[League Etiquette] Is this rude or do I just need to lighten up?

[GeoEnvi]

Possibly the answer is both.

A guy on my team spends all his time at the practice tables and doesn't really want to play league matches. He's not a bad guy, but he treats it as a free pool night.

Anyway, he never wants to keep score, which we all know is a chore. But finally we told him he had to, if he wants to be on the team. Everyone takes his turn, usually right after playing their match.

He now does it, reluctantly, but still bolts for the practice table right after his match. Someone has to go fetch him to do his duty.

I go to do that and he insists "Come on, I just broke, let me finish this rack then I promish I'll go keep score". It's not that I didn't believe him, it's just... the players are already lagging. Someone has to fill out the shoot and score the first ten minutes of their match while he plays one more rack.

To me, that's just rude, but to him, waiting a few minutes and having someone else score for ten minutes is not a biggie. He claimed he thought they would wait for him, which I've never seen in the history of league... "hey, can you guys hold off on starting your match until our scorekeeper is ready?"

We had some strong words over it. Am I just being uptight?

If it's a team policy to share in the scorekeeping, I'd say that this player is being inconsiderate in not taking his fair share of the 'fun'.

That being said, I'd rather have 1 player on my team that spent pool night on the practice table, than 7 that spent pool night drinking, shooting, and keeping score.

 

[Chopdoc]

Chopdoc with the bold statement!

Seems like about a dozen other guys think he's a jerk, but if I'm reading you right he's just doing what any pool player wants to do... and due to the weird idea of 'team pool' he's now forced to choose between tedious paperwork or playing pool. Not his fault.

But, didn't he know the deal when he signed up? Is it ok to break an agreement you made, just because you think team pool is a broken concept in the first place?

What if he deeply loves throwing darts and he made someone wait on him while he threw some darts?

Seems he should know what he signed up for is not exactly compatible with simply wanting to shoot pool.


Bold? I dunno. To me pool simply has never been a team sport and the vast majority of the "issues" that I see come up with "league players" has to do with that basic fact.

I tried shooting on a team one season about 13 years ago, long after my "peak years" of active playing. I thought it might be nice to get back to pool. Didn't like it.

I am very much a "team player" in fact and have been so at a very high level professionally and otherwise, so that certainly wasn't the problem I think.


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[desertshark]

I'm joining a league for a.season coming up. I don't know how to keep score yet but plan on learning. I'm paying my fees, getting the membership and going the full distance.

I would never join a team and not plan on being a team player.

Sounds like you dump him off and move on.

Now let me ask this, if was a crappy pool player and can't hold his own on a table, would you keep him with these issues?

 

[CreeDo]

That just gave me a great idea. Pay the yearly fee and don't even join a team. Get 6 hours of practice time a couple times a week for $25 annually.

Man, thinking of it that way, I gotta admit it's a nice deal. That's almost exactly what's going through his head, he hates paying table time. Goes on and on about how nice it is to play on a good recently-clothed table... but turns down all invitations to play at the nice pool halls because it's too expensive.

I'd simply turn it over to the Captain. He could either keep score for the guy or resolve it.

I probably should have. He's a lot more level headed than I am. I ended being heard halfway across the pool hall I think. And the other guy half cocked a fist at me. I think it could have been handled better

I don't think your being rude at all..if it were me..I'd say hey..you really need to do your part man..every one else scores..some of us score many of the matchs..when was the last time you came up and ask to take over..I'm streight forward..I'm not up in their face..an do try an use tack..but if we have some one on the team thats not a team player..

That seems like a good way to do it. You're another guy who prolly would have handled it better. Your team's lucky they have a guy who apparently enjoys keeping score. Most of us would rather land nuts-first on a fencepost.

Retracting my knee-jerk thread-derailment. Instead I'll just say that as arbitrary as a team structure may be, the guy agreed to play on the team and I believe understand what the team's expectations of him would be. By agreeing to but not meeting those expectations, the guy should be dropped.

Very reasonable, though now I'm curious what the derailment was.

If it's a team policy to share in the scorekeeping, I'd say that this player is being inconsiderate in not taking his fair share of the 'fun'.

That being said, I'd rather have 1 player on my team that spent pool night on the practice table, than 7 that spent pool night drinking, shooting, and keeping score.

