Main Forum = CJ Wiley Forum now?

How can anyone even see the TOI threads through all the following?

BasementDweller said:
You are funny JB. :)

Call me crazy but I do think there has to be well divided sub-forums. Otherwise, this place turns into what RSB was back when it went off the rails. My biggest complaint about AZ is a lot of interesting stuff quickly gets lost in the shuffle. I suppose you could say that if something is good it should manage to stay on the first page, or maybe I just have weird tastes. I don't know.

Subscribing to threads doesn't really work all that well, since once a thread is relegated to the 2nd or 3rd page, chances are nobody is going to post in it anymore.

I actually think the "Ask The Instructor" and the "Aiming" forums are more my flavor. At least as far as how ideas are expressed and how the back and forth communication goes.

I was skeptical about the "Aiming" Forum at first, but I think it has worked out pretty well. I agree that you don't want to make a new sub-forum for every little thing, but broadening the scope of the "Aiming" forum to include all System stuff I think would be a good idea. Then I could come up with something else to complain about.
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How can you divide up all these topics on the main forum? I never noticed there was such a wide variety until I read this JB post making fun of them all. It's like the "Baskin Robins" of pool sections, from vanilla all the way to "rocky road".

How can anyone even see the TOI threads through all the following? ......



Pool and Religion - hmm, possibly NPR but perhaps a new subforum called BPR should be created for this Barely Pool Related

Looking for Serious Sponsor - perhaps Wanted/For Sale section?

Favorite Sized Table to Play On? - Equipment sub form?

St. Patrick's Day Pool Story - Pool Stories sub forum?

Brunswick Centennial Ready For action - Equipment sub form, possibly marketing sub forum, maybe WFS, Gallery? Not sure.

Product Ideas - clearly marketing subforum

New 8 Ball Variants: Deathmatch and Last Stand: New Games Forum absolutely.

And Now, the weekly Ebay BS Cue Story - marketing sub forum.

My "new" Anniversary is here - Pool Table Gallery sub forum

Funny pic thread: NPR all the way. But it has 11 MILLION views.

Pool Movies - Media sub forum

Does SVB speak Filipino? - Ask the Pros sub forum? Talk about pros sub forum?

What are RAM shots? - THIS is the content that is suitable for the main forum when professionals are not welcome there.

Should I make a pool guide for bar players? - SEE ABOVE

One-Word Thread- huh? Must be a sub forum for that.

Bonus Ball - new games sub forum

Best Camera for Recording Pool - Streaming Forum

What's the weakest part of your game - "I can't play" sub forum.

BTG Table Diagramming Tool - put this useless piece of crap in the Aiming Forum only. ;-)

Day Jobs of the Pros - Talk about Pros sub forum.

New Pool hall in Griffith Indiana - obviously marketing sub forum.

Strong Arm John - Talk about Pros/Road Players sub forum."
 
CreeDo said:
Agree. I'm sad for example that there's not much 14.1 talk in here even if it's less popular these days. I really don't want to fish around a separate 14.1 forum, it's not like all the 14.1 posts would drown us in information and take up half the first page of the main forum.

Be reasonable. You think someone wakes up in the morning and says "boy, I sure hope I can usurp someone's freedoms today.
I envy them so much that I wish I could just shut them up forever!"

It has nothing to do with muzzling anyone. People just get sick of the endless squabbling.
Aiming systems are such a touchy topic that they lead to massive threads,
then spinoff threads, then spinoffs of the spinoffs, and eventually bans.

You can argue "just don't read them then", but would you like to live in a house where
your friends or family are arguing nonstop, and you have to close the door and put on
some headphones to drown it out? And someone always gets kicked out afterwards?

Additionally, aiming systems seem to go hand in hand with people trying to sell you
something. Can I live with or ignore unsolicited ads? Yes. Do I want to? Not really.

The only thing worse than mommy and daddy shouting at each other is hearing it mixed with Billy Mays shouting
"AND I'll THROW IN ANOTHER CTE ABSOLUTELY FREE TO THE FIRST TWENTY CALLERS!!!"
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I'll try to be reasonable. That sounds fair enough.

No, I don't think anyone wakes up one morning and says "boy, I sure hope I can usurp someone's freedoms today.
I envy them so much that I wish I could just shut them up forever!" However, MOST of the whining about other people's posts/threads starts off just like that, imo and the end result is just about that as well.

Is it fair for you to bash CTE with your quote above in blue when there has been very little of that going on? (Why wouldn't you use a more current example of that behavior? Maybe it was just an oversight on your part and you weren't thinking. You could have given a more current example of that behavior in the main forum instead of accidentally rubbing old wounds. ) No wounds here, btw. I'm all good with your posts and CTE.

