Lesson with Grady - freedom vs. security

Williebetmore

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Just an update for the straight pool fanatics, true lovers of fine pool, and pool cognoscenti (ie. SJM, Woody, and Rackin_Zack) - a shameless and unsolicited Grady Mathews testimonial.

I was fortunate to have the opportunity to spend a day with Grady Mathews (and of course his better half Randi). I can tell you that it was incredibly informative and entertaining. We played about 6 hours of straight pool, and about 2 hours of bank pool (with time in between for lunch and dinner).

I was once again struck by the incredible pool intellect of men like Grady (and of course Danny D.) who have played the game for so long, at such a high level. I cannot express how much I admire the strength of character that allows someone to make a living almost exclusively from pool for such a length of time - this CAN'T be an easy lifestyle. To give up the security of employment and home for the freedom of a life on the road is certainly "the road less travelled", and the people that successfully accomplish this are absolutely worthy of respect (I think there are damn few of them).

I also was again struck by the extreme elegance of pool as played by a master. I have been fortunate enough to play extended periods with 5 different players who have been at one time the best in the world at what they do (and I definitely include Grady in this number) - and fortunate enough to have them try to explain what they are doing and why they are doing it. These players excel not only because of their incredible physical skills, but also because of the keen, analytical thinking they bring to the table. I believe that these players bring an incredible pool intellect to the table - and they use every bit of cunning and knowledge to try to separate themselves from the rest of the good players. All were tremendous students of the game.

For anyone silly enough to prefer 9-ball to straight pool, I can only encourage you to take a lesson from The Professor or Danny D. - have them explain some of the intricacies of the game (it is NOT all covered in Capelle's book, much to my disappointment). You could not help but come away with a new found appreciation of the game.

Some of the high points we covered were advanced safeties. Grady showed me 7 different safeties I have NEVER seen before - devilish, devious, and truly inspired. This may not sound impressive, but I think I have almost every book ever written about pool and have almost all of the straight pool Accu-Stats video's. These safeties are all applicable to one-pocket, and some also to 9-ball.

Grady's game is a little different from Danny D.'s (I'll post a link at the end to the previous lesson descriptions with Danny) and it is a treat to be able to share the thoughts of such a player as he is playing. He seems to rely a little more on draw drag than slow-rolling (another technique I must master), but really seems to have a command of all the shots.

We covered break shot principles and variations, risk minimization, common patterns, tons of specialty shots, twisting banks, some kicks. Just an incredibly enjoyable day of pool. All of you that can't run a hundred need to dig down, and spring for a lesson or two with Grady or Danny - support the people that have devoted their life to the game.

Grady has a wealth of road experiences, and has lead a fascinating life. I heard some stories about such characters as Cole Dixon, Freddie the Beard, Danny D., Buddy Hall.

End of screed.

P.S. - Here are the Danny D. threads for anyone interested.

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=7430&highlight=Danny+DiLiberto

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=9910&highlight=Danny+DiLiberto
 
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Glad to hear it went well, Willie. If you really stopped and thought about how much top level pool Grady has seen in his pool lifetime, it would blow your mind. Much like Johnny Ervolino was, Grady is a walking encyclopedia of pool.

It's amazing how much you can learn if you just listen when guys like Grady talk. I was spoiled when I was young, getting to sweat some matches at the World 14.1 championships sitting next to guys like Irving Crane and Ray Martin. I recall about five balls into a rack, Ray Martin once commented to me "if he doesn't shoot the three ball right now, he probably doesn't run the rack." Sure enough, the guy didn't shoot the three, and he didn't get out, although, from my vantage point, the problem Ray saw coming didn't surface for a few more balls. Guys like Grady, Danny, Irving, and Ray simply saw things at the table guys like you and me could never see.

Like I said, though, if we're smart enough to listen carefully when guys like that talk, we can learn a whole lot about pool.

Strongly recommend you add Ray Martin to your list of supergurus whose brains you'd like a chance to pick. Jimmy Fusco would be a good one, too.
 
sjm said:
Glad to hear it went well, Willie. If you really stopped and thought about how much top level pool Grady has seen in his pool lifetime, it would blow your mind. Much like Johnny Ervolino was, Grady is a walking encyclopedia of pool.

