Man charged for trading ivory

I am always sorry to see anyone put themselves in a position like this, hopefully he had documentation for some of the Ivory in question. While I personally love Ivory in a cue and for a ferrule, I would never want animals killed to fill my needs. Many of the African countries today are harvesting Ivory to sell to help their economies, and they are not killing the animals in the process. It has become like farming in many of these countries and this Ivory is being sold legally on the world market, some is even being imported into the USA.

I have never done any business with Barringer, and man I am really glad that I have only dealt with reputable companies like Worthier for all my Ivory needs. I would bet that some of our forum members may be receiving a call from the Fed's if they purchased Ivory from Barringer, because I bet that all his records were also taken during the bust. The bad part about this is that it doesn't matter if you knew you were buying illegal Ivory or not the crime is the same either way and so are the penalties are the same also.

This could really open up a big can of worms for many many people, not to mention that cues that were built using the material could be confiscated, I only hope the Fed's don't pursue this as far as they can!!!!!!:o

JIMO
 
I think that all elephants should be killed that everyone of us could have a very nice cue. And btw...I need a new carpet and I like tigers very much.
I don`t like comparing rape or murder to killing elephants but I`m shocked what attitude most of the az members has...And comparison between killing animals for something as useless as ivory to killing animals for food is even more idiotic then the rape-poaching thing.
And offcourse ivory is taken only from dead elephants and the money goes to poor african children. and the fur coats are made from dead animals which died from natural death...
Demand for ivory is the cause of illegal ivory and that is a fact.
My main point is: Ivory is useless, expect for decoration and IMO, killing animals for decoration is not a very nice thing :) And do not kid yourself that just because someone tells you that this is a pre-ban ivory or an ivory taken from an allready dead animal, that this is true. Or you can distinguish preban and post ban ivory:smile:
p.s. even if something is legal it doesn`t make it right.
greets from Europe and sorry about my english:grin:
 
supergreenman said:
Looking at this as the death of a single animal instead of stepping back and looking at the illegal ivory trade as a whole is naive.

Most people don't have a problem recognizing that it is wrong to purchase conflict diamonds. People are enslaved, murdered and abused in order to bring these diamonds to market.

Do you think that people that poach elephants for the ivory are just well meaning entrepeneurs? They aren't, they are ruthless murderers that would think nothing of killing the park ranger that caught them poaching. They have no problem bribing government officials to get thier products into market.

Ivory on Cue = blood diamond.

All that aside, how can you make the assertion that people who are advocates for anamals, the ecosystems they live in and the biodiversity which is the lifesupport of the planet are part of the reason the "world is nearing the end of it's existance"? It doesn't make any sense.

People who cling to any grey area in order to satisfy thier vanity rather than honor the spirit of a law designed to keep a species from extinction are more likely to be the cause of any such end of existance.
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Wow it amazes me when people like to get on their high horses about a particular subject, but also fail to see some of the bigger pictures that are excepted practices as well. All I will say is if you own a cell phone or computer, you might want to turn those in as well because there is a natural mineral mined in Africa that ten of thousands of people, humans are being killed for that mineral. This is happening right now as we speak. I know this is a little off the stimulating ivory discussion, but it speaks to the point of if your going to take a stance like this on whats right and wrong then stand up for all that is right and wrong. Dont just get on your soap box and thump people on the head with the moral and legal argument about things that you happen to not be involved in, but yet turn blind eye and are benefitting from others sufferings to bring us our way of life. That would make us the worst of all, a hypocrite!! Just my humble opinion.

FC
 
It's because of threads like these that I only use Triceratops horns for my inlays and ferrule, and Condor feathers for my wrap. I tried using Kryptonite once, but the radiation it gave off started to burn my hand after awhile. I want no part of the ivory police kicking down my door.

Johnny
 
Supergreenman,

I agree with almost everything you have said.

However, this is a forum of pool players.

What might you expect? Thought provoking philosophical dialog?

I enjoy pool players as a group in general. My expectations for their broad world views on most subjects almost never disappoint me.

Keep the bar low.
 
Nekdo said:
I think that all elephants should be killed that everyone of us could have a very nice cue. And btw...I need a new carpet and I like tigers very much.
I don`t like comparing rape or murder to killing elephants but I`m shocked what attitude most of the az members has...And comparison between killing animals for something as useless as ivory to killing animals for food is even more idiotic then the rape-poaching thing.
And offcourse ivory is taken only from dead elephants and the money goes to poor african children. and the fur coats are made from dead animals which died from natural death...
Demand for ivory is the cause of illegal ivory and that is a fact.
My main point is: Ivory is useless, expect for decoration and IMO, killing animals for decoration is not a very nice thing :) And do not kid yourself that just because someone tells you that this is a pre-ban ivory or an ivory taken from an allready dead animal, that this is true. Or you can distinguish preban and post ban ivory:smile:
p.s. even if something is legal it doesn`t make it right.
greets from Europe and sorry about my english:grin:
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Good post !
 
I love how anytime there is a debate about something it becomes....(so and so) are just not intellectual people. ie: pool players.

Not just people have different opinions about certain things and used their right to share such opinions in a effort to create a conversation.
 
supergreenman said:
This is a good thing in my opinion. They should be tracking down his customers too.

Too many people think it's thier god given right to use endangered animal parts for asthetic decorations on thier pool cues.

I'm quite aware that my opinion on this matter is very unpopular on this forum, I can deal with that.

Sometimes you just have to listen to that little voice in your head that tells you right from wrong and not the voice of outrage because your being denied something you have the hard cash to pay for.