Hearing someone else's wails is entirely different from reading someone else's wails. If you are in the vicinity, you cannot help but hear their wails. If you are in the Main Forum, you can simply decide to NOT read their posts and threads. It's far easier than sticking foreign substances into your ears to quell the vitriolic badgering or any constant sales caterwauling.

As to your remark about Billy Mays shouting, I never enjoyed his loud wailing, soliloquy but if someone were doing that on a regular basis in the Main Forum (writing wise) you could easily put them on Ignore. It would be the sales person's loss, not the loss of the person wanting to stick pointed, pencils in their own ears to silence the deafening noise.

The "endless squabbling" STILL continues TODAY in all of the forums. There is unfortunately, a need for some people to control what others have to think, do and say. It is far easier to sit around and point fingers at others for what they do to irritate you than it is to make positive contributions to the forums. The really, sad part is that those who make positive contributions to the forums are often underappreciated and unfairly hounded by a few for exactly the reasons that you mentioned early on in your post.

For the most part, the ad hominem attacks have ended, specifically because of the muzzling that has been instituted by the moderators. When bad behavior becomes a nuisance the moderators and management have stepped in to control it and done so quite well.

I don't see the need of posters whining day in day out about posts that they don't like or agree with but that's just me.

I think it's the moderators job and the management's job to decide what is too much to bear, not the guests of this forum.
 
I think a Tip putter oner sub forum might be ok.

And a shaft warp taker outter forum would work too.

Both of these come up quite frequently and a lot of guys have their own tips on tips to add.

It could be a basic cue maintenance forum.

Funny but I would bet a 1000 that you would never see a fight or disagreement when people are helping others with cue repair or maintenance.
 
JoeyA said:
Is it fair for you to bash CTE with your quote above in blue when there has been very little of that going on? (Why wouldn't you use a more current example of that behavior?)
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I actually picked that because basically it's a dead topic... I figured, rather than pile on TOI and add to an ongoing conflict, I'd mention something unrelated that hopefully makes the point (and I figured it's been out of circulation long enough that there's no danger of the comment flaring up into a new debate).

I actually don't mind TOI, and have been playing around with it. CJ's "presentation" certainly gives Hal Houle's the 6-out.

Hearing someone else's wails is entirely different from reading someone else's wails. If you are in the vicinity, you cannot help but hear their wails. If you are in the Main Forum, you can simply decide to NOT read their posts and threads.
Click to expand...

Others have made this point before me, but: at times it can creep into unrelated threads... it's disheartening when there's an interesting thread going on, someone brings up [3-letter-acronym], and ... sigh... here we go again. The topic is hopelessly derailed. To be fair sometimes not CJ that brings it up.

Example: Someone asked if there are any pros using lots of center ball/vertical axis shooting, because they want more of that in their game. So they asked who they should watch and emulate. CJ jumps in saying very nearly 0%. So far so good, I'm interested in hearing what a high level player like CJ has to say on the subject. But then there's the inevitable TOI plug and some stuff about pinning etc. Suddenly there's JB and neil and others squabbling. It all goes downhill from there.

I think it's the moderators job and the management's job to decide what is too much to bear, not the guests of this forum.
Click to expand...

I think good management listens to the guests and works to accommodate them.
So far it's ok.
 
This is a great example of people just not viewing things the same way.
There are posters that I agree with most of the time and I just don't see it the same way. I enjoy the hell out of CJ. Learned some stuff I didn't know and heard about some great action that I would have never known about.
I hate that everyone don't enjoy CJ as much as I do but I'm not going to try to make them see it my way either. I hope CJ stays around and robs everybody in the top 20. I just hate we're not all on the same page.
I guess if everyone seen everything the same way it would be a boring world
 
CreeDo said:
I actually picked that because basically it's a dead topic... I figured, rather than pile on TOI and add to an ongoing conflict, I'd mention something unrelated that hopefully makes the point (and I figured it's been out of circulation long enough that there's no danger of the comment flaring up into a new debate).

I actually don't mind TOI, and have been playing around with it. CJ's "presentation" certainly gives Hal Houle's the 6-out.



Others have made this point before me, but: at times it can creep into unrelated threads... it's disheartening when there's an interesting thread going on, someone brings up [3-letter-acronym], and ... sigh... here we go again. The topic is hopelessly derailed. To be fair sometimes not CJ that brings it up.