Really? How come? Keep in mind that it's not really a "practice table". It's a "fuсk around and shoot pool with your buddies" table. He's not spending his time improving.

Now let me ask this, if was a crappy pool player and can't hold his own on a table, would you keep him with these issues?

Well, we don't keep any crappy player usually =) We had a 2 for a whole season who kept losing and we had a hard time 'firing' her at the end of the season, but we did. But anyway... let's say instead of being a strong 6 he was a weak 6 with a 25% win rate. We'd still prolly keep him because basically we're all friends and we wanna shoot together as friends. We're not all dying to get to vegas.

I think though, for this coming season, I'm gonna be crystal clear... he does his scoring duties on every single night that he plays, and none of this "I'll do it right after I finish this game" crap. If he refuses to agree with that, one of us is out. It's not that I'm so put out by having to take over scoring for 10-15 extra minutes. It's just that I don't like when someone expects others to carry their weight.

 

[alstl]

I would make him pay every week but not let him play unless he takes his turn.

If he wants to just practice, take his money and ignore him.

 

[GeoEnvi]

Really? How come? Keep in mind that it's not really a "practice table". It's a "fuсk around and shoot pool with your buddies" table. He's not spending his time improving.

Why would I rather have him on the team?

Say what you want about him 'not practicing', but table time is table time. Sitting around and watching pool is great practice, too. But too often that time is not spent focusing on the games being played.

If the guy is at a table shooting pool, he's better for you in the long run then a guy sitting around pounding beers and "shooting the BULL" while waiting for his turn.

 

[manwon]

Possibly the answer is both.

A guy on my team spends all his time at the practice tables and doesn't really want to play league matches. He's not a bad guy, but he treats it as a free pool night.

Anyway, he never wants to keep score, which we all know is a chore. But finally we told him he had to, if he wants to be on the team. Everyone takes his turn, usually right after playing their match.

He now does it, reluctantly, but still bolts for the practice table right after his match. Someone has to go fetch him to do his duty.

I go to do that and he insists "Come on, I just broke, let me finish this rack then I promish I'll go keep score". It's not that I didn't believe him, it's just... the players are already lagging. Someone has to fill out the shoot and score the first ten minutes of their match while he plays one more rack.

To me, that's just rude, but to him, waiting a few minutes and having someone else score for ten minutes is not a biggie. He claimed he thought they would wait for him, which I've never seen in the history of league... "hey, can you guys hold off on starting your match until our scorekeeper is ready?"

We had some strong words over it. Am I just being uptight?

I think you guys should send the guy packing, he obviously doesn't know or understand the meaning of being a member a team.

Really Sad

 

[Dunnn51]

Etiquette

Hi CreeDo,

doesn't every team have someone like this??

I have the identical problem with a certain member on my team. Thing is: we only have 7 players to begin with and usually 1 has a commitment, so its 6 for the session. It's his "free-night", as league night here draws all the players, not just for team matches, but personal ones too.
As part of the team, he needs to "step-up" , and be a little mature about it. I could easily work on my problem shots in practice b-4 match time, but instead devote 85% of that time to helping the newer players on this new team. I am lucky to practice a few lags, and maybe get a few strokes before i'm into a match.
Shame him into it and he'll come around (once, lol), and see that he is being a little selfish toward league night.

Good Luck !

 

[CreeDo]

Why would I rather have him on the team?

Say what you want about him 'not practicing', but table time is table time. Sitting around and watching pool is great practice, too. But too often that time is not spent focusing on the games being played.

If the guy is at a table shooting pool, he's better for you in the long run then a guy sitting around pounding beers and "shooting the BULL" while waiting for his turn.

Well, as a player, he's fine. Wins close to 70%. A solid six. He's good for the team in that sense.

If we wanted the best team possible, no matter what, we can just live with it. But we're more about playing with friends and having a fun night out, and it puts a damper on things when one guy is neither serious about league, nor about hanging out with friends, and just seems to want to milk an opportunity for free table time.

 

[Chopdoc]

we're more about playing with friends and having a fun night out,

If your not interested in pool try bowling and let him play pool. Just a thought. :wink:










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[Matt90]

I love it !!

As we have seen for a long time, forcing pool to be a team sport when it clearly isn't just does not work.

