Mosconi Affidavit

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
I wanted to thank the person who posted the Mosconi Affidavit from his Straight pool run.

I'm guessing that with a lot of effort I could find the people who are still living on that list or people who are direct relatives from that list.

Would be nice to have them show up and tell the story of being there for that day.

57 years since the event. anyone in there 30 and under could still be alive.

I have the link to the photo, but I need a good copy of it that I can zoom in on.
Does anyone think there would be an interest for this?
 
I wanted to thank the person who posted the Mosconi Affidavit from his Straight pool run.

I'm guessing that with a lot of effort I could find the people who are still living on that list or people who are direct relatives from that list.

Would be nice to have them show up and tell the story of being there for that day.

57 years since the event. anyone in there 30 and under could still be alive.

I have the link to the photo, but I need a good copy of it that I can zoom in on.
Does anyone think there would be an interest for this?

I don't know about any interest but I have met some of the people who were there and there are some still alive in Springfield . If you PM me your number and a copy of the list I will ask them if you can call them or they will call you.
 
I don't know about any interest but I have met some of the people who were there and there are some still alive in Springfield . If you PM me your number and a copy of the list I will ask them if you can call them or they will call you.

I'd especially like any info on how much time the run took. I know Willie played quickly.
 
u12armresl...I tried to find that in the 14.1 forum to no avail. Do you have a link to it?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I wanted to thank the person who posted the Mosconi Affidavit from his Straight pool run.

I'm guessing that with a lot of effort I could find the people who are still living on that list or people who are direct relatives from that list.

Would be nice to have them show up and tell the story of being there for that day.

57 years since the event. anyone in there 30 and under could still be alive.

I have the link to the photo, but I need a good copy of it that I can zoom in on.
Does anyone think there would be an interest for this?
 
u12armresl...I tried to find that in the 14.1 forum to no avail. Do you have a link to it?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


hehe... you've already commented in a thread where the picture was.:D

'Member this?

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=1712607&postcount=20

Here it is again

mosconihighrunaffadavit.jpg
 
pdcue...I suppose anything is possible, but to me that seems highly unlikely. That would mean that Mosconi ran a rack every 4 minutes. While the speed pool champions often are in the 1-2 minute range, it is not logical that someone, even Mosconi, could run 35 racks, at a 4 minute per rack pace. That's also not allowing time to rerack either. The time I've heard mentioned is closer to 3.5 hours, at which point he quit and went to dinner.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

A little over two hours.

Dale
 
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A little over two hours.

Dale

pdcue...I suppose anything is possible, but to me that seems highly unlikely. That would mean that Mosconi ran a rack every 4 minutes. While the speed pool champions often are in the 1-2 minute range, it is not logical that someone, even Mosconi, could run 35 racks, at a 4 minute per rack pace. That's also not allowing time to rerack either. The time I've heard mentioned is closer to 3.5 hours, at which point he quit and went to dinner.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I've heard that 2 hour thing before, including a recent thread here where 2:10:00 was mentioned citing wikipedia. But my question about the time it took is related to the affidavit. Has anyone that signed the document publicly stated how long it took?
 
4-1/2 hours

I've heard that 2 hour thing before, including a recent thread here where 2:10:00 was mentioned citing wikipedia. But my question about the time it took is related to the affidavit. Has anyone that signed the document publicly stated how long it took?


In the document referenced in post#10, Dick Hatfield is quoted:

"Bruney safe-broke the balls at 8:00pm that March 18th, Mosconi shot second. They safe-shot back and forth a few times, and then Jake found his way clear to pocket the only three balls he'd make that night. After that, Willie took command of that 4X8 Brunswick for the next four and a half hours. At 12:50am, he missed the 527th shot - a six-ball in the corner. It tottered at the pocket, but wouldn't fall."

EW
 
In the document referenced in post#10, Dick Hatfield is quoted:

"Bruney safe-broke the balls at 8:00pm that March 18th, Mosconi shot second. They safe-shot back and forth a few times, and then Jake found his way clear to pocket the only three balls he'd make that night. After that, Willie took command of that 4X8 Brunswick for the next four and a half hours. At 12:50am, he missed the 527th shot - a six-ball in the corner. It tottered at the pocket, but wouldn't fall."

EW

Thanks Ed, I read that but in the article he wrote about the account for the National Billiard News he doesn't specifically state that he was there. He did say "A number of Springfielders witnessed this record-breaking performance, including A.Y. "Lefty" Thomas, who made a sketch of the missed shot. Lefty will also authenticate this narrative. About fifty of the witnesses signed an affidavit verifying the high run." Mr. Thomas is on the affidavit but he wasn't exactly quoted about it.

Nonetheless, it seems clear it was under 5 hours, probably with a break or two during the run.