Example: Someone asked if there are any pros using lots of center ball/vertical axis shooting, because they want more of that in their game. So they asked who they should watch and emulate. CJ jumps in saying very nearly 0%. So far so good, I'm interested in hearing what a high level player like CJ has to say on the subject. But then there's the inevitable TOI plug and some stuff about pinning etc. Suddenly there's JB and neil and others squabbling. It all goes downhill from there.



I think good management listens to the guests and works to accommodate them.
So far it's ok.
Click to expand...

CJ outlined it pretty well. At the end of the day it's a conversation. While people take far more license to be rude and crappy on a forum than they do in personal conversation it's still part of forum life we have to deal with. Diffferent spaces have different rules. A rock concert has different rules and expectations than a church for example.

I wish that some guy hadn't chosen to pick on my post trying to help the OP to attack me, but that's his own issue and obviously he felt disturbed. I am slowly coming to the realization that EVERYONE has a deeply personal perspective on everything they read. What sets one person off means absolutely nothing to the guy beside him. I used to think that this meant that some people were just more touchy but it's deeper than that I think.

I think that we are all very very very unique mixtures of nurture and nature and what bothers us in on moment could mean nothing in the next and that the switch flips thousands of times a day and if you happen to be in "bothered" mode at the right moment you react accordingly.

So, we have to train ourselves to react in different ways. If we can figure out shots on the pool table then we should be able to figure out how to let things slide that ulitmately don't mean anything and only cause conflict when we decide, whether kneejerk or deliberately, to respond to with negativity.
 
Also FWIW you can put 14.1 conversation in the main forum. No one is stopping you. The 14.1 forum was not created as a reaction to intense bickering in the main forum as the Aiming Section was. It was created for the people who want to talk 14.1 in their own space. You don't have to conform to that and I am sure if you started a thread they would be happy to put in their opinions and no one would go off about how it's in the wrong section.

Well maybe a few nits might but that's the nature of a nit to be nitty :-)
 
CJ Wiley said:
You're right, it's probably "just a fad," I mean Wade Crane told me Luther Lassiter used the same type of system, just never told anyone about it, so that makes it......hmmm, 50-60 years old? Yeah, it's definately a "fad" and shouldn't be around more than a few more decades before it fizzles out.

Wait a minute, it's now in the "mainstream" pool world, so you don't have to be a "road player" anymore to get this information???

uht oh....that means that the old way of playing "hit one ball into another ball and make it hit a contact point and use different spins, speeds, ghost balls and calculate it every time you shoot" system is going out of style?

That would certainly be a shame, it's so much better to keep the whole world down so they are playing a game that's RIDICULOUSLY TOUGH as opposed to a way that makes it very simple and very easy. Yes indeed. ;)

I can see why you would "hold it against me" for doing everyone such an "injustice".....God Forbid pool get popular again so it's enjoyable for everyone that plays it and professionals can make a decent living playing back on TV again....that would be "tragic" now wouldn't it. ;)

'The Inside Game is the Teacher'

lassiter.png
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Some one got their pool panties in a twist lol
 
houmatroy said:
You havn't seen that insurance commercial ? You can't put nothing on the internet that aint true !!! Bonjour lol
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Hello HoumaTroy,
I missed you being on the forum. Happy New Year to you and your family. Hope everything is going well for you.
That is a not for me, commercial.
I am going to have to stop going to the pool hall. I will tell you why later. Take care, I care.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
He knows "words mean different things to a variety of people," and is willing to.....

peteypooldude said:
This is a great example of people just not viewing things the same way.
There are posters that I agree with most of the time and I just don't see it the same way. I enjoy the hell out of CJ. Learned some stuff I didn't know and heard about some great action that I would have never known about.
I hate that everyone don't enjoy CJ as much as I do but I'm not going to try to make them see it my way either. I hope CJ stays around and robs everybody in the top 20. I just hate we're not all on the same page.
I guess if everyone seen everything the same way it would be a boring world
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Yes, I met with Randy G. today for lunch. We talked about a variety of pool related topics and really saved the TOI discussion for last. I enjoy getting Randy's "spin" on things because he went through the same era as I did in Dallas and we were partners in a Pool Room venture ( I was partners with Randy, John McChesney and 4 other people) and we did the UJ Pucket Texas Hall of Fame induction ( still have the UJ Pucket painting from his induction). We also had Willie Mosconi and Jimmy Caras at 'CHAMPS BIlliards' so there's a lot of history between us.

Also, Randy's VERY knowledgeable about pool and has been one of the leading instructors in the country for over 20 years. He was unclear on a couple of the TOI fundamental things, however he understands how to learn at a very high level. He ask most of the pertinent questions and wanted to see me hit a number of different type shots.

