MatchRoom's response to the WPA player sanctions:
- Thread starter The_JV
- Start date
that's a very good point. they would have their hands full with (1) and all the unsanctioned events in the USA, for example. but if the polish federation's action is anything to go by it's (3) and effectively two events per year.
estonia is a very small country, but it's the same in sweden. the direct support is insignificant for big names (not that sweden has many big names atm). the local elite events have good organization, drug testing and low prize money.
i assume he means poland, netherlands and austria. but even there i'm not sure govt support is more important for the top names than not being able to play certain events. that's the real squeeze
I think the banning of the Singapore players was a bad omen, as none of them even participated in the unsanctioned English Billiards event. Of course, that may have been a one off mistake that will be addressed by the the WPA. Or we need to add another category to Matt’s list.
And it will take much more then an apology to make things right again.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
This may be just my dumb opinion but I think snooker is better on tv because the balls are a solid color. Stripes and numbers do not look good on a screen. They dilute the sharp looks of a sphere by breaking it up. They also have better production methods, or did, now pool is catching up.
Supposedly snooker was pushed hard after the invention of color TV. It would be a nice program to enjoy your new colour tv in style, and may even push domestic television sales. I'm sure many color television sets were sold to snooker fans after they had a hard time telling which gray was the red.
The numbers on balls make pool worse. A fan feels clever if they know the red is the 3 or the yellow is the one. How much is a brown worth in snooker? The fans know. How do they know without a number? The color of the ball... because you couldn't see a little 4 on the ball over a screen even if there were one.
Now the colors are screwed up and the 5 is purple and the 4 pink. You can't feel clever if you wonder why they shot the 5 before the 4 on every game.
Sorry for the long thoughts, sometimes they don't come out as concise as I'd like. Here's a neat one to drift off to:
If Russian players are ban, would federation members in the WCBS consider a ban on the Russian federation traveling to the General Assembly?
The logic for Russian players receiving a ban, is the same for federation officials to be banned. Travel restrictions.
WPA issues most don't know about them until they take a government contract.
The logic for Russian players receiving a ban, is the same for federation officials to be banned. Travel restrictions.
WPA issues most don't know about them until they take a government contract.
I think I found the WPA’s problem, they don’t have any marketing types or people who can choke down their ego enough to make the best business decisions.
My WPA Statement, instead of sanctioning players:
“At the WPA we are excited about the opportunity that Matchroom and other non-sanctioned events are providing pool players and pool fans alike. We look forward to working will all those who have an interest in promoting pool. However we do worry that if we lack coordination, significant pool tournaments may be diluted which hurts the long term prospects of the sport, and by extension, the players and fans.
We remain steadfast in our dream and goal that some form of cue sports join its rightful place among the Olympic Games, which would preserve and enhance opportunity of cue sports worldwide for all participants and investors. A particular concern is that Matchroom is highlighting one particular game (9-ball) at expense of others. We at the WPA feel that the best way to promote pool is providing an opportunity for multiple disciplines to shine.
That being said, the world of pool is big, perhaps bigger than the general public believes, and we look forward to working on a path forward with all investors to provide the best for our players and fans.”
My WPA Statement, instead of sanctioning players:
“At the WPA we are excited about the opportunity that Matchroom and other non-sanctioned events are providing pool players and pool fans alike. We look forward to working will all those who have an interest in promoting pool. However we do worry that if we lack coordination, significant pool tournaments may be diluted which hurts the long term prospects of the sport, and by extension, the players and fans.
We remain steadfast in our dream and goal that some form of cue sports join its rightful place among the Olympic Games, which would preserve and enhance opportunity of cue sports worldwide for all participants and investors. A particular concern is that Matchroom is highlighting one particular game (9-ball) at expense of others. We at the WPA feel that the best way to promote pool is providing an opportunity for multiple disciplines to shine.
That being said, the world of pool is big, perhaps bigger than the general public believes, and we look forward to working on a path forward with all investors to provide the best for our players and fans.”
