Luther "Wimpy" Lassiter - best ever 9-ball???

[alstl]

Huckster can perhaps back this up...Don Willis had a standing offer to play ANYONE for $25K, if they wanted to come to Canton, OH. This offer went unchallenged for years and years. Nobody wanted to play Don...that pretty much says it all. In addition...Willis could play any billiards game expertly, including snooker and 3-C...let alone other sports like dice, cards, ping pong, horseshoes, and several others. Jack White was also fortunate enough to have gone on the road with Willis and Wimpy, at the same time.

One other important fact...during the Johnston City days, a reporter went to the tournament to ask all the players who was the "best". EVERY ONE (including Wimpy) pointed to the guy in the sportcoat, with the porkpie hat, sitting against the wall. When the reporter went over to talk to Don, after polling the players (Don didn't play in the tournaments...he just went to gamble), and asked him, point-blank why all the players said he was the best, Don asked to see the list of players that the reporter had talked to. After perusing it, he said, pointing at each name, "I beat him, I beat him, I beat him"...over and over again.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

There is a little information about Willis here.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2U...X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA235,M1

I read somewhere that one hustle they pulled consisted of Wimpy rolling into town and showing everybody his A game for a couple days. Then the unknown Willis would show up, Willis and Wimpy would get a game, all the side money would naturally be on Wimpy with Willis covering all side bets, and you can guess the rest. I guess it's a version of the two strangers hustle. The only way that works is if Lassiter's partner plays well enough to convince the crowd that he beat Lassiter.

 

[charley2]

Great write up. You've done your research.

 

[charley2]

Great write up. You've done your research.

3 things make a GREAT player.
1. Tournaments won
2. Gambling prowess
3. Longevity.

In my opinion, Luther Lassiter was the greatest 9 baller to ever play. Earl was the the best tournament 9 baller, but Luther beats him in gambling ability as well as longevity.

As for background on Luther Lassiter, he was born on Nov 5, 1918 and died at age 69 on Oct 25, 1988. He was a great player by the time he was in his 20s, but, in the 1940's and 1950's, there were hardly any major 9 ball tournaments being held. By the time the Johnson City tournaments came into being starting in 1961, Lassiter was already a legendary road player. Starting in 1962 (the 1st Johnson City 9 ball tournament) Lassiter dominated the field and won the first of his 6 World 9 ball championships. These Johnson City and Stardust tournaments were the defacto World Championships and they had fields that included Harold Worst, Ed Kelly, Irving Crane, Joe Balsis, Ronnie Allen, Danny Jones, Eddie Taylor, Larry Johnson, Jim Marino, Buddy Hall and many other great players. Lassiter won titles in 1962, 1963, 1964, 1967, 1969 and 1971. Keep in mind that at this time, he was 44 in 1962 and 53 in 1971....His peak as a player was argueably past, yet he still beat very, very talented players.

Now, not only was he a great TOURNAMENT player, he was also one of the greatest MONEY players that ever lived. His favorite game was "money pool", any game he could bet on. Believe me when I tell you this, his game went UP several notches for the cash. Some players play better in tournaments than they do when they gamble, and others, visa-versa. Lassiter was a better money player than a tournament player.
So, put those two facts together, add in his longevity at the top (30+ years) and I can make a very strong case for him. This of course does not take into consideration his 4 outright World 14.1 Championships, PLUS 5 14.1 Championships at Johnson City, 5 World All-Around Championships and 1 World 1 Pocket Championship and you have a very gifted player indeed.

As for Strickland, I call him the greatest tournament 9 baller since Lassiter and he may in fact be Lassiter's equal at TOURNAMENT 9 ball. His 6 World Championships and 5 U.S. Open 9 Ball Championships is a record that I believe we will not see broken, ever. Look how hard it is for anyone to repeat or win those majors more than once. But Strickland, even though early in his career he did gamble at pool, at GAMBLING he was no match for Lassiter. So, you have two very special tournament players and one of them (Lassiter) also exceled at gambling 9 ball, so the edge, I believe, has to go to Lassiter.

As for Efren Reyes, he also has a special title. The greatest all around player to have ever played pocket billiards. He was a great 9 baller, but not "the GREATEST" and here is what I base that opinion on. In the two major championships at 9 Ball, Efren has 1 World 9 Ball Championship in 1999 and 1 U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship in 1994. Sigel has 5 WC and 3 US Open's, Varner has 3 WC and back-to-back US Open titles. Archer, Hall, Souquet and Allen Hopkins have combined major 9 ball titles greater than Reyes' 2. BUT, Reyes also has 6 World 8 Ball Championships, he is the greatest Rotation player ever, in my opinion the greatest 1 pocket player ever and he is super at 14.1. Overall, Reyes is better than Lassiter and Strickland, but not at 9 ball.