Then, he wanted to hit specific shots himself and I suggested a couple things that he incorporated right away. Presto, the light went on and I believe he walked away much clearer. The TOI is different than what he had first envisioned, however, he expected this and didn't let it get in the way of learning what he needed.

This ability Randy has to process new information quickly and efficiently is something we can all learn from. First, he came in with an open mind, and second he was willing to communicate on a variety of levels without jumping to any conclusions. He knows "words mean different things to a variety of people," and is willing to work within these parameters.

I don't normally use the term "back hand english" and I also use "deflection" instead of squirt or veer. I use words that mean the same thing, and he figured that out right away and it saved any unnecessary confusion.

Moral of the story and what was reinforced?

Your communication is only as good as how others perceive it, however, if if there's no open mind and a willingness to learn new things, there will always be a breakdown in learning.

I now understand this Forum from a new perspective, and I'm thankful to those of you that seek to improve and have an open mind to new ways of performing. "where there's a will, there's a way" - The Game is the Teacher'
 
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CJ Wiley said:
Yes, I met with Randy G. today for lunch. We talked about a variety of pool related topics and really saved the TOI discussion for last. I enjoy getting Randy's "spin" on things because he went through the same era as I did in Dallas and we were partners in a Pool Room venture ( I was partners with Randy, John McChesney and 4 other people) and we did the UJ Pucket Texas Hall of Fame induction ( still have the UJ Pucket painting from his induction). We also had Willie Mosconi and Jimmy Caras at 'CHAMPS BIlliards' so there's a lot of history between us.

Also, Randy's VERY knowledgeable about pool and has been one of the leading instructors in the country for over 20 years. He was unclear on a couple of the TOI fundamental things, however he understands how to learn at a very high level. He ask most of the pertinent questions and wanted to see me hit a number of different type shots.

Then, he wanted to hit specific shots himself and I suggested a couple things that he incorporated right away. Presto, the light went on and I believe he walked away much clearer. The TOI is different that what he had first envisioned, however, he expected this and didn't let it get in the way of learning what he needed.

This ability Randy has to process new information quickly and efficiently is something we can all learn from. First, he came in with an open mind, and second he was willing to communicate on a variety of levels without jumping to any conclusions. He knows "words mean different things to a variety of people," and is willing to work within these parameters.

I don't normally use the term "back hand english" and I also use "deflection" instead of squirt or veer. I use words that mean the same thing, and he figured that out right away and it saved any unnecessary confusion.

Moral of the story and what was reinforced?

Your communication is only as good as how others perceive it, however, if if there's no open mind and a willingness to learn new things, there will always be a breakdown in learning.

I now understand this Forum from a new perspective, and I'm thankful to those of you that seek to improve and have an open mind to new ways of performing. "where there's a will, there's a way" - The Game is the Teacher'
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What he just said!!! Priceless!
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
Great post CJ!

Great learning from both CJ and Randy, it´s not all about Pool, the laws is the same for everything in life You need to be openminded and just do it.
Imo.

The road to learn TOI is to enjoy the road, with out the road you won´t get it, you open up and new things take place imo.

For me to understand CJ (in this case) I of course read and hear his words but mainly I relax and "feel" the energy sort of speak. We all have a different way of "singing" and there is a lot of ways to communicate imo. We understand people that are mute, children that hasen´t the ability to speak yet, dogs etc. My dog can´t speak Swedish but I assure you that we can "speak" and the more we train together the better we can play - same thing but different task.

The feel of TOI is coming to me more and more and I can feel that it´s a "magic bullet", has CJ perfected it - no, there is always a next step, is he a Master of it - yes with a very high degree. Is I a Master of it - of course, I like everyone else is the Master of our selves, don´t have the same degree though:rolleyes:.

Now I´m on a step were I got my PSR with it, I go down on every shot thinking TOI, I have started to use it when banking, kicking, caroms etc, I play with it all the time. I´m more into finetuning it sort of speak.

I don´t do it right all the time because I tend to shift between my methods for a reason sometimes and when I "listen" to myself "why"???? I find it, and even if I miss for awhile when I´m thinking of the new thing (very old things btw - we know if we want to see it) I´m feeling happy because I´m still taking the responsibility of My actions, - minute adjustments, - great words and they apply not only at the table but about the rest also imo.

Wow I can ramble...., :rolleyes:

Regards

Chrippa

Ps want to add something, to find it you need to play it your way, have the words of CJ back in your head but play with your eyes/feel. What happens for me (and I think for you also) is that when I got something I all of a sudden understand what CJ said. If you try to be someone else it will be a long and hard road to master anything, if you do it your way it´s a lot easier imo. To learn about your game, about yourself a way that works very good imo is to bury the "ax" because if you fight yourself you will never win, if you relax and enjoy the ride you make it much easier. Nothing is new under the sun but we can change the viewing of it.
 
