But it helps the manufacturers reduce costs.
Too bad that savings isn't passed on to the consumer.
Lucasi = junk?
- Thread starter smokyvocals
- Start date
But it helps the manufacturers reduce costs.
Too bad that savings isn't passed on to the consumer.
Brunswick Made in China
Yeah, that is sad. China's labor is dirt cheap, they have no regulations for workers, very doubtful there is any work comp provisions for injuries, etc.
If you can't work they just grab the next guy who can. 1.2 billiion people live there !! So they are not going to run out anytime soon.
Plus, they can pollute all they want and do basically anything they want as long as it is producing goods. I hope folks chose an Olehausen, or other American made brand table over a Brunskwick. A great American name gone down the drain IMHO !!!
I use to take a lot of crap for buying foreign cars, but most of the Japanese build their cars in US now. Toyota has plants in TX, KY, and CA.
As does Honda and Nissan, and many others. Heck, even BMW and Mercedes are building here now !!!
Yeah, that is sad. China's labor is dirt cheap, they have no regulations for workers, very doubtful there is any work comp provisions for injuries, etc.
If you can't work they just grab the next guy who can. 1.2 billiion people live there !! So they are not going to run out anytime soon.
Plus, they can pollute all they want and do basically anything they want as long as it is producing goods. I hope folks chose an Olehausen, or other American made brand table over a Brunskwick. A great American name gone down the drain IMHO !!!
I use to take a lot of crap for buying foreign cars, but most of the Japanese build their cars in US now. Toyota has plants in TX, KY, and CA.
As does Honda and Nissan, and many others. Heck, even BMW and Mercedes are building here now !!!
I work for Chrysler, so Im kind of biased. I always buy what I build, and even though we are an "Italian" company now, I still look at it like its an American company. Im actually working over in Belvidere, IL for now. Japanese car plants that are built here in the US are non-union, with lower pay and benefits. I have never met a blue-collar worker who retired from a Japanese car company. Im not saying they are not out there, but they are few and far between. Im not mad at anyone for buying a Japanese car, but it pisses me off when people complain about losing their jobs, then turn around and buy a Kia or Hyundai. You cant have it both ways.
Joe
sure the savings are passed on, otherwise GC5's would cost $10K wholesale not $4700.
Its more than economics that drives biz to China, OSHA, EPA, Anti-Trust laws(Intel just got popped by the FTC) and a list of other Govt BS that makes business so expensive and complicated that it just isnt worth it, then there are the civial class action lawyers that create civial lawsuits, and the defendant is responsible for the plaintiffs legal fee's ever if the defendant(business) wins the case-how nice is that?
PEople who work for a living dont see all this, the people who own and run businesses do. thats not a knock, its just a fact, none of my employees had a clue about what was going on behind the scenes-they thought we were fat cats getting high and hanging out at the beach, life should be so easy-but it aint, you have to fight like hell to keep a biz operating here and then they want 50% of the $$$ for taxes and perhaps 5% more for the new health care reform act. Its all to much to fade, I dont miss it a bit. I'd rather move to China and do biz.
Whats driving biz to other countries is more than just cheap labor-It isnt that simple.
the funny thing is when you buy American, the parts probably came from China, there is no way around it. I have better things to do than care where something is made, I want good stuff and value for my $$$ thats it.
happy holidays
eric
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Diamond pool tables are made here in Indiana, and they are priced pretty close to Brunswicks, so that tells me that the $4700 GC5 could, or actually should, be a lot less right? If it is so much cheaper to make it in China, and they actually are passing the savings on to us consumers, well then someone needs to explain why when they close a factory and move the work to China, the price of the goods goes up, not down. The corporate greed is never-ending. Im not saying you in particular Fatboy, but by and large, greed is a hungry monster that will never get enough to eat.