I remain results oriented, and if you compare what the WPA accomplished over the last twenty five years with what Matchroom accomplished during the last five years, it's no contest. Matchroom has a proven track record of success in every sport it's gotten involved with and the WPA has for the most part failed miserably to improve the fortunes of professional pool players. Over twenty years ago Matchroom and the WPA had a similar disagreement over who will produce the World Pool Championship. So they both produced one that year. The WPA version had a shallow field of players and Nick Varner won. He got $15,000 for first. The Matchroom version had a full field (128) of top flight talent and I believe Efren won. He got $60,000! On the one hand you have a professional organization (Matchroom) that has the know how to produce first class events that are well run and well promoted, draw good crowds and get good ratings on television and online. Or you can chose the organization that cares little how an event is promoted or run, draws slim to small crowds, and is rarely televised with only amateurish streaming being done.
The best outcome for pro players is to be better known and thus better compensated. This will never happen with the WPA, and is already happening with Matchroom. The answer here imo is a no-brainer!
The best outcome for pro players is to be better known and thus better compensated. This will never happen with the WPA, and is already happening with Matchroom. The answer here imo is a no-brainer!
I have to laugh at anyone supporting the WPA. They have done ZERO to promote pool in the last 20 years, they've just continued to take their pound of flesh while pool and the players suffer. Who gives a crap really? They'll go the way of the dodo bird if they don't change their tune. MR can start a new World Pool Organization, hell, call it the WPO and then make their own world championships.
That they have the money and the best players will be the deciding factor. He who has the money, makes the rules.
Jaden
That they have the money and the best players will be the deciding factor. He who has the money, makes the rules.
Jaden
Has anyone thought that this result might be exactly what MR is looking for??? What better way to get rid of a useless organization and to start their own than to get them to ban players from the WPA sanctioned events while MR events are the ones paying out the most?
Everyone knows that the players will go where the money is. Hell, as Jay pointed out, MR knows from personal experience when putting on the world championship the same year as the WPA's sanctioned event.
I think that the WPA is in a battle they can't win but they won't let their egos rest long enough to realize the only course of action that doesn't result in their own demise.
Jaden
Everyone knows that the players will go where the money is. Hell, as Jay pointed out, MR knows from personal experience when putting on the world championship the same year as the WPA's sanctioned event.
I think that the WPA is in a battle they can't win but they won't let their egos rest long enough to realize the only course of action that doesn't result in their own demise.
Jaden
None of this is cut and dried. As Fran Crimi has rightly pointed out, there are aspects of this dispute that are not out in the open. She is also right in saying that this is as it should be.
Most us can only assess this matter on a very macro level and consider some of the possible issues and outcomes of this dispute. This requires, at least, some speculation, but I’ll take a shot.
This is what you call a turf war. WPA has never had a serious rival for control of the world of pro pool until now, and that rival is formidable. The two are not working together, and it’s water under the bridge, because the reasons no longer matter.
In the last few months alone, Matchroom paid out about $1,000,000 combined at a) the World Pool Masters, b) the World Cup of Pool, c) the UK Open, d) the Spanish Open, and e) the European Open. They’re about to pay out another $300,000 at the US Open 9-ball, another $200,000 at the Asian Open and another $300,000 at the Mosconi. They are blowing WPA out of the water in many respects and WPA has to scramble just to keep pace.
Many are tempted to conclude that this turf war will come down to financial muscle, with Matchroom having deeper pockets than WPA. These are likely the same people that believed that the IPT in 2006 would last forever as Trudeau had very deep pockets, certainly far deeper than anyone involved with pool. The truth is that successful business people are the first, not the last, to pull the plug on a losing business venture. Underperforming divisions are regularly shut down even in the world’s largest companies.
