Low Deflection shafts, Are they worth it?

 
slide13 said:
Not all top pros, but some are definitely in that category:

Adam Scott
http://www.golfwrx.com/304536/adam-scott-witb-2015/

Greg Owen
http://www.golfwrx.com/309486/greg-owen-witb-2015/

Robbie Shelton
http://www.golfwrx.com/315294/robbie-shelton-witb-2015/

Rory McIlroy
http://www.golfwrx.com/276725/rory-mcilroy-witb-2015/

Zach Johnson
http://www.golfwrx.com/345504/zach-johnson-witb-2016/

Webb Simpson
http://www.golfwrx.com/301798/webb-simpson-witb-2015/

Ricky Fowler
http://www.golfwrx.com/333836/rickie-fowler-witb-2016/

Luke Donald
http://www.golfwrx.com/353746/luke-donald-witb-2016/

Ian Poulter
http://www.golfwrx.com/352678/ian-poulter-witb-2016/
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That's some top players... & more than I would have thought but a couple of those are sort of like the old Wilson Goose Necks. They're game improvement 'blades'.

But what about the club probably hit most other than the putter. Are any of them hitting Small Persimmon Wood Headed Drivers?

The thing is IF the small persimmon driver is hit on the screws in the center of the face it will hit nearly as good as anything today. It's about the slight miss hit.

If solid maple & LD are both hit on center then the LD makes no difference.

The LD is about off center hit either accidentally or on purpose.

They can save a shot & the variance of aim is less. Both good things.

Best 2 Ya,

PS If any of those golfers loose a tournament because of one bad iron shot, they have no one to blame but themselves for not doing the BEST they can by playing better equipment. Even Jack Nicklaus went to very slight forged cavity backs by MacGregor.
 
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Depends on you. Personally I hate them, especially production ones. Imo, no shaft is going to play/hit better then the shaft the cue maker made for your cue.

I know a lot of people that swear by them and I have hit with a few of them that piqued my interest a bit, but not enough the change the feel of my current setup, not to mention the adjustment period of having to get used to it after shooting with regular shafts for 16 years is not something I want to go through.

Imo, you really need to try it for yourself. Some love them, some hate them.
 
ENGLISH! said:
I hear you. I said technically because I did not want an answer of like or feels better.

I was looking for an advantage. You bring up familiarity & that should be considered but then no other shaft would be in the running for being better even if it was guaranteed to make the shot.

But if you played with an LD shaft that you liked, maybe not as much as that Joss shaft, for a period of time & then that shot came up...

would you go back to Joss or use the shaft that you've been playing with for say the last 3 or 4 months.

It took me very little time to adjust & I'm not going back. I tried it a while ago & it convince me.

Earl has said that he could never go back to a standard length shaft.

It's human nature, I think, to not want or like change, but when one understands & sees benefit, it make change easier.

Best to Ya,
Rick
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It seems these days that people don't tend to play the same cue or shaft as long as we used to. People change more often. Advantage or disadvantage? Hard to say and perhaps worth discussing.

At this point perhaps we should clarify that not all LD shafts are laminated anyway, so a non-laminated wood shaft that uses LD technology would certainly qualify in this conversation.

At this point in time I do still keep going back to my Joss. Could that change? Sure, I guess it could. But with each passing year I think it gets less likely.

I am loving my Huebler at the moment and although it has traditional wood shafts they are VERY different from the Joss shafts.

But I would still reach for my Joss if my life were on that shot.

As far as what Earl says, well, he says a lot of things. :D



.
 
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Just ordered a schmelke, heard good things. Looking forward to it. First USA cue!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'll pass on what we are actually discussing, "high deflection" shafts, what they actually are and should be called.
 
Icon of Sin said:
Depends on you. Personally I hate them, especially production ones. Imo, no shaft is going to play/hit better then the shaft the cue maker made for your cue.
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And I have the exact opposite opinion - I will not, never ever, no way in hell, play a custom cuemaker shaft.

Mass market has a lot to offer - quality control, warranty, and also - if your shaft breaks you simply get a new one and it will feel very similar.