A guy is looked down on for wanting to be at a table shooting pool? I simply do not see the up side to such a perspective.





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Could not of said it better myself. I guess I am not a "team player" either.I never liked the idea of a team of pool players .I have always had a loaner streak and used to actually find that was a common thing amoung players until someone talked me into leauges ,I did it for five years without incident but can't say I am ever going back .I guess I had to do it to get a real understanding that I like to play when I like to play, not on a team schedule .
If you want this guy to keep score just tell him it's part of being on a team.If he refuses let him go back to paying table time.He would probably come out better just to pony up a few hours of table time and not have to sweat it.

 

[RRfireblade]

Our rule is you score the match after yours , period. Everyone does it , no exceptions.

Don't like it then play somewhere else. No ones getting paid to chase people around the hall.

 

[8onthebreak]

I would take him

Well, as a player, he's fine. Wins close to 70%. A solid six. He's good for the team in that sense.

If we wanted the best team possible, no matter what, we can just live with it. But we're more about playing with friends and having a fun night out, and it puts a damper on things when one guy is neither serious about league, nor about hanging out with friends, and just seems to want to milk an opportunity for free table time.

I have diff views on this, but if I were a competing team captain I would relieve you of your problem. I'm the capt of a team now and I hate scoring. Fortunately on every team I've had over 15 years there's always been someone on the team that is good at scoring and DOESN'T MIND DOING IT. Doesn't mean they LOVE doing it...just that they really don't mind.

force people to do scoring results in f'ed up scorecards, and team arguments. Your team will have much drama because emotions are transferrable. If you are hot over scoring issues and other tiny issues, the team members will also start to stew about tiny issues. He end result is that your team will self destruct.

My advice, let someone score who likes it. If nobody likes to score, get rid of a non contributing member and replace with someone who wants to learn, and score.

I'd say get over it-I mean that affectionately.
Pool night is supposed to be fun. Let these guys enjoy their time out with the team away from their responsibilities. When pool becomes work, I better be getting paid some serious money for it, cuz I play to enjoy, not to work.

I give my players that same latitude, all I expect is they show up and take it seriously. Sounds like this guy shows and puts up W's almost every time he goes to the table!!! Who wouldn't want him? Don't make the doctor do tedious scheduling secretarial work.

I have a great idea, ...just walk away from scoring, and simply let the scorecard sit unscored...see who starts to score on their own...that's the one most likely to be your score keeper.

I think scoring should be done primarily by one person. They are really used to it and it's not tedious for them. It's no big deal.

The guy you are talking about, is not a numbers guy. It's tedious for him. He hates it. Why put him thru all that?

I've just NEVER heard of a team that had such a problem finding a score keeper...many people like to do it. Ive seen people fight over it, and I've seen captains so insecure that they wouldn't let anyone do it, for fear of losing their power. It's a powerful right. Do a takeaway, tell your team that from now on ...nobody touches the scorecard but you, lol.
are u sure that there's not more going on between you and him...are you just externalizing frustration on him thru score keeping?

Another words, is there more stuff that bugs you about this guy, or JUST SCORE KEEPING?

Just my thoughts,...wow, really makes me appreciate my players who just score, don't complain, and just play, win, and have fun. We have ZERO drama so far, I guess finding the RIGHT people to surround yourself with is equally as important.

Good luck with this guy and your problem, hope you work it out and W I N !!!

 

[ktbutterfly]

I don't know any true pool players that enjoy score keeping for an entire night. I let everyone know on my team that if they don't score a match then they don't play. Everyone wants to practice and play on the other tables but it's an obligation to the team. Luckily after the rule was set in place and mentioned to the whole team a couple of weeks in a row, it's been going very smooth for almost a year now. If he keeps it up, I'd put in a sub the following week and see if his attitude changes.

I should point out that even though I'm the captain, I was the only female on our team for the first 3 sessions, and it was expected that I would score and coach all night. Believe it or not, I like to practice, play tons of pool and have fun also, not just sit and score and don't know many players that do.

 

[onepocketron]

Where I play, there is no practice table once play starts. Tell him to get his butt over to the scoring table, not matter what he's doing. Tell you what, when it's the next persons time to score AFTER his turn to score, have them start going to the practice table and give him a dose of his own medicine. See how he likes it.