Joe
Joe
Well not quite..Totota pays about $3 an hour less on average, but there is much fewer layoffs, so many workers like the trade-off for more work. At least if you are an auto worker you have your choice. Toyota was pretty good with the "bonus" as well, until they finally had a few bad years strung together for the first time ever. But the one thing is the US auto makers have been buying "foreign' for a long time, Chrysler was in bed with Mitsibushi for numerous years, GM use to own many foreign auto makers, and also was in bed with Toyota to supply cars and engines.
The car companies are so intermingled that you can't really separate them anymore. Plus, you can't talk about countries when discussing quality either. Japan may have Toyota and Honda, but they also have Mitsubishi and Subura, not very highly rated manufacturers. Germany has BMW Benz, Audi, VW and Porsche,, and they are not all equal as well. Buick is the highest rated American car company, and rated higher than a few Japanese and most of the German ones. So, it's getting quite confusing out there now !! It's quite confusing, but obviously I'm not a fan of China as I made clear previously. Mayber in a decade or two their standards will increase, who knows, but right now, not very impressed with anything from China.
Actually I agree with you and I am guilty of over simplifying my "dirt cheap" labor but there is the other things you have mentioned as well.
I'm not a buy American only guy as I have two imported vehicles as well as many other things. But there are so many better options for pool cues than a Cheap Chinese cue, and not only American companies, but in Italy, Germany, Spain, etc.... I"m with you, you should buy what is best for yourself. The original question is why someone thought Lucasi was junk.. which they are not junk but far behind the quality of many production and custom cues in the US and other countries. A much better value too if you must sell it in the future as well.
I buy value and quality, not where it is are made (or their parts). That being said, NIKE has never had a factory or made a shoe in its corporate life of nearly 40 years!!! They are a marketing and distribution company. They contract out ALL of their products, (mostly made in the Pacific rim-Asia). HOWEVER, the good specs. ARE the value and quality that I, as well as most of the U.S., like and buy. Yes, the "name" is more expensive than others, but that is due to heavy advertising and good R & D.
Sure they do! Unlike the States, in Germany they have to pay proper health care and pension programs for their employees, plus they can't exploit them beyond maximum 8 hours daily rate and can't lay their workers off at a whim.
On top of that, the factories in the States don't have to install very expensive eco-filters because the States don't care about global pollution as evidenced by their unwillingness to sign the UN's Kyoto Protocol conceived to reduce the global warming effects.
The above paragraph would present a prejudiced view most Europeans could spell out in a second about the US, much better substantiated than your view of China. I don't claim it's true, just wanted to show how prejudiced views can be turned around.
Now, I want to buy a cue. I am new to the game as I've been playing for a year with house cues. If I were to buy a custom cue from a solid cue maker, I would have to wait at least half a year and pay close to a thousand bucks for a nice stick (plain janes are ugly and sneakies are their uglier brothers). The other way to go would be to buy a used custom cue which was built for someone else, which is not really a custom made with my specifications. Production cue paid 200$ would certainly lose much of it's value, let's say I'd be able to sell it for 80$ after some time. However, it's not like each and every cue maker's cues preserve value if used. To the contrary, I've seen many "test hit" cues from reputable makers sell for 60-70% of the original price. That's 300$ loss we're dealing with.
Do the customs hit better? I honestly don't know. I've read they do, but I've also read that many people don't like ivory joints and many people think it's only shaft that matters and the new technology shafts are pro players' choice. I have never held a custom cue in my hands (no such things in Serbia where I reside atm), but I've played with Predator for one day and I felt a huge upgrade in performance over house cues I'd played with before.
I don't mind spending big bucks, so I'll probably order a custom cue after all. However, I can understand people who don't buy into hype as easily as I do and if their production cues play anything close to the Predator I played with, I fully understand their satisfaction.
