Las Vegas & Pro Pool - What I am Talking about Here is the Future

book collector said:
You have some good ideas Lenny, and I know you have done whatever you possibly can to help promote professional pool, thank you, bud!
My question would be the economics.
Where will the money come from, especially at first?
I don't think the casinos will spend more money than they take in at first.
Second, most of the players have little money, so when they get there how will they survive unless they are in the top 10% or less of the winners every month.
Almost every time I ever saw pool players make money and have some left to gamble with each other was when there was a huge influx of cash from a drug dealer, bookie or some rich eccentric.
Then the trickle down theory works.
I know some of the players will have backers, but that means you have to win twice as often, which is going to really narrow the field of winners. Everyone else will be losers and won't be able to last long financially.
I think it is a viable idea if there is tv coverage sponsorships Pay Per View for top matches etc. but without those factors I just don't know how it would happen financially.
If those things are in the works, you my friend deserve to be involved and I wish you all the best.
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It would be just bringing in the existing major tournaments to begin with and then maybe other events would come about. I believe those along with Bonus Ball could make Las Vegas a pool mecca and most players would want to live there for that reason. If you add up what players spend in expenses each year and entries I would say its probably half what they make but I do not know for sure since they do not always win or cash either. Maybe one of them can chime in like John Schmidt or maybe Jay Helfert might have a better idea. The big things is as a promoter I would love to work close to home and have everyone come to me so logistically for the guys making the money it might not make sense but for pro pool players it would.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I have a place in Vegas now and go back and forth there, it is just another city for the most part to me. I like to gamble but not on sucker games so the casinos do not draw me in except for a buffet, would rather play poker or pool betting my money. I think some players would do just fine there and others might be broke but those guys are probably already broke. One thing is for sure there is always friends who you know coming into town a good deal who want to go out and have fun, I have to remind them I live here and if I went out every time a friend came into town I would be broke or dead, maybe both, haha.
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I did the LA Vegas commute for 20 years, I'm glad that's over(but Vegas was fun for a while). Do miss some people there tho.
 
Pro pool only works as viable where there is an actual business with management and support along with the labor/talent (the pros) are paid a quality income is to have the funding be external to the players. The business would need either customers (spectators) or distribution (cable sports/PPV) or or major sponsorship. The positive thing about Las Vegas as a pool mecca is the constant influx of visitors but how would you attract the spectators.

Pool would be competing against show girls/casinos/blue man/cirque de sole etc for sure a long list. Many shows occur 1,2 or 3 times a day they are on a limited seating basis people try/plan to visit these events and pay a big ticket price. Most Vegas events have duration in time 2hrs music/magic - 6hrs + MMA boxing. Pool tourneys last pretty long a pro match to 11 is probably 2 hours on one table. Do not think they could make it attracting paying viewers as a primary income stream like alot of other Vegas shows. I think a high end trick shot show could perhaps make it on the strip something could be done to support a single show perhaps 2 or 3 high-end players like Venom or Massey but a constant grind 20+ weeks a year or so of sports entertainment with 32,48 or more players. Wow I think it is a tough proposition good thought but really tough.
 
1on1pooltournys said:
Very good point. Vegas is okay for amateur leagues once a year to go out there and party and have fun. I would bet 90% of them come back busted or definitely with less money than they left with.

Who would be in the stands watching these events? I went to the pro 10 ball tournament in May last year and the attendance was embarrassing to say the least. Even the amateurs don't watch because..HELLO...ITS VEGAS BABY! Most of them are indulging themselves when they are not competing in the amateur tournaments.
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This is the biggest knock for Vegas. Way too many distractions for everyone involved. I agree that having pro pool centralized in one city would solve some problems I just don't know if it would make any real difference in the end though.

On the flip side one of the best things about living in Vegas is sooner or later everyone comes to you. Interesting thread topic.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I just think the problem is people want to hold big events in their backyards so to speak, look at DCC, Turning Stone, US Open or many others including Galveston. People get more bang for their buck in Vegas then in these places, would be cheaper for pros so they make more money. Most of these pro players do not enjoy going into the middle of nowhere and paying a ton of money praying to get at least 4th or 3rd place to break even.

I know many of you guys out there enjoy going to these in your neck of the woods once a year and it works great for fans who are local and also the promoter who lives nearby. I am really talking about pro players making a living which with the way things are is making it extremely unrealistic or practical for them and has been for a long time. One thing I hope as I stated before is that Mark Griffin buys the US Open 9 Ball name if he can and carry that tournament on but in Las Vegas instead where it can actually be successful, what is that name worth anyway?
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Doing events in Vegas is expensive as balls and a pain in the ass if you are talking about doing them in a casino. Between unions, mandatory room night numbers, constantly changing hotel staff you have to chase around endlessly and myriad other things.

The only reason any pro events are in Vegas is because there are 7000 amateurs in town that week covering the nut. It would be sweet to a casino get on board as the official home of pool but casinos only care about two things: how much money your group gambles and how many room nights your group books. Thats it. Strictly numbers.
 
A consideration for hosting a pool tournament (Professional) maybe better suited in a local casino off the strip. Plenty of them. Most of them currently host professional bowling tournaments. Almost all of them, have ammenities most strip casinos don't have. Example, Movie theaters, bowling alleys (some 24 hours) and less expensive restaurants and buffets and the rooms are much less expensive as well.