Consider this....Lassiter won 6 World 9 Ball Championships from the age of 44 till he was 53. He would have won how many more had there been 9 ball tournaments in the 2 previous decades. But there weren't any.
So, if he won 6 World Chamionships 20 years after his prime, what would he have been like from the 1940's to 1960's?

Compare that to Reyes, who has one (1) World 9 Ball Championship, in an era where for 10 plus years, there were 2 "World 9 Ball Championships" available every year! And Reyes has a total of 1. Lassiter, who didn't have tournaments to compete in until he was 44, still won 6 of them.

These are just MY opinions and many other fans and historians who love and study the game as much as I do may have differing opinions. But, once I collected all the info that I had on these great players, I feel very confident in my selections of who was better at what.

Great write up. You've done your research.

 

[2rgrbn]

Mosconi was probably the greatest Straight Pool player who ever lived, including Greenleaf. But he was strictly a tournament player and only a 14.1 player at that. Kind of a one trick pony, although I heard his Three Cushion game was very strong also.

Now if they were gambling at Straight Pool, Lassiter might just be the favorite.
Willie was known to fade for the cash, that's why he stuck to tournaments. Luther did play in some of the tournaments that Mosconi won in the 50's. Even he would say Willie was the best.

How about Willie Hoppe, all these guys are before my time but I have often heard Greenleaf and Hoppe Referred to as the best ever at straight pool.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

How about Willie Hoppe, all these guys are before my time but I have often heard Greenleaf and Hoppe Referred to as the best ever at straight pool.

Willie Hoppe was a multi-time World 3C and 18.1,18.2 and the 71.2 Balkline Champion.
Willie Mosconi was perhaps the greatest 14.1 player ever, although Ralph Greenleaf certainly has some incredible credentials that just about match Mosconi's.
One GREAT 14.1 champion almost always overlooked is Frank Taberski.

 

[2rgrbn]

Willie Hoppe was a multi-time World 3C and 18.1,18.2 and the 71.2 Balkline Champion.
Willie Mosconi was perhaps the greatest 14.1 player ever, although Ralph Greenleaf certainly has some incredible credentials that just about match Mosconi's.
One GREAT 14.1 champion almost always overlooked is Frank Taberski.

I like your signature I was a member of 2nd Ranger Bat. My avatar is 2nd Bats DUI, how about Ray Martin(14.1) or Dan Dileberto(1 Pocket). Back to the original question on 9 ball personally I have never seen anyone with the ability to get in line so well by shot #3 then Buddy Hall. You could put him in the parking lot for shot #1 and by the time he was shooting the 3 ball he was dead in line for middle ball or stop shots all the way out.

 

[jay helfert]

I like your signature I was a member of 2nd Ranger Bat. My avatar is 2nd Bats DUI, how about Ray Martin(14.1) or Dan Dileberto(1 Pocket). Back to the original question on 9 ball personally I have never seen anyone with the ability to get in line so well by shot #3 then Buddy Hall. You could put him in the parking lot for shot #1 and by the time he was shooting the 3 ball he was dead in line for middle ball or stop shots all the way out.

Ray Martin and Danny Diliberto (both living) were both great 14.1 champions. Martin won two World Championships, and Danny won his share of tournaments also. Danny is famous for winning major tournaments in Straight Pool, 9-Ball, One Pocket and Eight Ball. Not too many players have achieved this feat.

 

[Pushout]

How about Willie Hoppe, all these guys are before my time but I have often heard Greenleaf and Hoppe Referred to as the best ever at straight pool.

It's been my understanding that Hoppe looked down on pool. I think a common thought during Hoppe's hayday was: "Bums play Pool, gentlemen play Billiards." He may have dabbled in pool once in a while, but Billiards was always Hoppe's game of choice.

 

[freddy the beard]

Barely run 2 racks

I like your signature I was a member of 2nd Ranger Bat. My avatar is 2nd Bats DUI, how about Ray Martin(14.1) or Dan Dileberto(1 Pocket). Back to the original question on 9 ball personally I have never seen anyone with the ability to get in line so well by shot #3 then Buddy Hall. You could put him in the parking lot for shot #1 and by the time he was shooting the 3 ball he was dead in line for middle ball or stop shots all the way out.