On the main topic: try one and use one if you like it. Don't ask if you should and how people feel about this.The hit will be different, the things you can do with it are amazing - for example long shots with English where you actually aim at where the ball will go.

Cheers,
M
 
M.G. said:
And I have the exact opposite opinion - I will not, never ever, no way in hell, play a custom cuemaker shaft.



Mass market has a lot to offer - quality control, warranty, and also - if your shaft breaks you simply get a new one and it will feel very similar.



the things you can do with it are amazing - for example long shots with English where you actually aim at where the ball will go.



Cheers,

M
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You do understand the exact same description of yours I've quoted above can apply to a standard maple shaft. I can shoot any shot from any length with any type and amount of spin I want & the ball will go exactly where I aim & I want it to go.

The difference is I have put in the time to understand squirt & adjust subconsciously for it. Your statement is true in that it allows you & others to do this with these LD things WITHOUT having to put in the time & learn about squirt.

It's kind of how training wheels allow you to ride a bike without having a conception of how to remain upright without them due to inexperience. But as you pedal around on training wheels you look around and see plenty of people riding around WITHOUT needing them, they put in the time & learned how. LD is a crutch for the uninitiated.
 
I really should stay out of this debate, BUT :wink:

I have spent hundreds of hours and way too much money to try out different shafts and how they affect my game.

I have come to a conclusion that one can adjust their game to any decent shaft, LD or not. However, I have developed an understanding of how I expect squirt and CIT to work together and how I need to compensate in order to make the shot. I am very quick adjusting between shafts, but when in a pressure situation I always fall back on the perceived view in my head of what I expect to happen. Here the shaft becomes the part that makes a difference. When I am playing with shaft that I am used to, I dont often miss or even think about adjusting aim. This leads to consistency, as I can allow my subconcious to take over and make the pot.
I have learnt that my feel for shots with spin is best suited for a somewhat LD (pre cat 314 in my case ) shaft, anything else causes me problems when the pressure is tense. I easily forget to compensate and too much or too little squirt misses the pot for me.

That said, I can adjust conciously to pretty much anything, but there tends to be a sweet spot for many players when it comes to deflection etc.
The point is that we must all take the time go get used to our own gear. Figure out something that plays close to what you expect and stick with it untill it becomes an extension of your arm. Starting this process with a shaft that feels nice and plays as you tend to expect will most definitely become familiar to you than a shaft that plays nothing like you think in your head.

Some like to adjust more than others, this a personal matter for each and everyone of us to decide for ourselves. I have found what is good for my game, through trial and error, so will anyone else if they devote enough time to do so. Most importantly, when something feels right for you, stick with it. Dont change shafts if you are having an off day, we all have them sometimes. Consistency is the name of the game.


Play well with what ever you like :smile:
 
I saw an old thread revived earlier this week on how the Taiwanese players tend to not use LD, preferring maple shafts & one of the Taiwanese pros explained it best I think.

He commented that they as players prefer maple shafts for their "power" which LD with its dead feel lacks in their opinion. Most importantly he pointed out that LD seems to compensate for a bad stroke or bad stroke mechanics. That if you have proper stroke mechanics & a good stroke and actually "stroke" the ball instead of "hitting" the ball that deflection is a non issue. I said it in that thread & I'll say it again here, that's a pretty smart guy that gets it.
 
M.G. said:
And I have the exact opposite opinion - I will not, never ever, no way in hell, play a custom cuemaker shaft.

Mass market has a lot to offer - quality control, warranty, and also - if your shaft breaks you simply get a new one and it will feel very similar.

On the main topic: try one and use one if you like it. Don't ask if you should and how people feel about this.The hit will be different, the things you can do with it are amazing - for example long shots with English where you actually aim at where the ball will go.