I also found this interesting:

The requirement for exhibition high runs back then was that
the run must have occurred in an announced exhibition on a table
satisfying BCA specifications and been witnessed. The reason for
requiring announcement in advance is so the public, and especially the
press, are notified and have a chance to attend. If the exhibition is
not announced, but is made known only to close friends of the player,
you can imagine that all sorts of questionable records would be
claimed.

I wonder, with the technology of video recording etc., how a new claim to the record would be viewed by the BCA. Let's face it, it is doubtful today that a record straight pool run will be accomplished at an announced exhibition. It is way more likely to occur in practice by someone like a John Schmidt in a recorded session. Besides the public having a chance to attend and witness such a feat, a public exhibition has a certain pressure that doesn't exist from someone running racks in their basement with a camera going.
 
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pdcue...I suppose anything is possible, but to me that seems highly unlikely. That would mean that Mosconi ran a rack every 4 minutes. While the speed pool champions often are in the 1-2 minute range, it is not logical that someone, even Mosconi, could run 35 racks, at a 4 minute per rack pace. That's also not allowing time to rerack either. The time I've heard mentioned is closer to 3.5 hours, at which point he quit and went to dinner.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Well, perhaps you could explain why in "Willie's Game" page 167, he
describes the time as 2 hours and 10 minuets - and notes that he missed.

Dale(who thinks that Willie-knows-best)
 
I've heard that 2 hour thing before, including a recent thread here where 2:10:00 was mentioned citing wikipedia. But my question about the time it took is related to the affidavit. Has anyone that signed the document publicly stated how long it took?

Why are you more interested in the recollections of some
random spectator than in the recounting of the person who did it?

Dale
 
Why are you more interested in the recollections of some
random spectator than in the recounting of the person who did it?

Dale

I think to try and understand what really happened, a person has to seek out the recollections of as many people as possible. You cannot approach these types of things with a closed mind and just accept whatever Willie says. He was a very proud man and a very private man.

This was also mentioned in that doc posted in this thread.

"Later in his life, Mosconi, apparently too proud to admit that he
ever missed a shot (admittedly a rare event), started telling people
that he just got tired and put his cue down, and so it is written in
his (auto)biography, "Willie's Game." But it's just not true."


You really need to gather as much info as possible, compare it all and try to piece it together with some common sense and hopefully at the end, you have as accurate representation of what really happened, as is possible.

So while Willie may have known best, you also must remember that there can be underlying agendas that we may not know about, that might lead to some slight skewing of the facts.:smile:
 
I think to try and understand what really happened, a person has to seek out the recollections of as many people as possible. You cannot approach these types of things with a closed mind and just accept whatever Willie says. He was a very proud man and a very private man.

This was also mentioned in that doc posted in this thread.

"Later in his life, Mosconi, apparently too proud to admit that he
ever missed a shot (admittedly a rare event), started telling people
that he just got tired and put his cue down, and so it is written in
his (auto)biography, "Willie's Game." But it's just not true."


You really need to gather as much info as possible, compare it all and try to piece it together with some common sense and hopefully at the end, you have as accurate representation of what really happened, as is possible.

So while Willie may have known best, you also must remember that there can be underlying agendas that we may not know about, that might lead to some slight skewing of the facts.:smile:


Call me what yu will but have been reading about this for years and years.Each time mentioned that it was on a 4x8, I lose interest!! recognizeit as a high run, but that is about it! I have never thought of it as some super human Feat!
 
Call me what yu will but have been reading about this for years and years.Each time mentioned that it was on a 4x8, I lose interest!! recognizeit as a high run, but that is about it! I have never thought of it as some super human Feat!

I'm not all that big on records myself. I mean, they're cool to think about for a bit here and there, but I'll never be one of those "stat guys".:smile: My eyes glaze over everytime I'm within earshot of a couple of dudes talking about what record their favorite team or player has and how that makes them such a better team or player.

One feat records are typically a extraordinary performance where everything was perfect at a given moment in time. All the stars and moons aligned all at once.

If I was practicing banks one day, and happen to be filming it and all the sudden I"m on a run... all the banks are falling, I'm getting shape on them to make them a little easier, I rack them up and break them, make a ball and they all spread wide apart.. and I keep running them and end up with 50 banks in a row. If 50 is now a record, does that now make me the best bank player that ever lived? I hardly think so (but I will milk it for awhile):D I could go on to never get a high run of more then 6 the rest of my life.

As far as Mosconi's record... that's a lot of damn balls any way you look at it. But you're right, the fact that it's on a 8 ft with probably buckets for pockets kind of takes away a bit of the allure to it. I understand that the argument is, that on a smaller table it's a little more congested, but for a player of his caliber, he knows all about gently knocking balls open. If that was done on a 9 ft table with normal size pockets, not buckets, then it means more to me.

