LA Keith McCready vs Buddy Hall - You Be The Judge

[CJ Wiley]

Definitely no "foul play" in this match, they are shooting the lights out at the US OPEN. (click picture to watch this video) BUDDY HALL VS KEITH MCCREADY

This video was posted earlier in another thread suggesting that Keith uses TOI on 99% of his shots. I've always liked Keith's style of play and he does use a similar style as me......does he use TOI on most of his shots? You be the judge......JAM is featured mid way through

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHAG8YrXG8"]Click this link to see the match KEITH MCCREADY VS BUDDY HALL

[/URL]

 

[mr8ball]

I had the pleasure of watching keith play a few times. I feel if he is using TOI he doesn't know it. Its just his style of play. I have never thought he put much thought into his shots. He made ball so good it was no need for it JMO

 

[TX Poolnut]

Buckets on that table or what? Look at Keith's shot on the 3 in the last rack.

Thanks for the link. Great commentary from Billy too.

 

[Mikjary]

Here's a link from another thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHAG8YrXG8&feature=player_detailpage#t=1612

Keith crosses over the cue ball to the inside and firmly kills his cue ball with a similar system to TOI. The 6 and 7 balls are good examples to watch. Very quick, but there.

Best,
Mike

 

[CJ Wiley]

Keith had an "edge" that's for sure!

I had the pleasure of watching keith play a few times. I feel if he is using TOI he doesn't know it. Its just his style of play. I have never thought he put much thought into his shots. He made ball so good it was no need for it JMO

Yes, it was a lot of champion players style and it made their games into offensive weapons. Omaha John was the first champion player I saw use this technique that seemed to "float" the cue ball from position to position......it was equally effective with the heavier bar table balls too.

Keith could certainly "dab it" on the bar table, he used to give all the California players the 7 or even the 6 ball on the "bar box".....and they were some really strong players.

Keith had an "edge" that's for sure!

 

[Keith McCready]

Yes, TOI one of my biggest weapons. It took them a while to finally come up with the concept that the inside english is the teacher, and it definitely is. I use it a lot, and it was one of my weapons where I could inside-kill a ball and get easy shape, where a lot of the other players couldn't do it, couldn't figure it out, and if they tried it, it wasn't executed too well.

It is not used on all shots, but when moving the cueball from rail to rail, there's a touch of inside used a lot, outside lefts. There's all different sorts of englishes that are used engaging the rails. The more you choke up on your hand where you hold the cue stick and you shorten up your bridge hand using all the different drills, and the drills are motivated by ball speeds. It took me a while to learn this, a lot of practice, but this is where you're going to generate your speeds of touch, and the object is to be able to do that with variable "feels," not just one. I use about five or six, maybe seven or eight, so that's quite a bit. The key thing is to be able to master them with the seven or eight variables. Then you have mastered the teacher.

 

[CJ Wiley]

"pocket acceptance spin".

Buckets on that table or what? Look at Keith's shot on the 3 in the last rack.

Thanks for the link. Great commentary from Billy too.

Yes, the pockets are still soft early in the week.

The way these players pocket balls it also produces "pocket acceptance spin".

I just noticed Keith and I posted at the same time......thanks for your input, Bud, you were one of the very best at "stunning the stone"..

 

[His Boy Elroy]

Yes, TOI one of my biggest weapons. It took them a while to finally come up with the concept that the inside english is the teacher, and it definitely is. I use it a lot, and it was one of my weapons where I could inside-kill a ball and get easy shape, where a lot of the other players couldn't do it, couldn't figure it out, and if they tried it, it wasn't executed too well.

It is not used on all shots, but when moving the cueball from rail to rail, there's a touch of inside used a lot, outside lefts. There's all different sorts of englishes that are used engaging the rails. The more you choke up on your hand where you hold the cue stick and you shorten up your bridge hand using all the different drills, and the drills are motivated by ball speeds. It took me a while to learn this, a lot of practice, but this is where you're going to generate your speeds of touch, and the object is to be able to do that with variable "feels," not just one. I use about five or six, maybe seven or eight, so that's quite a bit. The key thing is to be able to master them with the seven or eight variables. Then you have mastered the teacher.