It's amazing how much you can learn if you just listen when guys like Grady talk. I was spoiled when I was young, getting to sweat some matches at the World 14.1 championships sitting next to guys like Irving Crane and Ray Martin. I recall about five balls into a rack, Ray Martin once commented to me "if he doesn't shoot the three ball right now, he probably doesn't run the rack." Sure enough, the guy didn't shoot the three, and he didn't get out, although, from my vantage point, the problem Ray saw coming didn't surface for a few more balls. Guys like Grady, Danny, Irving, and Ray simply saw things at the table guys like you and me could never see.

Like I said, though, if we're smart enough to listen carefully when guys like that talk, we can learn a whole lot about pool.

Strongly recommend you add Ray Martin to your list of supergurus whose brains you'd like a chance to pick. Jimmy Fusco would be a good one, too.

SJM,
I neglected to mention some interesting stories were told about Jimmy Fusco and Johnny Ervolino as well. I believe that the next time I'm in Tampa (I think that is Ray Martin's territory) I will definitely try to get some time with Ray. Perhaps some time with SJM would also be advisable???

I will also agree that rack analysis, as you correctly point out, is an art form in itself. I believe my skill in that area is improving by leaps and bounds (all the way up to mediocre at this point); I have this strong feeling that if I could have one of our friends shoot for me, I could possibly direct them to a hundred ball run (certainly would be easier than actually learning to pocket balls myself :) :) ).
 
Sounds like a great time! I'm definitely going to try to leach some of the information off of you in Peoria...lol.
 
Grady Rules

I have been a grady matthews fan for years, i have met him a few times in a friends pool room in washington pa. he is a true gentlean and loves the game and fans dearly. i have every video and book from the professor, and highly recomend them. If you want to learn banks, kicks, safes and one pocket this is the man to learn from. JUst my 2 cents,.
 
Mind if I ask how many thousand this personal lesson you had with him set you back?

Shorty
 
Williebetmore said:
.....Perhaps some time with SJM would also be advisable..........

Well, my knowledge isn't exactly on a par with the others mentioned in this thread, but, as you already know, I can talk pool theory for hours and hours, and have even conned a few into listening over the years!

One thing I have to ask you, though, Willie, is why straight pool defense seems to fascinate you while nine ball defense doesn't --- especially as you always post about how passionate all the old masters are in the areas of patience, discipline and risk management over the green felt.
 
sjm said:
One thing I have to ask you, though, Willie, is why straight pool defense seems to fascinate you while nine ball defense doesn't --- especially as you always post about how passionate all the old masters are in the areas of patience, discipline and risk management over the green felt.

SJM,
Nine-ball defense is significantly less interesting to me for 2 reasons.

#1 The LUCK FACTOR in the kicking game!! It just seems there is a tremendous amount of luck involved in getting a good result from a kick. Yes, you can try to maximize your chances of a successful result by kicking at the appropriate speed, and at the appropriate side of the object ball; but there is still a huge amount of luck. It just seems that too many racks among champions are decided by a good or bad roll in this area (ie. I kick, make a great 3 rail contact, and the object ball rolls the length of the table leaving my opponent an easy combo on the 9. Or my opponent kicks, hits the object ball and then the cue ball travels 3 more rails, kisses off 2 more balls, and pockets the 9. Or I break making 6 balls, whitey in the center of the table, but no shot. Or my opponent breaks, makes no balls, leaves me no shot, no kick, and a wide open table. These scenarios have no place in deciding a championship match IMO).

#2 My own MEDIOCRITY. As you know, I am relatively new to the advanced principles of the game. As a result, I have found it helpful to ignore strenuous practice of kicking, power breaking, and banking, and to concentrate on ball pocketing and shots and safeties peculiar to straight pool (and, of course, to criticize as much as possible 9-ball as a championship game - in this way my fragile ego is not as upset by my serious 9-ball shortcomings). The straight pool league in which I compete is WAY more fun than the local 9-ball tournaments (though I do enjoy competing - I don't let the luck factor bother me at all - it's just the game). I would find it less exciting to practice kicking and banking for the endless hours it would take to become proficient in that area (though our friend has a new billiards table that I'm probably going to be forced to use). Give me a little time, perhaps I'll come around. At this point you have gotten me to enjoy watching the defensive game a little more - perhaps I will eventually try to learn to play it.
 