Hence, one cannot expect Matchroom to blow WPA out of the water by making their tour so lucrative that most of the top pros will follow them. One thing I love about how Matchroom is managing its growing pro pool empire is that they are growing things gradually, and that prize money will only grow to the extent that revenues dictate. Kevn Trudeau and the IPT offered us a virtual tutorial on the danger of setting costs very high before the revenue model is fully validated. I really don’t think that Matchroom’s exceptional management team will repeat that error, instead staying the course as they gradually grow our sport.
The growth that has been brought about by Matchroom is the only really significant growth in our game in many years, and now I sense that WPA is scrambling to compete. They can do so in two ways that I’d like to consider: 1) add events and, thereby, make regular participation more attractive to pro players, or 2) by obstructing or undermining the efforts of Matchroom. I’ll steer clear of the Olympic/IOC/Federation money issues, deferring it for another day.
Adding Events
This would be taking the high road. If that’s what WPA does to make pool a better career for players, that’s great.
Obstructing or Undermining the Efforts of Matchroom
Taking sanctions against those who participate in Matchroom events, regardless of whether those events coincide with Matchroom’s events, would be taking the low road. There’s growing evidence that WPA is planning on pursuing this course.
Conclusion
Best case would be if WPA and Matchroom found some path to settling their differences. I still believe it is possible, even though things have become rather contentious. Nonetheless, it can be easily argued that pro pool has outgrown the WPA and its capabilities.
All that said, if no reconciliation is forthcoming between WPA and Matchroom, I want Matchroom to win this turf war, because if they don’t, I believe that the top pro players will see their income prospects drop precipitously.
Surely, Matchroom won’t be bullied here, but they must still tread carefully. If WPA scares Matchroom away from the major pool scene, an unlikely but possible outcome, they will have done great damage to the sport worldwide.
Matchroom is the best thing to happen to pool in decades, but the WPA needs to get out of the way. If they put their organizational pride before the best interests of the players, woe is all of us.
Finally, as noted at the beginning of my post, I’ve engaged in at least some speculation in this post. I'll also note that I've not considered WPA as it pertains to women's pro pool.
Most us can only assess this matter on a very macro level and consider some of the possible issues and outcomes of this dispute. This requires, at least, some speculation, but I’ll take a shot.
This is what you call a turf war. WPA has never had a serious rival for control of the world of pro pool until now, and that rival is formidable. The two are not working together, and it’s water under the bridge, because the reasons no longer matter.
In the last few months alone, Matchroom paid out about $1,000,000 combined at a) the World Pool Masters, b) the World Cup of Pool, c) the UK Open, d) the Spanish Open, and e) the European Open. They’re about to pay out another $300,000 at the US Open 9-ball, another $200,000 at the Asian Open and another $300,000 at the Mosconi. They are blowing WPA out of the water in many respects and WPA has to scramble just to keep pace.
Many are tempted to conclude that this turf war will come down to financial muscle, with Matchroom having deeper pockets than WPA. These are likely the same people that believed that the IPT in 2006 would last forever as Trudeau had very deep pockets, certainly far deeper than anyone involved with pool. The truth is that successful business people are the first, not the last, to pull the plug on a losing business venture. Underperforming divisions are regularly shut down even in the world’s largest companies.
Hence, one cannot expect Matchroom to blow WPA out of the water by making their tour so lucrative that most of the top pros will follow them. One thing I love about how Matchroom is managing its growing pro pool empire is that they are growing things gradually, and that prize money will only grow to the extent that revenues dictate. Kevn Trudeau and the IPT offered us a virtual tutorial on the danger of setting costs very high before the revenue model is fully validated. I really don’t think that Matchroom’s exceptional management team will repeat that error, instead staying the course as they gradually grow our sport.
The growth that has been brought about by Matchroom is the only really significant growth in our game in many years, and now I sense that WPA is scrambling to compete. They can do so in two ways that I’d like to consider: 1) add events and, thereby, make regular participation more attractive to pro players, or 2) by obstructing or undermining the efforts of Matchroom. I’ll steer clear of the Olympic/IOC/Federation money issues, deferring it for another day.