Post more often - would you? I just learned something!

 

[gxman]

i like the in-match beer drinking by keith! :thumbup:

 

[Johnnyt]

Yes, TOI one of my biggest weapons. It took them a while to finally come up with the concept that the inside english is the teacher, and it definitely is. I use it a lot, and it was one of my weapons where I could inside-kill a ball and get easy shape, where a lot of the other players couldn't do it, couldn't figure it out, and if they tried it, it wasn't executed too well.

It is not used on all shots, but when moving the cueball from rail to rail, there's a touch of inside used a lot, outside lefts. There's all different sorts of englishes that are used engaging the rails. The more you choke up on your hand where you hold the cue stick and you shorten up your bridge hand using all the different drills, and the drills are motivated by ball speeds. It took me a while to learn this, a lot of practice, but this is where you're going to generate your speeds of touch, and the object is to be able to do that with variable "feels," not just one. I use about five or six, maybe seven or eight, so that's quite a bit. The key thing is to be able to master them with the seven or eight variables. Then you have mastered the teacher.

And there you have it backed up by a no-fluff champion. TOI works, but you need to know when and how to use it. You can't just jump on the table one day and use it. I takes much practice as was said. Thanks Keith. Johnnyt

 

[Ken_4fun]

I read in an interview years ago that Keith said one of biggest advantages he had over other players is that he used inside English better than the majority of them.

Ken

 

[Mikjary]

Yes, TOI one of my biggest weapons. It took them a while to finally come up with the concept that the inside english is the teacher, and it definitely is. I use it a lot, and it was one of my weapons where I could inside-kill a ball and get easy shape, where a lot of the other players couldn't do it, couldn't figure it out, and if they tried it, it wasn't executed too well.

It is not used on all shots, but when moving the cueball from rail to rail, there's a touch of inside used a lot, outside lefts. There's all different sorts of englishes that are used engaging the rails. The more you choke up on your hand where you hold the cue stick and you shorten up your bridge hand using all the different drills, and the drills are motivated by ball speeds. It took me a while to learn this, a lot of practice, but this is where you're going to generate your speeds of touch, and the object is to be able to do that with variable "feels," not just one. I use about five or six, maybe seven or eight, so that's quite a bit. The key thing is to be able to master them with the seven or eight variables. Then you have mastered the teacher.

I definitely noticed a lot going on with your stroke. You finesse a good portion of your hits, catering them to the position needed. It seems you actually shoot more with your hand than with your arm.

Your post confirms exactly what CJ has been saying about cue stick control.

Best,
Mike

 

[Neil]

I definitely noticed a lot going on with your stroke. You finesse a good portion of your hits, catering them to the position needed. It seems you actually shoot more with your hand than with your arm.

Your post confirms exactly what CJ has been saying about cue stick control.

Best,
Mike

I guess you can read into it what ever you want to support your cause. He actually said the opposite of what CJ has been saying.

 

[pt109]

I guess you can read into it what ever you want to support your cause. He actually said the opposite of what CJ has been saying.

I don't know about opposite, Neil, but I kinda agree, in a way.

Keith uses inside for cue-ball control for position...so does Efren.
CJ uses it more for ball making consistency.

'course, I may stand corrected....nah, that wouldn't happen here, would it?

 

[Cory in DC]

I don't know about opposite, Neil, but I kinda agree, in a way.

Keith uses inside for cue-ball control for position...so does Efren.
CJ uses it more for ball making consistency.

'course, I may stand corrected....nah, that wouldn't happen here, would it?

Well, shape is mostly only useful when you make the ball, so the two (ball-making and position) basically go together. There's no inherent contradiction.