And your gambling dollars get better comps in local casinos as well. Just a thought. Most off strip casinos are only 10 to 15 minutes from the strip...
 
Well, i have been in the casino business for over 30 years and pool tournys just dont generate enough money for the hotels, i have been told this by upper management many times in the past.
Sure, when the annual event goes on at the Riv every year, they draw lots of people which is always a plus, but no big hitters or very few and if the casinos on the strip cant make the numbers worthwhile, they aint doing it.
If downtown had the space to accomodate them, im sure they would but theres no room. I was thinking of places like the South Point or the Sun Coast, they might want to handle it, maybe.
But it comes down to this : If the joints thought they could make money off the tournys, they would have been having them for years now, but i guess they cant.
Now if they had more players like the guy from Seattle (Not going to say his name) that almost everyone knows, im sure they would be having pool tournys more often, because this guy used to send it in real good on the crap tables. I dealt to him off and on for close to 25 years, very very nice guy.
I remember years ago when the town wasnt as big they had tournys at the Sands, the IP, the Riv, even Caesars for a bit, but no more.
Its pretty sad as far as im concerned.
 
I think it is a great idea and I hope it happens. Wait. No. I might get a flyer with escorts on it handed to me. Scratch that. :D
 
I don't understand how anyone thinks Las Vegas is central. That doesn't seem correct to me, geographically speaking. :embarrassed2:

We might as well say Western Australia is central. It has a land mass that's rather similar to the United States, with just over 2 million people. They are looking for foreign investment. Chevron, Exxon Mobil, and Shell are the principal investors. Japan is a significant investor in Western Australia with Mitsui, Sumitomo, Marubeni, Komatsu, and Toyota, and let's not forget China's investment if liquid natural gas in Western Australia.

We could have the Chevron/Exxon Mobil, and Royal Dutch Shell Open. First place prize could be a new Toyota. The cost would be affordable at the local lodging, and they are starved for foreign investment there.

Anywhere but Vegas sounds good to me. :smile:
 
Las Vegas spends billions of dollars a year on marketing and advertising LAS VEGAS

JAM said:
I don't understand how anyone thinks Las Vegas is central. That doesn't seem correct to me, geographically speaking. :embarrassed2:

We might as well say Western Australia is central. It has a land mass that's rather similar to the United States, with just over 2 million people. They are looking for foreign investment. Chevron, Exxon Mobil, and Shell are the principal investors. Japan is a significant investor in Western Australia with Mitsui, Sumitomo, Marubeni, Komatsu, and Toyota, and let's not forget China's investment if liquid natural gas in Western Australia.

We could have the Chevron/Exxon Mobil, and Royal Dutch Shell Open. First place prize could be a new Toyota. The cost would be affordable at the local lodging, and they are starved for foreign investment there.

Anywhere but Vegas sounds good to me. :smile:
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Las Vegas spends billions of dollars a year marketing and advertising LAS VEGAS Entertainment. Pool can be entertaining, however, to go up against the #1 Entertainment City in the world and compete on the same "playing field" on THEIR home court.....hmmm, what could possibly go wrong?
 
Fast Lenny said:
Make it a 40 and you have action. :D
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Since you got the inside scoop, I'm gonna take some odds. Put up a 40 of High Life, the champagne of beers...
millerhighlife4.jpg


to win that OE
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Because Vegas is Vegas IS the reason why I would hold pro tournaments there. :smile::smile::smile: It provides the average fans something else to entertain themselves. There is only so much the average fans can watch pool. :) As for the hardcore fans, you can hold tournaments in Antarctica, and they will still come to watch. :D So it doesn't matter.

The biggest con about Vegas is that it's not centralize.
 
CreeDo said:
I must be missing something. You're suggesting the fix to pro pool is for all pro pool players to simply move to the same city? Like live there?

I mean... what?
Don't these players have friends, families, homes?
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Friends? Yes, a few other pool players

Families? No

Homes? No
 
vapoolplayer said:
Until you're wondering why there's nobody in your arena, and you realize its because they are gambling, eating, watching shows.....etc.

You want people to actually pay to watch pool. Putting pool in a spot where everything is designed to take their money isn't a good way to get people to spend money on pool.
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This brings up a good point. Casinos want to generate traffic to their casino. Having a arena built for bonus ball does nothing if you have nothing to sell. Partnership with a casino and use of a ballroom would have been mutually beneficial. They generate traffic and bonus ball has a venue. They have goods and services and bonus ball has a venue with no construction delays and revenue from gate and pay per view.

Kd


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
vapoolplayer said:
Until you're wondering why there's nobody in your arena, and you realize its because they are gambling, eating, watching shows.....etc.

You want people to actually pay to watch pool. Putting pool in a spot where everything is designed to take their money isn't a good way to get people to spend money on pool.
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Well, we will never know until it actually happens. So there's really no point in debating something that most likely won't happen.

But consider these billiards facts that will back up my point:

1/ The BCA usually has the largest attendance rate when they hold shows in Vegas compare to other cities,

2/ CSI - formerly BCA used to hold their National tournaments in different cities - chose Vegas as its home for their National Tournament,

3/ APA chose Vegas as its home for their National Tournament,

VNEA, ACS chose Vegas as their permanent home, and TAP alternates Vegas as their home every other year, for their home for their Events.

These organizations obviously believe -and I am sure have done their due research - that Vegas is good for their business.

With the only exception of the SBE, all billiards shows in Vegas always have the largest attendance of vendors.
 
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