Shorty said:
Mind if I ask how many thousand this personal lesson you had with him set you back?

Shorty

Yeah, I'd like to know the prices some of the top pros charge for lessons if anyone knows.

skippy
 
Shorty and Skippy,
Lessons with the pro's are usually $50 to $100 per hour. You can Google Grady Mathews and find his website - details are there on arranging lessons. Finding Danny D. is a bit more difficult. ZigZagMaster will probably know how to contact him (or I could possibly call him for you if you are serious about lessons).

In my opinion the lessons are VERY worthwhile. I love the game, and I don't have the time or inclination to spend 50 years on the road accumulating this knowledge. These gentlemen are willing to share their hard-earned expertise; and I can assure you that most of their teachings are NOT to be found in any book. I am very grateful, because when I was growing up, this type of knowledge was definitely not shared (to the detriment of the game). If I had these guys teaching me when I was a teenager, I would be giving Efren the 7 now (well maybe only the called 8).
 
Williebetmore said:
Some of the high points we covered were advanced safeties. Grady showed me 7 different safeties I have NEVER seen before - devilish, devious, and truly inspired. This may not sound impressive, but I think I have almost every book ever written about pool and have almost all of the straight pool Accu-Stats video's. These safeties are all applicable to one-pocket, and some also to 9-ball.

How about showing us the WEI of these. I am intrigued!
 
Black-Balled said:
How about showing us the WEI of these. I am intrigued!

BB,
I'm running late right now. If there is any interest, I may diagram a few of them this weekend - they are tremendous. If I had known these safeties last year I would have won our league (finished second, lost 100-88 in the championship match after a decent safety that needed to be better :( :( ).
 
Pool would be a lot better off if it had more people like "Willie". He and his wife, Liz rolled out the red carpet for Randi and me. The eight hours I spent working on W's straight pool game were very enjoyable.
We met his nice family and had a lovely evening sitting around talking into the late hours of the evening.
In addition to being a terrific cook, Liz also serves as a tour guide. She took Randi to a historic museum and I'm still hearing about that.
She suggested a route for my daily run which was scenic. We look forward to returning to enjoy more of the many things this wonderful area has to offer.
We hope Don and Liz can come visit us to enjoy a bit of southern hospitality one of these days.
 
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straight pool fanatics

Williebetmore said:
Just an update for the straight pool fanatics, true lovers of fine pool, and pool cognoscenti (ie. SJM, Woody, and Rackin_Zack) - a shameless and unsolicited Grady Mathews testimonial.

I was fortunate to have the opportunity to spend a day with Grady Mathews (and of course his better half Randi). I can tell you that it was incredibly informative and entertaining. We played about 6 hours of straight pool, and about 2 hours of bank pool (with time in between for lunch and dinner).

I was once again struck by the incredible pool intellect of men like Grady (and of course Danny D.) who have played the game for so long, at such a high level. I cannot express how much I admire the strength of character that allows someone to make a living almost exclusively from pool for such a length of time - this CAN'T be an easy lifestyle. To give up the security of employment and home for the freedom of a life on the road is certainly "the road less travelled", and the people that successfully accomplish this are absolutely worthy of respect (I think there are damn few of them).

I also was again struck by the extreme elegance of pool as played by a master. I have been fortunate enough to play extended periods with 5 different players who have been at one time the best in the world at what they do (and I definitely include Grady in this number) - and fortunate enough to have them try to explain what they are doing and why they are doing it. These players excel not only because of their incredible physical skills, but also because of the keen, analytical thinking they bring to the table. I believe that these players bring an incredible pool intellect to the table - and they use every bit of cunning and knowledge to try to separate themselves from the rest of the good players. All were tremendous students of the game.

For anyone silly enough to prefer 9-ball to straight pool, I can only encourage you to take a lesson from The Professor or Danny D. - have them explain some of the intricacies of the game (it is NOT all covered in Capelle's book, much to my disappointment). You could not help but come away with a new found appreciation of the game.

Some of the high points we covered were advanced safeties. Grady showed me 7 different safeties I have NEVER seen before - devilish, devious, and truly inspired. This may not sound impressive, but I think I have almost every book ever written about pool and have almost all of the straight pool Accu-Stats video's. These safeties are all applicable to one-pocket, and some also to 9-ball.

