Mosconi Cup Unpicked Players Bail Out

[BRussell]

I encourage everyone to listen to last week's ABR with Oscar, where he first acknowledges that he isn't going to Blackpool (he says London). At first, he says "I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but... who cares." He then says that, despite the fact that there was an agreement among the team and Matchroom for all of them to go, he decided to back out because of 1) his pride and ego, 2) he didn't want to take a cut of the winnings, 3) he didn't want to be a waterboy for the rest of the team, and 4) his girlfriend's birthday.

I think it's fair to say that the reasons he gives are not the most flattering to himself, but he sure is honest to admit those were his motivations, I'll give him that.

Right after that he goes on to predict that the US team will lose the match to Europe. Some flaming, blazing bridges in that interview.

 

[watchez]

I was with Mark Wilson for 3 hours the day after he was notified by two of their players that they were not going to go to England. All we talked about was the Mosconi Cup and he told me several things that are not public knowledge. But not one time did he bring up the topic of any non chosen player breaking their word. I didn't question him on it cause I specifically wanted to see if he brought up the subject.

Mark is doing great things for pool. Threads like this simply try to diminish them with people making their unfactual conjectures. People saying they know things they really don't have a clue about. Try supporting him as much as some of you try to tear him down and pool might get somewhere.

Oscar is a good friend of mine. He didn't make his decision not to go in haste. He thought it out and made his decision. I wish he was going for the experience but fully understand why he chose not to. There is no one in pool that is more above board than Oscar. The pool world needs 500 Oscar Dominguez. People coming on here and making comments about him that you wouldn't have the guts to say to him man to man are simply weak. Keep trying to tear down a player of his caliber both on and off the table and he might just say 'F it' and move on in life. That would be a true loss for American pool.

And kudos to Justin Bergman for joining the discussion. He ain't scared and will show it in England as well. He isn't a kid anymore but this 'kid' has ice water in his veins. Has since I have know him when he was 12 years old. The whole world will get to see it.

 

[JoeyA]

I was with Mark Wilson for 3 hours the day after he was notified by two of their players that they were not going to go to England. All we talked about was the Mosconi Cup and he told me several things that are not public knowledge. But not one time did he bring up the topic of any non chosen player breaking their word. I didn't question him on it cause I specifically wanted to see if he brought up the subject.

Mark is doing great things for pool. Threads like this simply try to diminish them with people making their unfactual conjectures. People saying they know things they really don't have a clue about. Try supporting him as much as some of you try to tear him down and pool might get somewhere.

Oscar is a good friend of mine. He didn't make his decision not to go in haste. He thought it out and made his decision. I wish he was going for the experience but fully understand why he chose not to. There is no one in pool that is more above board than Oscar. The pool world needs 500 Oscar Dominguez. People coming on here and making comments about him that you wouldn't have the guts to say to him man to man are simply weak. Keep trying to tear down a player of his caliber both on and off the table and he might just say 'F it' and move on in life. That would be a true loss for American pool.

And kudos to Justin Bergman for joining the discussion. He ain't scared and will show it in England as well. He isn't a kid anymore but this 'kid' has ice water in his veins. Has since I have know him when he was 12 years old. The whole world will get to see it.

That's worth repeating.
JoeyA

 

[7forlife]

The 3 that were not selected had a shot at seeing front row what it's like dealing with the Euros and they declined? Those 3 would move to the very back of the line next year regardless of the selection criteria.....

Seasoning doesn't have to be directly in the fire.. It can just be from being in the oven....

Chris

before reading any further this so to be my exact view. If they do not have anything pressing to do then they should go, this trip should not be about money at this point. And of all the people SHUFF, he knows what it's was like, and to the person who said that Europe don't need the support well he's clueless cause that crowd is their extra player and that is huge.

To me it shows where the mindset of the people are and why pool is where it is in this country. On a side note, I would offer the spot to another 3 players that the Team feel is a significant character to have in their corner. Or hell take the last 3 captains, take Varner, Archer and X, someone to work like a scout for the team and point out what they see from up in the stands, listen in on the commentary and hear what is being said about the player. This is about winning... right?

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I encourage everyone to listen to last week's ABR with Oscar, where he first acknowledges that he isn't going to Blackpool (he says London). At first, he says "I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but... who cares." He then says that, despite the fact that there was an agreement among the team and Matchroom for all of them to go, he decided to back out because of 1) his pride and ego, 2) he didn't want to take a cut of the winnings, 3) he didn't want to be a waterboy for the rest of the team, and 4) his girlfriend's birthday.

I think it's fair to say that the reasons he gives are not the most flattering to himself, but he sure is honest to admit those were his motivations, I'll give him that.

Right after that he goes on to predict that the US team will lose the match to Europe. Some flaming, blazing bridges in that interview.

ABR radio says it at the 35 minute mark he says they agreed to give 10% minimum and 20% if they win!!!

He also "Never" said anything about agreeing to travel to Blackpool! He "only" gave permission to cut the 3 that stayed home or missed the cut a portion of the winnings as described above.

Your description is not accurate regarding what exactly was agreed to! Giving money is much different from traveling and accepting charity from the players performing.