But in the end, it's still just a snapshot in time where everything came together. I wonder how many balls he missed where they got hit into the rail 4 feet away and still went in. Or how many jiggled in the pocket before dropping? Or how many where the cueball got away from him but still ended up magically getting open for another shot?

It's a great feat, there's no doubt about it. He was a great straight pool player so if there's anyone that deserves it or you would expect it from, it would be him. But his legacy is defined by his whole career, not one day where everything came together.

I think of records like Brett Farve's, for most games started. Once you get a record going, they'll throw you in no matter what, just so you can keep the record going. Might be for 1 series, but hey... got to keep that record going.

Speaking of records in pool.... I wonder where I stand in a few of these categories......

1. Most changes of a grip or stroke over a 30 year period (in fact I just changed it again a few days ago):smile:

2. Most time spent doing pool related projects in front of a computer

3. Most consecutive years of disappointing one's self at their progress made in their overall game (I think I just broke my streak recently, since I came off a 12 year layoff, sucked for about a year, but have picked it up a bit now)

4. Most balls hit without using centerball:D
 
I'm not all that big on records myself. I mean, they're cool to think about for a bit here and there, but I'll never be one of those "stat guys".:smile: My eyes glaze over everytime I'm within earshot of a couple of dudes talking about what record their favorite team or player has and how that makes them such a better team or player.

One feat records are typically a extraordinary performance where everything was perfect at a given moment in time. All the stars and moons aligned all at once.

If I was practicing banks one day, and happen to be filming it and all the sudden I"m on a run... all the banks are falling, I'm getting shape on them to make them a little easier, I rack them up and break them, make a ball and they all spread wide apart.. and I keep running them and end up with 50 banks in a row. If 50 is now a record, does that now make me the best bank player that ever lived? I hardly think so (but I will milk it for awhile):D I could go on to never get a high run of more then 6 the rest of my life.

As far as Mosconi's record... that's a lot of damn balls any way you look at it. But you're right, the fact that it's on a 8 ft with probably buckets for pockets kind of takes away a bit of the allure to it. I understand that the argument is, that on a smaller table it's a little more congested, but for a player of his caliber, he knows all about gently knocking balls open. If that was done on a 9 ft table with normal size pockets, not buckets, then it means more to me.

But in the end, it's still just a snapshot in time where everything came together. I wonder how many balls he missed where they got hit into the rail 4 feet away and still went in. Or how many jiggled in the pocket before dropping? Or how many where the cueball got away from him but still ended up magically getting open for another shot?

It's a great feat, there's no doubt about it. He was a great straight pool player so if there's anyone that deserves it or you would expect it from, it would be him. But his legacy is defined by his whole career, not one day where everything came together.

I think of records like Brett Farve's, for most games started. Once you get a record going, they'll throw you in no matter what, just so you can keep the record going. Might be for 1 series, but hey... got to keep that record going.

Speaking of records in pool.... I wonder where I stand in a few of these categories......

1. Most changes of a grip or stroke over a 30 year period (in fact I just changed it again a few days ago):smile:

2. Most time spent doing pool related projects in front of a computer

3. Most consecutive years of disappointing one's self at their progress made in their overall game (I think I just broke my streak recently, since I came off a 12 year layoff, sucked for about a year, but have picked it up a bit now)

4. Most balls hit without using centerball:D

Most ball hit without using center ball??? LMAO!!! now there is one that will confuse the panel for years to come. LMAO!!!
 
I think to try and understand what really happened, a person has to seek out the recollections of as many people as possible. You cannot approach these types of things with a closed mind and just accept whatever Willie says. He was a very proud man and a very private man.

This was also mentioned in that doc posted in this thread.

"Later in his life, Mosconi, apparently too proud to admit that he
ever missed a shot (admittedly a rare event), started telling people
that he just got tired and put his cue down, and so it is written in
his (auto)biography, "Willie's Game." But it's just not true."


You really need to gather as much info as possible, compare it all and try to piece it together with some common sense and hopefully at the end, you have as accurate representation of what really happened, as is possible.

So while Willie may have known best, you also must remember that there can be underlying agendas that we may not know about, that might lead to some slight skewing of the facts.:smile:

Well, we must regrettably give you a grade of "F" in historical technique.
One only relies on secondary sources when original material is not
available.

Your acceptance of the ststement you quote is perhaps, a perfect example
of why. In "Willie's Game", Mosconi does absolutely NOT claim to have quit
without missing. In fact, he states clearly that he missed
"a difficult cut shot" and adds "...by that time I was weary".

Dale(did I mention "Willie's Game" - page 167?)
 
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