Masters chalk
. He hit it slow with a high ball, cueball gets some backspin and slides off course. Cutting away from the pocket. C'mon now
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Mosconi cup
- Thread starter JCL
- Start date
. He hit it slow with a high ball, cueball gets some backspin and slides off course. Cutting away from the pocket. C'mon now
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
Had he not over run that shape by a couple of feet he could have shot that ball in without a skid. He lost the match due to playing errors not equipment malfunction.
First of all, bravo to the U.S. team, they did as best as can be expected given the circumstance. Since 2006, Europe has the U.S. beat 12-3 by my count.
Europe simply has more tournament playing talent right now and for the foreseeable future. Do not expect the U.S. to be competitive / gain parity for at least the next 8-10 years contingent upon the U.S. starting today to fix the issues. Europe could have dropped 3 of their players on their roster, and immediately replaced them with players who did not qualify that are still better than most on the U.S. side.
****
I been wondering WHY is this the case?
The U.S. has two problems, one is that currently they are not fielding the best possible team based on existing talent and there's many reason for this which is directly related to why pool is in decline in the US, and secondly that decline is limiting the availability of new talent. Fielding the best possible team at the moment still won't resolve lagging behind the EU, but it would make more of these cups closer.
Regarding the first problem, it's the lack of money in the game for U.S players. The lack of money means that those able to make a living from pool are fewer because the "living wage" money is only had at the elite levels of professional pool. Being pro is not enough, you must be elite pro. (just look at the earnings list, factor in expenses, taxes to see what is left and it becomes clear) This all has to be weighed against your effort. To maintain that level of play to be competitive is a full-time for pros, full-life commitment for elite pro level players. We have seen incredible talents of this game walk away, in their prime years...or become part time players.
As for the second problem, I could write a novel on all the factors for that, but there's plenty of dozen-page long threads over the last 20 years on this forum that discuss the decline of pool in America. Rather, better to point out what happened in Europe.
Despite there not being much money in Europe either, they maintained pool as a dignified and professional sport. Even if not the most popular there, or with much money. Tournaments were held in nice venues. Players were held to certain standards. Matches got airtime on television. Guys, Euro Tour prize money was not that good...
While in the USA we were in a modern golden-age of pool talent with our pros in the 1990's ...the European pool youth saw this, looked up to it, inspired by it and dreamed of being champions. Their tournaments were there, they have something to look forward to. How did they look up to this? You have to be able to see something to look up to it. They saw pro pool, while our youth did not due to a near total television blackout of the sport. There are many other factors.
Anyway, I suspect today the economic culture of the EU play a role in allowing for more pool players to survive while playing the game they do. It is more feasible for them to play the game professionally and full time, even if they are not making a big living from it. You can be a lower income person in Europe and survive than you can in the U.S.. At least in Europe you can be poor and go to the doctor. A pool player here has no health care. This and many other social economic factors makes pool a non-option for Americans. American pool players have to decide between pool and a family. Can't support a family on pool. Few will find a wife who can bring in enough support to make up for it. Tough life. Mom working to pay the bills, while pool pro dad is on the road all the time slugging it out in tournaments for small winnings. My guess is, not a lot of takers for that lifestyle. Not exactly a high demand thing. Alternatively, you can do the non-family thing, and still struggle to survive.
On the international level, it pays the same for EU players as it does for US players....EU players come to US tournaments. US players rarely go to EU tournaments.
It comes down to this....EU players for various reason can get by with whatever prize money is available in pool both locally and internationally and via sponsorships. US players cannot. I say cannot, instead of will not because they love the game just as much and already have sacrificed so much. US players need higher prize money availability and it being spread more, that is, to reach a little further down the ranks.
Europe simply has more tournament playing talent right now and for the foreseeable future. Do not expect the U.S. to be competitive / gain parity for at least the next 8-10 years contingent upon the U.S. starting today to fix the issues. Europe could have dropped 3 of their players on their roster, and immediately replaced them with players who did not qualify that are still better than most on the U.S. side.
****
I been wondering WHY is this the case?
The U.S. has two problems, one is that currently they are not fielding the best possible team based on existing talent and there's many reason for this which is directly related to why pool is in decline in the US, and secondly that decline is limiting the availability of new talent. Fielding the best possible team at the moment still won't resolve lagging behind the EU, but it would make more of these cups closer.
Regarding the first problem, it's the lack of money in the game for U.S players. The lack of money means that those able to make a living from pool are fewer because the "living wage" money is only had at the elite levels of professional pool. Being pro is not enough, you must be elite pro. (just look at the earnings list, factor in expenses, taxes to see what is left and it becomes clear) This all has to be weighed against your effort. To maintain that level of play to be competitive is a full-time for pros, full-life commitment for elite pro level players. We have seen incredible talents of this game walk away, in their prime years...or become part time players.
As for the second problem, I could write a novel on all the factors for that, but there's plenty of dozen-page long threads over the last 20 years on this forum that discuss the decline of pool in America. Rather, better to point out what happened in Europe.
Despite there not being much money in Europe either, they maintained pool as a dignified and professional sport. Even if not the most popular there, or with much money. Tournaments were held in nice venues. Players were held to certain standards. Matches got airtime on television. Guys, Euro Tour prize money was not that good...