This isn't an animal rights issue, it's a right or wrong issue. Buying Ivory is wrong.
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I'm with you 100%. Thank you for posting this unpopular viewpoint.
 
Baxter said:
...and your willingness to "look away" from everything that is morally wrong involving this is asinine imo. I'll never see this logic as just, and lose virtually all respect for anyone who subscribes to this train of thought. If you love ivory cues so much that you don't care that you may be contributing to the death of a species, then we will never see eye to eye and I will most likely consider you to be classless, disrespectful of the planet you live on, and an all-around tool. Just my opinion.
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lol - this is why I love AZ so much. If you questions someone else's opinion and they don't have the ability to use logic or facts to defend their position...they simply start calling you names. The use of the straw man was pretty good as well, as I see absolutely nothing in my post to indicate I'm the person you just attributed your insults to.

Congrats AZ - another thread gone to hell.
 
Baxter said:
Obviously I can't stop anyone from putting ivory in their cue. That's your decision to make.
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Thanks - that is very nice of you to allow us that decision. After all those names you called me, I feared you would be taking over all of my future decision-making.

Baxter said:
I'm just asking everyone to think about it. If you decide you still want that ivory, at least do everything in your power to assure that it is indeed "legal" ivory and was not poached. You should be able to do that at the very least. If you don't, I hope you can sleep with yourself at night.
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That's fairly easy - is the cuemaker honest and reputable in my opinion? Yes. Job done. Looking forward to yet another good night's sleep.

Baxter said:
Me personally will never own a cue with ivory in it.
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Baxter said:
I bow down to you as the supreme image of righteousness and will have an icon constructed with your image surrounded by faux-ivory inlays.
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Good luckproving this in court. The record keeping on elephant death certificates is pretty rough, I here. Then you have to DNA match it.

So, the entire case will rest on him knowingly receiving post ban ivory. Selling an ivory pool cue in America was legal when I lived there a year ago.

This is alot like the story of "man arrested with 4 guns." gosh, I thought in America, that was legal.

What will my headline be? "Man arrested with 10+ gun arsenal, bomb making equipment(reloading press), and a nice looking pool cue without his federal identification card!" :slap:
 
It's also very convenient to edit out facts that someone posts when you quote them. I did back my argument with facts, as in that the use of ivory is not instrumental in the construction of a cue. It is used as optional decoration, it is not neccessary whatsoever. I also showed the flaws within your reasoning. I then reiterated my stance with more insight into my personal opinion. I was not calling anyone names or insulting anyone in particular, merely stating my opinion and my point of view. Don't like it, deal with it.
 
A $100,000 fine is no little slap on the wrist. In these economic times I am surprised no one mentioned how something like this can bankrupt and ruin someone!!!!!

One year of expenses and no income while incarcerated! Another devastating financial blow!!!!

The cue may have had ivory ferrulles only! We dont know and it does not say how much ivory was in the cue sold in the british sting? I highly doubt it was a ivory segmented ivory handle job costing thousands!

In this case the crime does not fit the punishment and could be classified as cruel and unusual punishment for a businessmen! But, there is something to say about karma and you never know when it will jump up and bite you in the A$$. I have no dealings with Mr. Berreanger excuse my spelling. Just read some horrible things in numerous threads about him.

As always just some food for thought and best to one and all !!!!!!

Kid Dynomite
 
runscott said:
Thanks - that is very nice of you to allow us that decision. After all those names you called me, I feared you would be taking over all of my future decision-making.



That's fairly easy - is the cuemaker honest and reputable in my opinion? Yes. Job done. Looking forward to yet another good night's sleep.

Baxter said:
I bow down to you as the supreme image of righteousness and will have an icon constructed with your image surrounded by faux-ivory inlays.
Click to expand...


Ok, now I am insulting you. You're an idiot, that's a fact. Of course, my father taught me that you can not argue reasonably with an idiot. So, I'm done with your dumb ass. Have fun replying to no one.
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Richardson said:
I love how anytime there is a debate about something it becomes....(so and so) are just not intellectual people. ie: pool players.

Not just people have different opinions about certain things and used their right to share such opinions in a effort to create a conversation.
Click to expand...

I think the conversation is good, but I disagree that you should ban something altogether because the illegal elements aren't being policed properly. And the self-righteousness makes me gag.

I hate to give Supergreenman this, but unfortunately the poaching is going on in an area of the world that's filled with corruption, so the bad that comes from the demand probably outweighs the pleasure we get from it - much like the 'blood diamond' example; however, I don't agree that 'ivory in pool cues' = 'blood diamonds'. That logic would also mean that 'all diamonds' = 'blood diamonds'. Personally, I have no use for diamonds, but do we ban them altogether because of the atrocities he mentions?
 
Cuban cigars

here is an quote from an article on Cuban Cigars
& the Link
http://aedelta.com/2010/10/27/cuban-cigars-a-brief-history-of-cigars/

"As a matter of fact, it is not actually illegal to have Cuban cigars. It’s important to note that if you privately have some cigars, you will probably not be fined. It’s only the large businesses that sell the cigars en masse who are fined. For the most part, however, you are risking very little if you happen to get your hands on a cigar from Cuba."

Many smoke shops do have the in the states.They just can not sell them ,but they can give them away to their clients.
You can still get them here in the states very easily.Just ask one of your state delegates if you are friendly with them .The next time they go to Cuba bring you back a box.They are allowed to bring a certain number back with them.Or find a friend of Cuban decent that is allowed to go to Cuba They too can legally bring them to the states.
Also read what JFK had Pierre Salinger do for him prior to JFK signing the Embargo .
http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/Kennedy-Cuba-and-Cigars_8283
 
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