Cheers,
M
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is that why i was given a predator because the owner wanted me to take it and get rid of it or whatever he said before he thew it away? Oh the ferrule broke for the 3rd time, and he does't hit hard at all, i know the guy very well...they refused to live up to their warranty.

shafts aren't warranted for breakage of the wood, because you have to do something very bad to do that lol......warpage and ferrules/joint is whats warranted from my understanding????

i'm sure there are plenty of produciton owners who can comment.
 
Colonel said:
You do understand the exact same description of yours I've quoted above can apply to a standard maple shaft. I can shoot any shot from any length with any type and amount of spin I want & the ball will go exactly where I aim & I want it to go.

The difference is I have put in the time to understand squirt & adjust subconsciously for it. Your statement is true in that it allows you & others to do this with these LD things WITHOUT having to put in the time & learn about squirt.

It's kind of how training wheels allow you to ride a bike without having a conception of how to remain upright without them due to inexperience. But as you pedal around on training wheels you look around and see plenty of people riding around WITHOUT needing them, they put in the time & learned how. LD is a crutch for the uninitiated.
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I disagree a bit.

I shot with english & regular maple for more than 45 years.

I switched & adjusted very quickly.

It is not a crutch to me. It is just a different & perhaps better tool.

I would suggest less squirt to everyone.

I would also suggest that everyone learn & understand what squirt is & even how to treat it as tool & not an enemy.

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
 
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Bank it said:
I saw an old thread revived earlier this week on how the Taiwanese players tend to not use LD, preferring maple shafts & one of the Taiwanese pros explained it best I think.

He commented that they as players prefer maple shafts for their "power" which LD with its dead feel lacks in their opinion. Most importantly he pointed out that LD seems to compensate for a bad stroke or bad stroke mechanics. That if you have proper stroke mechanics & a good stroke and actually "stroke" the ball instead of "hitting" the ball that deflection is a non issue. I said it in that thread & I'll say it again here, that's a pretty smart guy that gets it.
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I've told people to watch the Taiwanese and Chinese players for years. They play with regular maple shafts and they are usually thicker than most people on here prefer (they prefer around 13mm, or so).

They also tend to play with a more "center ball" style than most people play with, but they get the job done and are some of the best pool players in the world.

They make pool look "simple", because they don't do anything "fancy". They just get the job done...OVER and OVER and OVER.
 
ENGLISH! said:
I shot with english & regular maple for more than 45 years.
I switched & adjusted very quickly.
It not a crutch to me. It just a different & perhaps better tool.
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Glad to hear you've adjusted and have fun with the shaft. Was it the Player's HXT? I forgot.
Also saying it's a "tool" is very much to the point :grin-square:

And HawaiianEye: Again, whatever you like. Some like something different better.

Cheers!
M
 
Are they worth it? I would say yes. Are they better? I would say it depends on the player. I shot with regular maple shafts most my life. Tried LD shafts and hated them. Went back to maple. Decided to give LD shafts another try but this time stick with it. Learn to adjust. Some things I liked and some I did not. Banking for me was like starting all over. Did not give up on them but bought a new cue with regular maple shafts. Doubt I will ever go back to LD. However, I would say I played about the same with both. Each have their advantages and disadvantages. At least from my perspective.
 
M.G. said:
Glad to hear you've adjusted and have fun with the shaft. Was it the Player's HXT? I forgot.
Also saying it's a "tool" is very much to the point :grin-square:

And HawaiianEye: Again, whatever you like. Some like something different better.

Cheers!
M
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My first one, that I still have, was a juiced, sanded down, Predator 314 Cat. It has the lowest squirt of any shaft that I have hit, but I do not like the whippy thing, nor being so thin at the bridge are... not swerving across the line on full table shots.

I then got an OB Classic & McD i2. I like them both but I think the OB is a bit better.

Then I got an OB Pro 29" & later a 30" & I really like them as I learned with & played for 25 years with a European/Conical tapered shaft & that is what these are.

IF the game survives & that is a rather large if IMO, at least professionally, I can see a day where a player will have at least 3 playing cues with at least different tips if not other different playing characteristics, provided the rules do not prohibit that.

Golfers did not always carry 14 clubs.

Best Wishes for You & Yours & All.
 
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