KD

 

[Ky Boy]

Nothing like a thread that brings out those who act like no one knows what they know.

But if you only knew what I knew you wouldn't say that or do that.

The special people who are always in the know when no one else is or will be. The people who promise the rest of the world all will be ok if you would just listen to ME because I know something you don't.

But what do I know, tsk tsk tsk...I can't tell you. Otherwise, we'd both be in the know and then that would make me less important cause more people would now be in the know!

Ya know?!

 

[Johnnyt]

Every player on both teams can runout like water on an open table. The break, no bonehead mistakes, and holding it together at all times are the key to winning the cup. We've all saw the 5 members play like monsters and once in awhile play like "B" players. Depends who shows up, the monster or the "B" player.

PS:When I heard Oscar on ABR I figured he was going in another direction other than player now. Oscar is at the top of the list of good guys and honesty and it's a shame that he had to go through this. He belongs on the team a lot more than Mr. 400. I just can't agree with 400 being on the team. Johnnyt

 

[BRussell]

35 minute mark he says they agreed to give 10% minimum and 20% if they win!!!

He also "Never" said anything about agreeing to travel to Blackpool! He "only" gave permission to cut the 3 that stayed home or missed the cut a portion of the winnings as described above.

Your description is not accurate regarding what exactly was agreed to! Giving money is much different from traveling and accepting charity from the players performing.

KD

I think that's picking nits. They set up a plan whereby the cut players would have their expenses paid by Matchroom to travel with the team, and get 10-20% of the winnings. Mark Wilson has been saying all year that all 8 would go to England.

In the press release announcing the team, they announced that the other players would be traveling with them, and had special coach titles for the three of them:

Commented Mark Wilson, “Despite having to name the five playing members we are still eight strong and are a family pushing for the ultimate goal. I sincerely could have drawn the names at random and been well pleased, proud, and willing to put it all on the line.

Yeah, some family.

 

[dnschmidt]

Possibly could it be that they don't want to be associated with a team they fully expect to get pounded into the floor by the Europeans? Sort of an "avoid the stench" scenario.

 

[cleary]

It doesn't matter too much, though. I really believe this will be the last Mosconi Cup. Matchroom Sport and Skybox won't waste their money and effort on USA. If the players don't care, neither do it. Life goes on . . .

Matchroom Sports/skysports care about making money. They're not taking a loss or doing this to benefit the players. They sell ad space and pays for the production with left over profit. They want a solid production, high level pool, emotion and hopefully a close score. If the numbers are good, they'll keep doing it and it's really as simple as that. Three people who decided to not come watch in person is totally insignificant to them.

 

[The Saw]

I was with Mark Wilson for 3 hours the day after he was notified by two of their players that they were not going to go to England. All we talked about was the Mosconi Cup and he told me several things that are not public knowledge. But not one time did he bring up the topic of any non chosen player breaking their word. I didn't question him on it cause I specifically wanted to see if he brought up the subject.

Mark is doing great things for pool. Threads like this simply try to diminish them with people making their unfactual conjectures. People saying they know things they really don't have a clue about. Try supporting him as much as some of you try to tear him down and pool might get somewhere.

Oscar is a good friend of mine. He didn't make his decision not to go in haste. He thought it out and made his decision. I wish he was going for the experience but fully understand why he chose not to. There is no one in pool that is more above board than Oscar. The pool world needs 500 Oscar Dominguez. People coming on here and making comments about him that you wouldn't have the guts to say to him man to man are simply weak. Keep trying to tear down a player of his caliber both on and off the table and he might just say 'F it' and move on in life. That would be a true loss for American pool.

And kudos to Justin Bergman for joining the discussion. He ain't scared and will show it in England as well. He isn't a kid anymore but this 'kid' has ice water in his veins. Has since I have know him when he was 12 years old. The whole world will get to see it.

Teach, Watchez, teach.

 

[leto1776]

Matchroom Sports/skysports care about making money. They're not taking a loss or doing this to benefit the players. They sell ad space and pays for the production with left over profit. They want a solid production, high level pool, emotion and hopefully a close score. If the numbers are good, they'll keep doing it and it's really as simple as that. Three people who decided to not come watch in person is totally insignificant to them.

this in a nutshell. Matchroom is about making money. If the MC keeps making money, they'll keep producing it. If it starts losing money, I have no doubt in my mind they'll drop it in an instant and come up with something else to promote. Three guys staying home who aren't even playing? Probably not even a blip on the radar.

 

[PINKLADY]

has no one else besides WATCHEZ picked up the phone and called Mark Wilson? or any one of the 8?

at least Justin chimed-in (thank you Justin). his involvement w/ AZB will absolutely help prepare him for Blackpool's crowd!

the 3 apparently had their respective reasons for breaking the Agreement from 6 months ago. (respective, not respectable - don't put words in my mouth!) having said that, we saw several EUR pros last Mosconi (who didn't make the cut), and they were sitting in the stands behind Team EUR - cheering....

the only ones i remember for Team USA, were Janette Lee & Nick Varner. but they were getting awards. there weren't more than 50 "fans" (players & wives included) supporting our team, on our own turf. a few extra bodies in Blackpool wouldn't hurt.