Ranger, Willie Hoppe could barely run 2 racks playing 14.1. 3 Cush. champ, Welker Cochran played pretty good pool. If you like perfect position playing 9 ball, you shoulda seen Portland Don Watson.

the Beard
PS :thumbup: Love Rangers, ReCons and Special Ops. BTW did you ever meet our (Chicago) Mayors Daley's son? He went Airborne Ranger. (Didn't 2nd Ranger Btn. storm Point Du Hoc on D-Day?)

 

[2rgrbn]

Ranger, Willie Hoppe could barely run 2 racks playing 14.1. 3 Cush. champ, Welker Cochran played pretty good pool. If you like perfect position playing 9 ball, you shoulda seen Portland Don Watson.

the Beard
PS :thumbup: Love Rangers, ReCons and Special Ops. BTW did you ever meet our (Chicago) Mayors Daley's son? He went Airborne Ranger. (Didn't 2nd Ranger Btn. storm Point Du Hoc on D-Day?)

Your game is one to be respected as as well I hear, Yes, 2nd Battalion Rangers climbed Point Du Hoc, the organization was different then 2/75 Rgr Bat as it exist today was actually not formed until 1974. But yes Point Du Hoc was a Ranger mission. I was in from 89-94 there was a Captain Daley that comes to mind but I can't actually place him.

 

[jay helfert]

Ranger, Willie Hoppe could barely run 2 racks playing 14.1. 3 Cush. champ, Welker Cochran played pretty good pool. If you like perfect position playing 9 ball, you shoulda seen Portland Don Watson.

the Beard
PS :thumbup: Love Rangers, ReCons and Special Ops. BTW did you ever meet our (Chicago) Mayors Daley's son? He went Airborne Ranger. (Didn't 2nd Ranger Btn. storm Point Du Hoc on D-Day?)

Thanks for mentioning a man who gets so little recognition. Don Watson played the softest, lightest game of pool I ever saw. He never seemed to hit the balls hard, and his cue ball always floated slowly into place. He was Efren, before there was an Efren. Buddy learned a lot from watching Watson play, and even he will say so.

And Don was about the most low key pool hustler of all time. He would slide into a poolroom with that ever present newspaper stuffed in his back pocket, find a seat off to the side somewhere, and begin to peruse the days races. No one would ever guess he was a great player. He was like a spider laying in wait to trap his next victim. Finally a player would come in and begin to taunt someone about playing. After a while Don would pipe up from the sidelines, "I'll play you some". That meant DOOM for whoever took the playing field against him!

All these years and I still have to stretch my mind to remember anyone who ever beat Don Watson. Help me Fred. I know he respected Lassiter's game, as did everyone else. But most of the young guns of that era just left him alone.

 

[2rgrbn]

Since we are discussing great players and you guys seem to know a few how good is Billy Weir.

 

[grindz]

Jay....

have you been alive ...... forever??? :smile:

J/K.........I can hear the stands starting to rumble......book, Book, BOok,
BOOk, BOOK, BOOK, BOOK........ :smile:

td

 

[androd]

Ranger, Willie Hoppe could barely run 2 racks playing 14.1. 3 Cush. champ, Welker Cochran played pretty good pool. If you like perfect position playing 9 ball, you shoulda seen Portland Don Watson.

the Beard
PS :thumbup: Love Rangers, ReCons and Special Ops. BTW did you ever meet our (Chicago) Mayors Daley's son? He went Airborne Ranger. (Didn't 2nd Ranger Btn. storm Point Du Hoc on D-Day?)

at one time Don Watson was considered the best 9 ball player.( before wimpy) a good friend and a good guy. almost all position was one rail. up and down the table or over and back. ( when possible)
rodney.

 

[dabarbr]

Thanks for mentioning a man who gets so little recognition. Don Watson played the softest, lightest game of pool I ever saw. He never seemed to hit the balls hard, and his cue ball always floated slowly into place. He was Efren, before there was an Efren. Buddy learned a lot from watching Watson play, and even he will say so.

And Don was about the most low key pool hustler of all time. He would slide into a poolroom with that ever present newspaper stuffed in his back pocket, find a seat off to the side somewhere, and begin to peruse the days races. No one would ever guess he was a great player. He was like a spider laying in wait to trap his next victim. Finally a player would come in and begin to taunt someone about playing. After a while Don would pipe up from the sidelines, "I'll play you some". That meant DOOM for whoever took the playing field against him!

