metal rings

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv

mortuarymike-nv
Silver Member
i havent had much luck with metal rings
either they have rough edges ,the epoxy breaks loose and the ring spins ,
glue lines . if the ring is next to maple you turn the maple black .
or after awhile the ring pops throught the finish.
do i need a live cutter like a router?
at this point i dont want to use metal rings because i do a poor job.
MMike
 
Every cue, that I have seen, that has metal rings, you can feel the rings.

Sometimes it is 3 months to a year, but I think they all pop through.

I think they look very nice and dress up a cue.

This is just my experience. I don't use them for that reason.

Kim
 
I hope somebody has some magic to offer mortuarymike, all of my metal rings make bumps...it's madness.....

I think my "m" key is stuck......


Seriously though. I don't like metal rings for this reason. It's one of the reasons I don't like Shon. Well....I do like them really....but I can't understand why they decided long ago to put metal rings in all of their joint rings. Never made sense to me for what those cues cost. It always seemed to me the dashed ring or something should have been where they went.

I see metal rings like I see the old thin meucci ferrule. It guarantees the repair guys some work.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
I just ordered some nickel silver from Prather.
I am scared now.
Click to expand...

Just walk around the local pool hall and feel all the metal rings in the various cues. you can usually feel them all, even on new cues.

Maybe that's acceptable.

I don't like it.

Even fiber rings will pop once in a while but not very often. I take a little extra hit with the sand paper on fiber rings and I try to let the cue hang a little over size before the final cut and finishing. In my opinion, this gives time for everything to even out with the humidity.

It doesn't hurt to let the cue hang a while after it is finished. and before buffing, to allow time for the finish to shrink or sink or whatever you want to call it.



Kim
 
rings

Blue Hog ridr said:
I just ordered some nickel silver from Prather.
I am scared now.
Click to expand...

I use alot of sterling silver rings, nickel silver seems to pop more but sterling is alot softer. It takes alot more effort and time to get the rings looking good in a cue. The pinch-down effect of finishes on rings has been discussed here before, I'm not sure it can be avoided. It can be minimized, but not avoided. JMO

Alan
 
I'm new to cue building, so my technique may not work in the long run. To avoid feeling the rings (currently aluminum to hopefully improve adhesion), I am cutting the rings (with a stationary cutter) a little and then filling the void with finish over the course of multiple coats. It removes the marks made by the router and leaves a pretty, uniformly shiny surface. My epoxy finish is also pretty thick.

ps Thus far, I've only used metal rings sandwiched between black rings of double black linen or black fiber.
 
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Metal rings

Make sure the tool is sharp and take small cuts, and finally under cut them a bit. If you heat up the rings by taking big cuts with a dull tool they will spin or flatten out . The right turning speed for whatever tool you are using will help.

Mario
 
Mcues said:
Make sure the tool is sharp and take small cuts, and finally under cut them a bit. If you heat up the rings by taking big cuts with a dull tool they will spin or flatten out . The right turning speed for whatever tool you are using will help.

Mario
Click to expand...

I've been waiting for someone to give some correct information. Chances are the rings will still pop some but it will be much longer down the road. Clear finish does not adhere to metal without a primer and most people don't want their cues to be flat black or tan. The metal rings need to be under cut and then the finish must bridge this gap. Finish, by the way does stick more readily to real silver. If your rings flatten or spin they need to be glued better and the tooling needs to be sharper with a small radius. It's hard to sand thin rings with coarser sand paper but that is what needs to be done. The use of a square gum eraser helps when sanding the rings on a flat belt.

Dick
 
guys i know this sounds different from everything being said.
if u cut a thin grove in the wood and used jewellers wire gold and silver.
wrap the grove with wire 3 or 4 times, use a small soldering iron melt the wire together. could i get a nice straight looking ring and hopefully the ring wouldnt pop.
has anyone tried this?
MMike
 
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mortuarymike-nv said:
guys i know this sounds different from everything being said.
if u cut a thin grove in the wood and used jewellers wire gold and silver.
wrap the grove with wire 3 or 4 times, use a small soldering iron melt the wire together. could i get a nice straight looking ring and hopefully the ring wouldnt pop.
has anyone tried this?
MMike
Click to expand...

I sort of seriously doubt it for a number of reasons. 1. I don't believe a soldering gun get's hot enough to melt neither silver nor gold. 2. if it did get hot enough it would destroy the wood, plastic or phenolic on either side and 3. If it did melt it wouldn't be even and it would run out onto the floor. Just my opinion.