 

[7forlife]

They did not opt out, they had that done for them by being told they were not on the team.

Expecting them to show up and shake red white and blue pom poms and give high fives to the players that "did" actually make the team is absurd and TBH highly disrespectful to those three. They are professional pool players, not cheerleaders and not coaches and they would be doing nothing more then acting like a fan or the wife of a player rooting them on from the bleachers and they bloody well know it.

Anyone with any self respect would have passed on this and simply wished the team the best of luck. It would have been a weird and uncomfortable situation for "everyone" including the 5 "actual" team members.

country before pride, it's about the man next to me, God Corps Country.
based on what you are saying they should not take this valuable opportunity to travel "for their country" because they are not the "5 on the court".
based on what you are saying the 4 "picked players" who are not playing at the time are seen as cheerleaders, fans or wife's when they root for the player at the table. Perhaps they should stay in their rooms or the practice room rather than cheer on the fellow comrade?

I don't know the reason that the guys opt out of going "SPECIALLY BRANDON" (and to me it's odd that they all can't make it but any way) I can just hope that it's nothing serious and it's not pride cause you know what, Pride is what's at stake come next week, so who the hell are these guys. We are all affected by the outcome of that match weather you want to see it/admit it/accept it or not.

WOW

 

[StuartTKelley]

The 3 that were not selected had a shot at seeing front row what it's like dealing with the Euros and they declined? Those 3 would move to the very back of the line next year regardless of the selection criteria.....

Seasoning doesn't have to be directly in the fire.. It can just be from being in the oven....

Chris

Yeah, they could have made this as a political move while keeping their mouth shut about egos and opinions of whether or not they should be on the team or not. They didn't have to tell people what they actually thought, looked like all american sportsman by being there in a supporting role in spite of not playing, and got paid to watch some amazing pool. Sounds like a not so difficult pill to swallow to me. And at their level I think they are all amazing and I don't think that was part of the selection process, ability alone. I'm sure there are other many other factors that come into making that decision but I don't know anything, just my opinion.

 

[Willi Makaball]

It seems after all that Mark had done to bring this group together, had meetings with the Navy Sea teams to build them as a team and then setting the 3 aside would make the players feel they had wasted there time and were lead on.
I meet this group early on and all are great players and at the time they seemed very excited. But being told your a advisor or team mentor could have come across wrong.
What I am concerned about is What if one player gets sick or injured, were are we then?
Also the selection process seems odd, Why don't they use play-offs to select the best, there are a few players out there that could make it but were not given the chance. so a performance based selection should be used ,IMO.

 

[Celophanewrap]

Or hell take the last 3 captains, take Varner, Archer and X, someone to work like a scout for the team and point out what they see from up in the stands, listen in on the commentary and hear what is being said about the player. This is about winning... right?

When I first started to read this thread I thought about this very thing. If those three don't want to go, or can't or whatever, why not invite a couple of veteran players, retired or semi-retired that had been there before because, to me, the most glaring thing that this team lacks is experience. I thought of maybe Allan Hopkins, Nick Varner, Mike Massey, Tony Robles, Perhaps our own Jay Helfert, or CJ. But then I had another thought, in most sports and in many walks of life current participants honor and respect those who came before. The former greats that paved the way, we learn from them, we gratefully take their advice and follow their example, we honor them and their battles. I have found that's not always the case in American Pool. I don't know any of the MC Team and with the exception of SVB, I have rarely see any of them actually play, would they benefit from having the perspective of that experience with them. And if they would, would any of the experienced guys (or ladies?) consent to go and be a part of it.? Additional knowledgeable eyes scouting from the seats could be a valuable tool to have.

 

[xplor]

Some of you may remember getting on the bus for an away game knowing the best you could hope for is to come home with no splinters in your ass. It was a small sacrifice for the team.

 

[JAM]

Matchroom Sports/skysports care about making money. They're not taking a loss or doing this to benefit the players. They sell ad space and pays for the production with left over profit. They want a solid production, high level pool, emotion and hopefully a close score. If the numbers are good, they'll keep doing it and it's really as simple as that. Three people who decided to not come watch in person is totally insignificant to them.

Actually, making money is precisely my point. Matchroom and Skysports may not be interested a competition like this anymore. Matchrom has expended funds to Team USA, as well as Team Europe, to be all that they can be. If the players themselves are not interested, what good is it to continue the Mosconi Cup? This new team concept for Team USA was the brainchild of somebody at Matchroom Sport. It will be interesting to see how well they perform in Blackpool. If it's a whitewash, it could mean the end of this competition. It won't be exciting for sponsors and/or the viewing audience to see a team get their butts kicked.

You know, like the Redskins do each weekend.

 

[cleary]

Some of you may remember getting on the bus for an away game knowing the best you could hope for is to come home with no splinters in your ass. It was a small sacrifice for the team.

I tried out for the basketball team my freshman year of high school. I was one of the last cuts but sadly didn't make the team. They didn't think I was good enough to be part of the team, so I wasn't part of the team. I guess I could have been the water boy but I chose to do something else with my time.