All these years and I still have to stretch my mind to remember anyone who ever beat Don Watson. Help me Fred. I know he respected Lassiter's game, as did everyone else. But most of the young guns of that era just left him alone.

Portland Don was the only player that I lost to convincingly and I went back to play him again to see if what I saw was for real. It was. This guy never got out of line. He was always on the right side of the the ball. It's hard to imagine Lassiter being much better. He's probably the person that made the most impression on me and I wanted to pattern my game to be like his.

 

[cueman]

Thanks for mentioning a man who gets so little recognition. Don Watson played the softest, lightest game of pool I ever saw. He never seemed to hit the balls hard, and his cue ball always floated slowly into place. He was Efren, before there was an Efren. Buddy learned a lot from watching Watson play, and even he will say so.

And Don was about the most low key pool hustler of all time. He would slide into a poolroom with that ever present newspaper stuffed in his back pocket, find a seat off to the side somewhere, and begin to peruse the days races. No one would ever guess he was a great player. He was like a spider laying in wait to trap his next victim. Finally a player would come in and begin to taunt someone about playing. After a while Don would pipe up from the sidelines, "I'll play you some". That meant DOOM for whoever took the playing field against him!

All these years and I still have to stretch my mind to remember anyone who ever beat Don Watson. Help me Fred. I know he respected Lassiter's game, as did everyone else. But most of the young guns of that era just left him alone.

I knew Don as he came to the Wagon Wheel events in Atlanta up until his death. I heard one player after another say that he was the best position player of all time. Wade Crane says Portland Don taught him to play close up shape. He still had to play in the pro side of the tournaments and could still hold his own at his old age although he never got real far in the brackets.

 

[freddy the beard]

Part of my inspiration

All these years and I still have to stretch my mind to remember anyone who ever beat Don Watson. Help me Fred. I know he respected Lassiter's game, as did everyone else. But most of the young guns of that era just left him alone.[/QUOTE]

Don set the bar for me for determination when he was in Johnston City playing in a ring 9 ball game. The best players were playing ring 9 ball 5 or six handed. Don had not even been able to come to the table in 9 games! When he finally got a shot it was on the one ball, and he was snookered 9 feet away. He would have to masse' cut it in to make it. Brutal as that was, the two ball was on the opposite end of the table and it was behind a ball, so even if he masse'd and made the one he would still be snookered on the two. I mentally solved the dilemma immediately -- just kick slam at the one out of frustration, and go sit back down and wait for another shot. Instead, Don calmly took aim, elevated his cue and curved the qball into the one ball and pocketed it. Now snookered on the two ball he repeated the process and masse'd the qball 9 feet at the two. Naturally, he made the two, still not done yet, he must run out, which he did. He even got a round of applause from the players. Outside of the ring games I dont recall anybody choosing Don to play 9 ball.

the Beard

 

[2rgrbn]

This is an educational thread, it seems to focus on the generation before mine how about some comparisons to the next generation of players for reference, as mentioned before Buddy Halls ability to get in line, Dave Matlocks shot making skills, Danny Medina's Wardrobe that is not nice of me to say but the last beating I took from him he was wearing a crushed velvet jump suit, sorry any how not to high jack the thread but how about the 90's era players. Even the lesser known players like Rod Curry, Dan Louie, Warren Costanza, Billy Weir, Gene Ahola and so on

 

[PoolBum]

have you been alive ...... forever??? :smile:

J/K.........I can hear the stands starting to rumble......book, Book, BOok,
BOOk, BOOK, BOOK, BOOK........ :smile:

td

Haven't you heard Jay's story about the day he hustled Mark Twain a game of banks?

 

[jay helfert]

This is an educational thread, it seems to focus on the generation before mine how about some comparisons to the next generation of players for reference, as mentioned before Buddy Halls ability to get in line, Dave Matlocks shot making skills, Danny Medina's Wardrobe that is not nice of me to say but the last beating I took from him he was wearing a crushed velvet jump suit, sorry any how not to high jack the thread but how about the 90's era players. Even the lesser known players like Rod Curry, Dan Louie, Warren Costanza, Billy Weir, Gene Ahola and so on

The two that stand out here are Dan Louie, who became a great player, dominating the Northwest for two decades. And Warren "The Monk" Costanza, one of the best "unknown" One Pocket players. Not many players could spot him anything. In fact, he played the world even, and beat almost all comers.