I agree with a previous post. Doesn't sound like he fits in chemistry wise. I've been on the same core team for 15 years and we have had some jackasses. They only lasted one year, not matter how good they played.

 

[CreeDo]

If your not interested in pool try bowling and let him play pool. Just a thought. :wink:

I'm twice as interested in pool as he is. And also a much better player. But somehow, I don't expect special treatment. When it's my turn to score, I get up and do it without complaint. I don't cry when I have to put down my cue for an hour.

Look at it this way. The only reason he CAN play pool is because he's on the team. He's broke and would be stuck at home otherwise. We give him a ride to the pool hall and several hours of free table time a week. The LEAST he can do in return is score a match.

[snip]

8onthebreak... I like your post. You make some good points. I don't wanna be that guy who quotes every sentence and replies accordingly so I'll just try to reply generally.

It's true that when he scores against his will he sucks at it and it's all f'ed up. And scoring drama leads to hot heads which causes poor shooting later. But IMO most of the reason he sucks at it is not because he's "Not a numbers guy", it's simply lack of practice. If he actually did it more than 5 times in his life, he'd find it's pretty simple. Like a lot of things, it's not so bad once you get used to it.

Part of why some people hate it is they know they lack scoring experience and it won't go smoothly... they scared of screwing up in front of everyone and getting into some debate over it. So they just keep ducking it.

"If nobody likes it, replace a non-contributing member" - ah, but non-contributing in terms of win rate? Or in terms of willingness to be a team player (show up on time, score as needed, get the packet, don't argue with the captain's choice, don't constantly ask to be put up first, or last, or not at all, etc.)?

"He's the doctor, don't make him do the secretary's work" - If there's a secretary available, I'd make her do the paperwork. But there isn't, so the team splits the chore evenly amongst all the doctors. It really stands out when one guy thinks he should get a free pass because he finds it tedious. We ALL find it tedious. I dunno where you find someone who doesn't but you're right, you're lucky.

You may be right about me being frustated about other things and letting it spill into the league. I won't go into a ton of details about the guy but let's just say he's not working 50 hours a week with a wife and 2 kids to deal with. He has kind of a teenager's mindset I think, and I resent that he's willing to let other people carry his weight. That resentment probably turned this into a bigger deal than it should have been.

 

[whoaaaa]

Didnt read through all of the comments, it was getting ridiculous.

First of all, when someone practices.... IT BENEFITS THE ENTIRE TEAM!!! Some people play for social reasons, others play for getting better. If you are against getting better, please let your teammates know right off the bat.

What people generally have a problem with is that your player isnt' pitching in on the scoring. I agree that he/she should be helping out, but the comments about the player "thinking of no one else but himself" comparisions need to stop.

I am one of those guys who need to loosen up prior to playing. I have a deal with my captain that some time during the night, i'll keep score for two matches. I have to loosen up before you put me in there. Playing as a 7 in 8-ball and 8 in 9-ball (not bragging post), I need some table time prior to shooting.

 

[Scott Lee]

Lots of differing opinions here, but the majority agree that the guy should take his turn scoring. When I was an APA LO 20 years ago, every team member, on every team in my league areas, was REQUIRED to know how, and participate in keeping score. That way there were no arguments.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[Chopdoc]

I'm twice as interested in pool as he is. And also a much better player. But somehow, I don't expect special treatment. When it's my turn to score, I get up and do it without complaint. I don't cry when I have to put down my cue for an hour.



Look at it this way. The only reason he CAN play pool is because he's on the team. He's broke and would be stuck at home otherwise. We give him a ride to the pool hall and several hours of free table time a week. The LEAST he can do in return is score a match.

Well it sounds as if he is inconsiderate. But that isn't exactly consistent with what you said earlier. You said you and the others were primarily interested in the social gathering etc, hence my comment.

Maybe, just maybe, he does not see it at all as expecting special treatment anyway. In fact most likely he does not see it that way. But that is the issue isn't it? Perspective.


You did ask for opinions on your position. It sounds as if you are already quite entrenched in your position on the matter and are not willing to lighten up about it at all. So get rid of him.




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[joelpope]

The guy is a jerk

Why would you choose to pollute your life having him around?

You randomly run into enough assholes in life, why schedule a once a week visit with one...