RD3P
Banned
there is a bocote "merry widow" Falcon custom cues on ebay for $211 or make offer i bet you could get it for $180 made in canada they hit nice
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pool-Cue-Stick-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5ac2a47
there is a beautiful schon stl5 on ebay (i have the same cue only with different point inlays) great cues, from one of the best living cuemakers they all hit very simular so if you find a schon to try with the origional tip on it, you can order one or buy one without hitting with it first, and the one you get will hit very simular
....no reserve auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/Schon-STL-5-Cue...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a56140a5f
here s a Diveney custom made in west liberty IA very fancy ....i bet you could get it for $850 ...Pat makes great hitting cues for reasonable amount of money http://cgi.ebay.com/Pat-Diveney-Cus...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414b8af347
buy whatever makes you happy ....thats the right choice...
even thou me personally id never buy a chinese cue
China is the only place that can keep up on orders from lowes, walmart, gordmans, ect ect ect...thats why america is flooded with chinese goods. they are the only ones that can put out such high volume for such low price....and its all about selling out the american people for the highest attainable profit margins these days.
if i was a rich ceo trying to get richer id do the same thing
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Sad but true. :frown:
Either an American cue or a Chinese cue, if it's made on a CNC machine, will probably be machined on a CNC mill or lathe that was built in China.
You ought to wash it every once in a while :wink::grin::grin::grin:!!!
Maniac
I'm afraid to wash my nike shirts anymore.. after about 3 they look dead.
I was talking about pool cues and now we are talking sneakers for crying out loud. And since we are on the subject, my New Balance (made in USA) are much better than anything Nike has ever made. Plus, they actually make sizes for all types of people. Nike has one width size...narrow. Wow, Nike is really on top of things.
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Thanks for the very informative post. I was thinking of ordering a Steve Klein custom cue, but that Schon you quoted makes me think over my decision. The only thing I don't like about that cue is ivory. Ivory is a no-no for me, but that is my problem. I'm sure you helped other people thinking about buying a new cue as well.
I live in the Old World keeping true to its', just as old, prejudice. I know about the retirement and health care plans in the US auto-industry, but a lot of people in Europe don't and they think those workers live in a slave-like environment working their butts off for 12 hours a day not getting any security in return. Actually, you summed up perfectly what I wanted to say. Companies from Europe are moving their factories to the States because of cheaper production rates, just as other US' companies are moving their business to China. It's a globalization phenomenon and there's nothing we can do about it.That doesn't mean those products are of lesser quality per se. Many top shelf clothing designer brands moved their production to China, but their clothes are just as great as they used to be. The reason I don't like buying Chinese stuff is more related to the child labor and exploitation the workers in their factories are subjected to (also in factories in Indonesia, Vietnam and other Far East countries). However, even when they made their goods in Italy, their workers were subjected to similar treatment (read the book Gomorra or watch the movie, I think the translation is available in US). We can continue this argument in the non-pool related section if you wish.
I wouldn't worry about the quality in top factories, it's usually just fine. Let's not hijack this thread for political rants. My point is that cheaper cues should still be ok, even if they're made in China. Good thing is there's always a variety of choices as R3DP proved and a relatively cheap cues are available even for people who want their stuff to be made in the States.
P.S. I actually like Obama's plan for health care reform. True, I don't live in the US, but my father is a doctor who's traveled and co-operated with top US institutions and he thinks Europe's health care is much better suited for ordinary people's needs. Security on matters of health and extreme poverty sometimes is not a bad thing. Don't be scared with socialism claims, it's a term misinterpreted in the republican US media. It's got nothing to do with communism and it's not socialism, but social-democracy (big difference) we're talking about. Just for the record, I pay 40% tax in Germany for ~70k$ annual salary. The tax is progressive. As I already said, we can continue the discussion in an appropriate thread.
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Now you want to compare health care systems now? I think you hijacked this thread enough. The term socialism is not misinterpreted in the US, it is what it is. No even the democrates likes the Obama health plan,, but they were paid off very well for their votes, hundredes of millions to numerous states in credits and other tax incentives , and other pork barrel projects to vote Obama's way. Must be a great bill that you have to bribe your own party to get what you want otherwise they would never have voted for it.
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After reading this thread i got out my Chinese made Lucasi and told it "Don't worry i still like you." The Cocobolo brightened a bit so i know it heard me.