Grady's game is a little different from Danny D.'s (I'll post a link at the end to the previous lesson descriptions with Danny) and it is a treat to be able to share the thoughts of such a player as he is playing. He seems to rely a little more on draw drag than slow-rolling (another technique I must master), but really seems to have a command of all the shots.

We covered break shot principles and variations, risk minimization, common patterns, tons of specialty shots, twisting banks, some kicks. Just an incredibly enjoyable day of pool. All of you that can't run a hundred need to dig down, and spring for a lesson or two with Grady or Danny - support the people that have devoted their life to the game.

Grady has a wealth of road experiences, and has lead a fascinating life. I heard some stories about such characters as Cole Dixon, Freddie the Beard, Danny D., Buddy Hall.

End of screed.

P.S. - Here are the Danny D. threads for anyone interested.

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=7430&highlight=Danny+DiLiberto

http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=9910&highlight=Danny+DiLiberto

Willie- I like the game a little, too. I'd be interested in anything you could pass on that you learned from Grady. I met him once and he was nothing if not a gentleman. I enjoy his commentary on a lot of the straight pool match vids I have. Dennis
 
dmgwalsh said:
Willie- I like the game a little, too. I'd be interested in anything you could pass on that you learned from Grady. I met him once and he was nothing if not a gentleman. I enjoy his commentary on a lot of the straight pool match vids I have. Dennis

OT, Dennis, but YOU just struck a milestone by making the 100,000th post on the Main Forum at AzBilliards! :cool:

JAM
 
Williebetmore said:
SJM,
Nine-ball defense is significantly less interesting to me for 2 reasons.

#1 The LUCK FACTOR in the kicking game!! It just seems there is a tremendous amount of luck involved in getting a good result from a kick. Yes, you can try to maximize your chances of a successful result by kicking at the appropriate speed, and at the appropriate side of the object ball; but there is still a huge amount of luck. It just seems that too many racks among champions are decided by a good or bad roll in this area (ie. I kick, make a great 3 rail contact, and the object ball rolls the length of the table leaving my opponent an easy combo on the 9. Or my opponent kicks, hits the object ball and then the cue ball travels 3 more rails, kisses off 2 more balls, and pockets the 9. Or I break making 6 balls, whitey in the center of the table, but no shot. Or my opponent breaks, makes no balls, leaves me no shot, no kick, and a wide open table. These scenarios have no place in deciding a championship match IMO).

#2 My own MEDIOCRITY. As you know, I am relatively new to the advanced principles of the game. As a result, I have found it helpful to ignore strenuous practice of kicking, power breaking, and banking, and to concentrate on ball pocketing and shots and safeties peculiar to straight pool (and, of course, to criticize as much as possible 9-ball as a championship game - in this way my fragile ego is not as upset by my serious 9-ball shortcomings). The straight pool league in which I compete is WAY more fun than the local 9-ball tournaments (though I do enjoy competing - I don't let the luck factor bother me at all - it's just the game). I would find it less exciting to practice kicking and banking for the endless hours it would take to become proficient in that area (though our friend has a new billiards table that I'm probably going to be forced to use). Give me a little time, perhaps I'll come around. At this point you have gotten me to enjoy watching the defensive game a little more - perhaps I will eventually try to learn to play it.

Straight pool defense is probably, on average, a little more difficult to execute than nine ball defense, but I'd argue that nine ball defense, because it can be played at the same time you play offesne, is far more interesting.

I'll make it one of my personal goals in Peoria to sensitize you to some of the the nuances of nine ball defense to help you appreciate it more. Hope this comment won't scare you away from attending!

Of course, stating the obvious, straight pool remains the more fascinating game.
 
sjm said:
I'll make it one of my personal goals in Peoria to sensitize you to some of the the nuances of nine ball defense to help you appreciate it more. Hope this comment won't scare you away from attending!

Of course, stating the obvious, straight pool remains the more fascinating game.

SJM,
I agree that the 2 way shot is an interesting concept - if only I could recognize them more readily. I look forward to an SJM primer in Peoria (I think you started a little bit last year).
 
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