 

[West Point 1987]

You'll see it more clearly in this match, when the Earthquake was much closer to his top speed. Especially the first rack. You can see where he uses outside, but only to get shape...his default is a dead CB, killing it all over the place. Also interesting to contrast the 1988 Earl with today's Earl...you can see he was probably the top shot maker to walk the planet, but his CB wasn't nearly as well controlled as the 53 yo Earl's CB is today. Seems like even Earl learned as he went on...! And, for those that haven't seen Earl jump full cue, there's plenty of that here, too, putting most jumpers today (with the short cue) to shame. And yes, that's a Meucci...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHQw9T5uvyk

 

[pt109]

Well, shape is mostly only useful when you make the ball, so the two (ball-making and position) basically go together. There's no inherent contradiction.

I'm not saying it's a contradiction....but two different points of view.

...and I don't think I'm knocking CJ's TOI either...it can work...
...like the Ben Hogan draw.
But don't take it to a 6x12 with directional nap...if you can't find dead-ball
there, you're toast.

I just like to keep the terms straight...assent or dissent means nothing
if there is miscommunication. Even my hero, George Fels, confused inside
with outside english a few years ago, and he took some convincing....
....but he finally saw it.

 

[supergreenman]

Yes, TOI one of my biggest weapons. It took them a while to finally come up with the concept that the inside english is the teacher, and it definitely is. I use it a lot, and it was one of my weapons where I could inside-kill a ball and get easy shape, where a lot of the other players couldn't do it, couldn't figure it out, and if they tried it, it wasn't executed too well.

It is not used on all shots, but when moving the cueball from rail to rail, there's a touch of inside used a lot, outside lefts. There's all different sorts of englishes that are used engaging the rails. The more you choke up on your hand where you hold the cue stick and you shorten up your bridge hand using all the different drills, and the drills are motivated by ball speeds. It took me a while to learn this, a lot of practice, but this is where you're going to generate your speeds of touch, and the object is to be able to do that with variable "feels," not just one. I use about five or six, maybe seven or eight, so that's quite a bit. The key thing is to be able to master them with the seven or eight variables. Then you have mastered the teacher.

Post of the year award goes to............

TOI for certain shots, hard work on the table for all shots = no magic bullet.

I've never thought that TOI was a system, to me it's always been just another tool in the toolbox.

Is it a big deal? well kinda, but so is:
- knowing how to kill the backspin on the CB before it hits the object ball and what the result is.
- having different bridge lengths and grips for different shots
- having an understanding of how balls travel around the rails
- and a multitude of other specialized shots

These are advanced tools a player should have if they aspire to be more than a B player.

I still believe that aiming systems are like banking and kicking systems. They get you in the general area, but you have to do the real work.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

I guess you can read into it what ever you want to support your cause. He actually said the opposite of what CJ has been saying.

How was out the opposite? It pretty much backed up everything CJ has preached here. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but let's start the discussion and see if we can learn more. How's do you see keith's post as opposite of what CJ teaches?

 

[CJ Wiley]

during the 3 hour TOI session you can use the inside of the cue ball with confidence

And there you have it backed up by a no-fluff champion. TOI works, but you need to know when and how to use it. You can't just jump on the table one day and use it. I takes much practice as was said. Thanks Keith. Johnnyt

Well said, I try to point out the highlights of the TOI Technique, however, in writing it's impossible to communicate that type experience......I had to find a better way.

That's why I was encouraged (by this forum) to make a video demonstrating exactly how you learn to use TOI.....and after you put in the 3 hours that's necessary a new doorway of information opens and starts to flow. Inside english is no longer scary, because when you learn what the deflection actually does (during the 3 hour TOI session) you can use the inside of the cue ball with confidence.....not apprehension (like so many players do).

It does take practice, of course all things worthwhile do.

I come from a long line of great pool players and gamblers, and Keith and I have some of the same road partners (like Jr. Weldon and Billy Johnson). They played pool for one outcome and that was to win.......and to demoralize their opponents physically, mentally, and yes, financially too. 'Their Game was the Teacher'