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This is how things get resolved in the real world. High level instructor meets high level pro and they work it out.
 
condense your game into just one or two key thoughts and anchor them into your "self

Regards

Chrippa

Ps want to add something, to find it you need to play it your way, have the words of CJ back in your head but play with your eyes/feel. What happens for me (and I think for you also) is that when I got something I all of a sudden understand what CJ said. If you try to be someone else it will be a long and hard road to master anything, if you do it your way it´s a lot easier imo. To learn about your game, about yourself a way that works very good imo is to bury the "ax" because if you fight yourself you will never win, if you relax and enjoy the ride you make it much easier. Nothing is new under the sun but we can change the viewing of it.
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I think of pool as, not a sport or game, but an "art form," a way that we {that really like the game} can express ourselves.

At first we struggle to play the Game, and build a foundation that is stable, then after "trial and error," there comes a transition point. The Game starts to reflect other things in our lives, physically, mentally, emotionally, and even spiritually. You can tell a lot about a person by how they play pool, if they're patient, flexible, strategic, aggressive, defensive, mechanical, etc.

Being aware of these "layers of learning" is important, especially if we can synchronize our learning process. Eliminating unneeded choices is essential because it allows us to focus on what's useful and important, without wasting "mental horsepower".

However we choose to live our lives or play our games, it's vital to figure out a way to eliminate unwanted/unneeded variables because they can dilute our focus. We all have the same amount of focus, the difference is how we choose to direct and utilize it.

The legendary golfer, Jack Nicklaus, said he rarely had more than one "swing thought" during a round of golf. This way he could completely focus on his game without confusing himself with unneeded choices about how to swing the golf club.

I suggest you do the same, try to condense your game into just one or two key thoughts and anchor them into your "self talk". 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
I think of pool as, not a sport or game, but an "art form," a way that we {that really like the game} can express ourselves.

At first we struggle to play the Game, and build a foundation that is stable, then after "trial and error," there comes a transition point. The Game starts to reflect other things in our lives, physically, mentally, emotionally, and even spiritually. You can tell a lot about a person by how they play pool, if they're patient, flexible, strategic, aggressive, defensive, mechanical, etc.

Being aware of these "layers of learning" is important, especially if we can synchronize our learning process. Eliminating unneeded choices is essential because it allows us to focus on what's useful and important, without wasting "mental horsepower".

However we choose to live our lives or play our games, it's vital to figure out a way to eliminate unwanted/unneeded variables because they can dilute our focus. We all have the same amount of focus, the difference is how we choose to direct and utilize it.

The legendary golfer, Jack Nicklaus, said he rarely had more than one "swing thought" during a round of golf. This way he could completely focus on his game without confusing himself with unneeded choices about how to swing the golf club.

I suggest you do the same, try to condense your game into just one or two key thoughts and anchor them into your "self talk". 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but what's with the seemingly random use of quotation marks?
 
CreeDo said:
I actually picked that because basically it's a dead topic... I figured, rather than pile on TOI and add to an ongoing conflict, I'd mention something unrelated that hopefully makes the point (and I figured it's been out of circulation long enough that there's no danger of the comment flaring up into a new debate).

I actually don't mind TOI, and have been playing around with it. CJ's "presentation" certainly gives Hal Houle's the 6-out.



Others have made this point before me, but: at times it can creep into unrelated threads... it's disheartening when there's an interesting thread going on, someone brings up [3-letter-acronym], and ... sigh... here we go again. The topic is hopelessly derailed. To be fair sometimes not CJ that brings it up.

Example: Someone asked if there are any pros using lots of center ball/vertical axis shooting, because they want more of that in their game. So they asked who they should watch and emulate. CJ jumps in saying very nearly 0%. So far so good, I'm interested in hearing what a high level player like CJ has to say on the subject. But then there's the inevitable TOI plug and some stuff about pinning etc. Suddenly there's JB and neil and others squabbling. It all goes downhill from there.



I think good management listens to the guests and works to accommodate them.
So far it's ok.
Click to expand...

I could break bread with you. :thumbup2:
 
JoeyA said:
I could break bread with you. :thumbup2:
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What are you doing awake at this awful hour of the morning? I'm not used to reading you in the morning forum rush hour. Me, I'm just rising and shining, sipping my Pleasant Morning Buzz. :cool:
 
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