and spin of the ball took and made it come off the rail it looks like.

Not a big deal.
 
https://youtu.be/4xmDL_HIEb0?t=4540

Take a closer look. He didn't just hit the tip on the table. He hit the inside of the pocket on the same rail the ball was hugging. The ball then moved off the rail.

Freeze it the exact time where I posted the video.

I'm not usually upset at the antics of pool players expressing frustration but in this case it should have been a foul/unsportsmanlike conduct with the appropriate penalty. I don't believe it hit a "foreign object". The foreign object was Boyes' cue tip hitting the rail.
 
To my eyes it looks like he hits the table bed next to the pocket. Not the rail or the inside of the pocket. It would be surprising if this action could cause a ball to to roll off that much at the speed it was traveling. The tip of a shaft hitting the cloth two feet from a ball rolling on a table weighing 1000lbs:scratchhead:
 
alstl said:
https://youtu.be/4xmDL_HIEb0?t=4540

Take a closer look. He didn't just hit the tip on the table. He hit the inside of the pocket on the same rail the ball was hugging. The ball then moved off the rail.

Freeze it the exact time where I posted the video.

I'm not usually upset at the antics of pool players expressing frustration but in this case it should have been a foul/unsportsmanlike conduct with the appropriate penalty. I don't believe it hit a "foreign object". The foreign object was Boyes' cue tip hitting the rail.
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I think an unsportsmanlike foul should have been called, but I can't agree with you that his popping the tip of his cue 2-3 inches from the corner pocket is what caused the ball to all of a sudden drift away from the rail, starting around the headstring. He did it, just a split second after the CB stangely changed it's path off the rail. Hard to believe 1-inch thick slate would have vibrated the surface enough for the CB to change it's path off the rail, 2 feet away.
 
jay helfert said:
Karl hitting the table with his shaft had no effect on the path of the cue ball. I've seen far worse many, many times by a myriad of pro players, who were showing their frustration about a bad shot or bad roll. Watch any of Earl's old matches (and new ones too) and you will see bad behavior in every one of them. He probably got more warnings than all the rest of the field combined in many of the events I worked on. And yes, he was called for fouls because of his behavior on more than one occasion (after he had already been warned).
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Hey Jay! Yeah, I saw the shot, heard the commentary, and then when someone posted on Facebook, I actually quoted it as the "Frustration Tap". So many players have done that over the years it is immeasurable, lol!!
Right about Earl, also. I mean, if that were a crime, he'd be in Pro Pool Jail for Life!! :)
I just watched the Jayson Shaw/ Alex Pagulayan match. Shaw scratched more times than a Grandma with eczema!! Pags just couldn't get unwound!!
Okay, Back to the Matches. SVB Looking Good!!
Cheers, Jay!!
Carl
 
The cue ball is heading for the pocket, the player is sure it will scratch. He slams his cue on the table, in the cue balls path, it does not go in. Foul, every time. I can’t imagine what the ref was thinking. The three people involved did not have slow motion replay. Did the cue hit the cushion? Did debris from the cue, cause the cue ball to alter course? Those three didn’t know. Foul, every time.
 
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