While in the USA we were in a modern golden-age of pool talent with our pros in the 1990's ...the European pool youth saw this, looked up to it, inspired by it and dreamed of being champions. Their tournaments were there, they have something to look forward to. How did they look up to this? You have to be able to see something to look up to it. They saw pro pool, while our youth did not due to a near total television blackout of the sport. There are many other factors.
Anyway, I suspect today the economic culture of the EU play a role in allowing for more pool players to survive while playing the game they do. It is more feasible for them to play the game professionally and full time, even if they are not making a big living from it. You can be a lower income person in Europe and survive than you can in the U.S.. At least in Europe you can be poor and go to the doctor. A pool player here has no health care. This and many other social economic factors makes pool a non-option for Americans. American pool players have to decide between pool and a family. Can't support a family on pool. Few will find a wife who can bring in enough support to make up for it. Tough life. Mom working to pay the bills, while pool pro dad is on the road all the time slugging it out in tournaments for small winnings. My guess is, not a lot of takers for that lifestyle. Not exactly a high demand thing. Alternatively, you can do the non-family thing, and still struggle to survive.
On the international level, it pays the same for EU players as it does for US players....EU players come to US tournaments. US players rarely go to EU tournaments.
It comes down to this....EU players for various reason can get by with whatever prize money is available in pool both locally and internationally and via sponsorships. US players cannot. I say cannot, instead of will not because they love the game just as much and already have sacrificed so much. US players need higher prize money availability and it being spread more, that is, to reach a little further down the ranks.
Some commented on key moments. I not placing any blame here, but Skyler dogging the 5 ball, when up 3-1 was the beginning of the end. He would have been up 4-1 and was a sure thing to win that match, bringing the teams scores even 8-8. Instead, it was 9-7 which is tough spot to be in for a race to 11.
I still think the EU would have won as they are stronger in singles, but it could have gone to the hill.
I still think the EU would have won as they are stronger in singles, but it could have gone to the hill.
I think Dechaine and Shane don't get along at all- so that would be an issue
Shane Wolford is relatively young and has played well in some big tournaments recently
I've been saying for years that for sheer excitement and spectator enjoyment, and for attracting new viewers--all of which we desperately need--the best formats by far are team style events (ala the Mosconi Cup and World Cup of Pool) followed by ring games. Having everyone mic'd up makes them all the better yet.
Amen.
nobody was talking about it in the days we were kicking their ass. Why now?
Are you going to hold a gun to their head?
Strickland was captain in 2001
Steve Davis and ralf souquet both captained Europe in the early days
A bit of history:
That 2001 mosconi, USA won 12-1
It's amazing to think back in 2002. When Europe won it back. after 7 years. It was a big deal back then. Especially what happened the year before. Europe always seemed to be one step behind America. up till around 2006. Although that year was tied, the balance, started shift towards europe.
I remember those days well. Living in the UK, I was only a kid at the time. I watched them all, from 1998 onwards.
USA dominance back then was clear to see. That 12-1 one win was over in 3 days. At one point thay looked unbeatable.as I said it wasn't till 2006 things started to change.
I also remember 2003 in Las vages. first time it was held out side of london.
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I think this will ultimately be the future of pool and will be what attracts the most mainstream viewers, however many that will end up being, but the teams will be from individual countries rather than continents. I think part of the reason Matchroom is waiting is until there are enough countries from enough continents or geographical regions that can field decent teams and have a large enough fan base that would support them. This will presumably happen in time as the sport grows.
I expect that Matchroom will probably start gradually within the next few years, probably starting with a Taiwan (possibly combined with China depending on the politics of whether they want to treat them as the same country or not which is of course a bit touchy) vs Philippines rivalry would be my guess for what is next in line based on competitiveness of the teams and the large or potentially large fan bases. Ultimately over time after there are enough countries from enough different regions that can field good teams and have a large enough fan base they could structure it as a tournament series over the course of the year which eventually leads to a finals.
On the page below, if you clicked on the plus sign beside "Match Schedule" to expand that section, Matchroom was actually doing live scoring for the matches in real time, and then of course they left the final score up for all the completed matches. I was pleasantly surprised myself to see that they were doing this.
Mosconi Cup - Matchroom Pool
The 2024 Mosconi Cup marks a pivotal chapter in the storied rivalry between Team USA and Team Europe as the tournament heads to an exciting new venue: the Caribe Royale in Orlando, Florida. Set to ignite on November 30, this year’s event sees Team USA determined to reclaim the title on home turf...
matchroompool.com
Have you ever seen Oscar play? Have you ever seen Chris Reinhold play? Have you ever seen a previous Mosconi Cup? I get that there is some subjectivity and opinion regarding the play of players, but I can't fathom how anybody familiar with both Chris' and Oscar's play could possibly think Chris would be the better pick between the two. Their abilities are quite noticeably different at any time, but even more so during the Mosconi Cup where Chris would just completely fall apart under the pressure every time. Great guy by all accounts but this one doesn't even seem real close to me.
Same with Joey Tate. He obviously had a good tournament recently, and will likely warrant more serious consideration in the future, but his average game currently lags a decent amount behind Oscar.
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Coos Cues
Coos Cues
Man how the game has changed. You see the buckets on that table? Not sure a shot would ever be missed if you rolled that into a Mosconi cup today.