MatchRoom's response to the WPA player sanctions:

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
I took it as her saying that non-MR events were "amateur" by the way they were run, the production value, brackets and live scoring, etc.

Look at the final of the 2015 World 9 Ball compared to the 2022 World 9 Ball. By comparison, 2015 looks like an amateur event. It's all relative.





In WPA records America has never won a Straight Pool Championship.

Relative in many ways, by discipline and even year.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Interesting. I see similar. The USA players will all go MR because there is no BCA/USA structure. The Rouge and outspoken European players like Shaw, Appleton, Boyes, will go MR. The Fillipinos will go MR because they do whatever they please and rarely leave their country anyway because of the travel and visa difficulties.

The careful Europeans, such as Souquet, Ouschan, He, Thorston, will go WPA.

Does anyone know if USA living players who represent Europe get the financial support? (Thorston, Mika, etc).
The players will go where the money is. Always have, always will!

How do you think a promoter of a major WPA event will feel if most, if not all, the top players are banned from participating because they are playing the Matchroom events? Who will they blame for that and how will they respond? I suspect they would no longer be interested in paying a worthless sanction fee first of all. Perhaps they would then consider becoming part of the Matchroom group of events. Just food for thought.
 

RunoutJJ

Professional Banger
Silver Member
If I were a professional player trying to make a living in this game I would go with the most guaranteed outcome for success and there can only be one.

Sounds to me matchroom has the best interest of the players on the whole. I don’t know the whole story but matchroom seems like the better organization to be behind.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Predator has been pretty cool about letting the players they sponsor play any event they want including skipping Predator events to participate in a Matchroom event. I wonder if Predator might feel more strongly about whether their players get WPA suspensions and then become prohibited from playing in their events entirely. So that’s an angle that hasn’t been discussed much. But also Predator events have continued to get weaker and weaker fields. If suspensions are involved that might get worse.

So there could be a side effect where Predator slowly starts putting on fewer events. It’s possible they might have been on that track anyway and this might it help. This certainly can drive a wedge when it comes to the 8-ball and 10-ball world championships if the WNT players end up not being able to participate in them.

i've noted that predator has cut down on the field size for the WCs. in 2021 they had 96 player field, in 2022 it was 128 players and now back to 96 players. same prize fund it seems

but their business model is different and dependent on showcasing their products. the pool table market share is probably a big factor for them
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
These words spoken by Shane Van Boening say it all about a pro player's capability to make ends meet. I queued it up to the audio counter where Shane shares his thoughts about income.

 

DaWizard

Well-known member
Screenshot_20230903_123840_com.facebook.katana_edit_8958072226237.jpg
 

Oze147

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The players will go where the money is. Always have, always will!
Jay, you might be the person on the forum with the most inside knowledge about the pro circuit and the players.

I want to ask you about your opinion on how many pros rely on the financial backing of their national federations to pay for flights, hotels, every day costs etc. and how many players can make a living just playing MR´s events.

I totally agree with your point, that the players will follow the money, but I get the feeling, that a lot of people underestimate the amount of money that flows from the IOC or governments through the national organizations down to the players.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jay, you might be the person on the forum with the most inside knowledge about the pro circuit and the players.

I want to ask you about your opinion on how many pros rely on the financial backing of their national federations to pay for flights, hotels, every day costs etc. and how many players can make a living just playing MR´s events.

I totally agree with your point, that the players will follow the money, but I get the feeling, that a lot of people underestimate the amount of money that flows from the IOC or governments through the national organizations down to the players.
I cannot give you a definitive answer to all that you've asked of me. I'm not familiar with the support provided to the pro players in Europe, country by country. I do know that in the Philippines, the very best players receive regular monthly support from the Philippine government, typically in the neighborhood of $500 to $1,000 per month. Efren and Francisco have had this level of support for decades now. Others like Dennis, Carlo, Johann and James also receive similar assistance. If a Filipino player wins a world championship they will get a bonus, as much as $20,000. They will also receive smaller amounts for a runner-up finish, maybe half that or $10,000. Same for winning a gold medal in the SEA games, the Asian Olympics.
 
Last edited:

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
If I were a professional player trying to make a living in this game I would go with the most guaranteed outcome for success and there can only be one.

Sounds to me matchroom has the best interest of the players on the whole. I don’t know the whole story but matchroom seems like the better organization to be behind.
OR.... would you see that the players are all going to one place, and you go to the other where the numbers are just as high, but the caliber isn't.

I agree with you though, go where the money is.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Some, like Oscar, have remarked that the WPA has done nothing....

The first WPA World Championship was in 1990. Did pool in the world improve between then and 2019? I think it did. Should the WPA get any credit for that happening?
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some, like Oscar, have remarked that the WPA has done nothing....

The first WPA World Championship was in 1990. Did pool in the world improve between then and 2019? I think it did. Should the WPA get any credit for that happening?
I have been probably the loudest naysayer when it comes to the WPA, especially under Ian Anderson's leadership. I do see pros and cons with each side today between WPA, MR, and federations, but it's not my fight. As a pool enthusiast, I'm hoping for a negotiation that will allow all sides to prosper.

That said, the name-calling has become rampant on Facebook with people taking potshots at others who may not share their opinion. It's quite sad that it's come to this. The way I feel about pool today because of it, quite frankly, I don't give a damn anymore. It's turned ugly, and I don't want to be a part of it.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some, like Oscar, have remarked that the WPA has done nothing....

The first WPA World Championship was in 1990. Did pool in the world improve between then and 2019? I think it did. Should the WPA get any credit for that happening?

Personally I think the pool world has improved more in the last 4 years with MRs involvement than it did in the 29 previous years.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jay, you might be the person on the forum with the most inside knowledge about the pro circuit and the players.

I want to ask you about your opinion on how many pros rely on the financial backing of their national federations to pay for flights, hotels, every day costs etc. and how many players can make a living just playing MR´s events.

I totally agree with your point, that the players will follow the money, but I get the feeling, that a lot of people underestimate the amount of money that flows from the IOC or governments through the national organizations down to the players.

for top pros with good sponsors and frequent high tournament finishes i would think not being able to compete in the world 8b, world 10b, china open etc is a worse blow than losing any federation support
 

justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
The WPA is exercising a new culture, new leadership and new interpretations on its laws. How will individual federations respond?

In the WCBS format do all federations have to impose the same interpretation of ban rules? Is it a ban from all federations?

Will exemptions to bans or permits be given for players to participate in non-sanctioned events?

Will there be a process to appeal bans written at the federation level?
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some, like Oscar, have remarked that the WPA has done nothing....

The first WPA World Championship was in 1990. Did pool in the world improve between then and 2019? I think it did. Should the WPA get any credit for that happening?

i think we really have to compare to other sports, and not achieving a pro tour in all those years is quite poor. the european continental federation has done better than WPA in that regard.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
i think we really have to compare to other sports, and not achieving a pro tour in all those years is quite poor. the european continental federation has done better than WPA in that regard.
And I think it is mostly up to the continental federations to do local events. That is not the WPA's responsibility. I don't think the confederations would want the WPA to tell them what to do. I suppose the WPA Board could have encouraged the confederations to do more. The WPA was/is responsible for World Championships and other world-wide activities, and they mostly depend on others to produce those events.
 
Top