Dick
 
Not sure on the silver, but, gold needs to be heated to 1800 to 2200 degrees to melt.
I think by that time the rest of the cue would be ashes. :(
 
mortuarymike-nv said:
i havent had much luck with metal rings
either they have rough edges ,the epoxy breaks loose and the ring spins ,
glue lines . if the ring is next to maple you turn the maple black .
or after awhile the ring pops throught the finish.
do i need a live cutter like a router?
at this point i dont want to use metal rings because i do a poor job.
MMike
Click to expand...



Mcdermott has one of the best methods of using metals rings and having them stay put than anyone else I have every seen. I don't know what their secret is but it certainly works.
 
I have a Lambros cue at the moment and I can't feel the rings through the finish on that one at all. (3 rings in each of 4 joints) It is one of the first things I always feel for when I handle a cue. I am not sure what is different about that cue or how Mike does it but I guess time will tell if they stay put.
 
rings

using gold or silver wire was a thought.
had to ask . i have a couple of cokers the the rings havent popped.
and i have coker the rings did pop on it.

nevada seems to be a tough on cues .
even though i live in northern nevada it still gets hot.
you guys have answered my questions. thank you
i have also recieve a couple of pms that i think will help too.

D@mm rick thats some spendy epoxy. no pun intended < but i can see how hi temp epoxy would be a benefit.

MMike
 
manwon said:
Mcdermott has one of the best methods of using metals rings and having them stay put than anyone else I have every seen. I don't know what their secret is but it certainly works.
Click to expand...

Peachauer also is very good at keeping the rings from popping.

Rick
 
The coefficient of thermal expansion for silver is 10X10^-6 in per in

(read as ...10 times 10 to the minus 6 inches per inch, per degree F.... or .000010 inches, per inch, per deg F)

Start with a silver butt ring at 1.25 in dia at 32 deg F

increase the temperature to 132 deg F

(100 deg difference to make the math easy)

100 deg times 10X10^-6 times 1.25 in =

1250 times 10^-6 = .001250 inches or about 1 and 1/4 thou.

So a silver butt ring will grow about 1 and 1/4 thousands of an inch if the temperature changes 100 degree F.

Would that make a ring pop? Maybe.

Remember, the ring is not only expanding and contracting in diameter but in width also.

I believe that the wood moves more than the metal ring. As the wood releases or absorbs moisture it changes size. I think finish keeps curing for a long time and shrinks down.

(this is called mental mastrubation)

lol

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
The coefficient of thermal expansion for silver is 10X10^-6 in per in

(read as ...10 times 10 to the minus 6 inches per inch, per degree F.... or .000010 inches, per inch, per deg F)

Start with a silver butt ring at 1.25 in dia at 32 deg F

increase the temperature to 132 deg F

(100 deg difference to make the math easy)

100 deg times 10X10^-6 times 1.25 in =

1250 times 10^-6 = .001250 inches or about 1 and 1/4 thou.

So a silver butt ring will grow about 1 and 1/4 thousands of an inch if the temperature changes 100 degree F.

Would that make a ring pop? Maybe.

Remember, the ring is not only expanding and contracting in diameter but in width also.

I believe that the wood moves more than the metal ring. As the wood releases or absorbs moisture it changes size. I think finish keeps curing for a long time and shrinks down.

(this is called mental mastrubation)

lol

Kim
Click to expand...

Hey Kim,

That is great info, thanks for sharing.

I myself think most of the problems people have with metal rings is due to buffing the finish and letting the cue and finish heat up. We all know how hot you can make something that is spinning by just holding a paper towel against it.

Buffing a cue is a very delicate procedure and requires sensitivity. I believe that high speed buffing of the final steps should and must be done on a large soft wheel with a very light touch to avoid heat build up. The large spinning wheel gives a fan like cooling effect that can not be had when holding a cloth against a spinning cue.

Soft flannel wheels when used correctly and kept clean gives the absolute best results while keeping heat down. IMO.

Rick

Buffer with special motor speed of 1100 RPM as opposed to a normal 1750 rpm motor keeps heat down with a very light pressure for short duration intervals when the cue is buffed vertically.
IMG_3562.jpg


Two 12" buffing wheels (one for material app. and one clean for polishing ) increases the overall foot print of the buffing area to also reduce heat build up. The high volume of air movement also cools the cue with the light touch of the operator. Buffing wheels do not guarantee not over heating the finish as it is the operator who must control the process. If you press the cue hard into the wheel the heat will build up faster and higher that you think it could, Danger Will Robinson.
IMG_3566.jpg


Keep both wheels clean before each step.
IMG_3567.jpg
 
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