Adding Events
This would be taking the high road. If that’s what WPA does to make pool a better career for players, that’s great.
Obstructing or Undermining the Efforts of Matchroom
Taking sanctions against those who participate in Matchroom events, regardless of whether those events coincide with Matchroom’s events, would be taking the low road. There’s growing evidence that WPA is planning on pursuing this course.
Conclusion
Best case would be if WPA and Matchroom found some path to settling their differences. I still believe it is possible, even though things have become rather contentious. Nonetheless, it can be easily argued that pro pool has outgrown the WPA and its capabilities.
All that said, if no reconciliation is forthcoming between WPA and Matchroom, I want Matchroom to win this turf war, because if they don’t, I believe that the top pro players will see their income prospects drop precipitously.
Surely, Matchroom won’t be bullied here, but they must still tread carefully. If WPA scares Matchroom away from the major pool scene, an unlikely but possible outcome, they will have done great damage to the sport worldwide.
Matchroom is the best thing to happen to pool in decades, but the WPA needs to get out of the way. If they put their organizational pride before the best interests of the players, woe is all of us.
Finally, as noted at the beginning of my post, I’ve engaged in at least some speculation in this post. I'll also note that I've not considered WPA as it pertains to women's pro pool.
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I think this is a great breakdown. As much as I support t matchroom there is a danger present when the major tour is wholly owned by a private multimedia organization. It’s not like the ATP would ever shift gears and promote pickle ball. But matchroom could, in theory, either pull out or pull back without leaving anything to fill the void. But that’s not to say they shouldn’t be supported.
But sadly I don’t see WPA theoretically adding more events to compete because their constant refrain is that they are not promoters. Which is frustrating because they take credit for their growing calendar but refuse responsibilities for any gaps in it or the prize money.
So the head of a national federation views himself as a visionary that can see the best interest of the players (10 years into the future) and views the athletes as being unable to make decisions for themselves beyond 48 hours into the future. That sounded a bit insulting. Are the players not adults with agency, freedom and respect?
I support Matchroom giving date consideration to any WPA sanctioned “world championship” with $200k+ total prize fund. But not a continental championship that’s only offering medals. That much you have to let the players decide for themselves.
There is a big "BUT" here but it's not with Matchroom. For many years Matchroom tried to work with the WPA. They sat down with them many times and tried to resolve their differences, all to no avail. Matchroom did not ignore the WPA, until they found them to be intransigent and unwilling to compromise. It was only in the last year they finally gave up and decided to go it on their own with the Matchroom Nine Ball Tour, plus the Asian Nine Ball Tour. The WPA had their chance, many of them, to work in harmony with Matchroom, but they were unwilling to give up their control of Matchroom produced events. There is more to this story but this is the essence of what took place. The letter above from the Bulgarian Federation is an attempt to place blame on Matchroom for the success they have achieved in elevating pro pool to a stature not seen before, with no help from the WPA or its member associations.
I will only comment on the second half of his letter by saying this. I've been there for the last thirty years and seen all the "love and respect" the players got from the WPA, and also who the greedy parties were, so he can save that plea on me.
What they should do to retain the offices of the WPA is to turn it over to people aligned with Matchroom. Otherwise let them labor on in anonymity, relagated to the dustbin of history. I will only say this one more time. If the players let this opportunity that has been presented to them by Matchroom slip away, then they deserve their fate. I've seen two other great opportunities (not with Trudeau who I never trusted) for pro pool be lost because of poor decision making by the players. First with Richie Florence's events backed by Caesars World and Budweiser, with ESPN attached to it at NO COST to the promoter. When the players were cajoled into not signing very standard televison releases it all went kaput. Second with the Camel Pro Tour undermined by a dictatorial leader who mesmerized the players into following him down a dead end that only enriched one man.
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It's difficult to take a leader of an organization seriously when they write a letter like that. There aren't any excuses for it either in 2023.
I hope the BCA open letter is as interesting to read as other federations.