Mosconi's 526 run POOL TABLE questions
- Thread starter K2Kraze
- Start date
Mr Bond; I'm sure you know the old saying, 'For some for NO explanation is necessary, for others, NO explanation will ever suffice!'
I think that may be case in this situation!
Game, Set & Match Mr. Bond. Well played, well played indeed. I bet you like your Martini's shaken, not stirred
I'm too bored to post a link but on this forum Tom Ferry -oldhasbeen- said he saw the table Mosconi ran his 526 on and it had such large pockets he was surprised Mosconi didn't scratch. The run was during an exhibition, not a tournament.
There is a video interview with Irving Crane - 300 ball runner on a 10' table - and Irving said he preferred tight pockets because it gave him an advantage over his opponent. For him to say that would be an indication there must have been tables with tight pockets.
If the question is whether guys like Mosconi and Crane could compete today, DCC set up a 10' table for their 14.1 challenge a couple years ago. With today's best players gathered there the high run was 117 by Pettman. Nobody came remotely close to 300. If you set up the exact same table Mosconi used I suspect the same thing would happen, nobody would get anywhere near 500.
There is a video interview with Irving Crane - 300 ball runner on a 10' table - and Irving said he preferred tight pockets because it gave him an advantage over his opponent. For him to say that would be an indication there must have been tables with tight pockets.
If the question is whether guys like Mosconi and Crane could compete today, DCC set up a 10' table for their 14.1 challenge a couple years ago. With today's best players gathered there the high run was 117 by Pettman. Nobody came remotely close to 300. If you set up the exact same table Mosconi used I suspect the same thing would happen, nobody would get anywhere near 500.
As a semi-educated guess, George was friends with a family(?), maybe neighbors.
Anyway, there is a woman in Dayton whom he referred to as his 'goddaughter'.
Perhaps he meant her son.
Dale
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Was it a T-rail with leather pockets? Russ may have said it was the table.
When I was in Pickwick (70s?) they had National tables with Anniversary
type pockets.
FWIW - The first Airway was actually in Airway Shopping Center, close to the
current site of the Air Force Museum.
Dale
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NIce post, even better examples of the prowess of the "greats" !!!!
And until you come up with a model, size and date manufactured, your claim that Brunswick did build pool tables with ProCut pockets belong right up there with the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy....all being real
What table model, size, and date of manufacturing?
I have no doubt some table mechanics back in time double or even triple shimmed pockets to tighten them up.
Well then, you shouldn't have to much of a problem identifying the model, size, and year built to back up your claim, unless your claim is like that of God, because you read about him in a book once, so he must be real, but then again, that's based on beliefs, not facts, unless you have something to prove otherwise....not written in a book that you can submit as "fact"
What table was used in this tournament, and did Brunswick sponsor the tournament, or was Brunswick pool tables the table of choice to hold the tournament on. Did Brunswick make the pockets to those dimensions, or did some pool table mechanic make them 4 1/2" because the tournament officials wanted tables with tighter pockets than Brunswick offered at that time, because they wanted the tournament to be more challenging?
It was not a tournament , it was an exhibition.
George told me several times in our years of running together , that Mosconi preferred doing his exhibitions on the Brunswick 4 x 8s and used them every chance he got.
He played mostly to keep the balls in the lower half of the table and pick the rack apart a bit at a time.
Rather than busting them up all over the table.
Part of his shtick was to run 100 balls during the exhibition , and from what I heard, he did it a lot.
Every time one of these threads goes around, a little more , disinformation is put out , but that is not unusual in pool stories.
I have talked to several people who were not at the exhibition but played in the poolroom, frequently.
From what I gathered , the 4x8s were pretty forgiving , but not in the best shape.
There doesn't seem to be any reason for Brunswick to have been involved in the size of the pockets , if they were smaller than normal , it would have been because the owner {I think his name was Bob Haas} had someone shim them up.
Hope this helps.
No,No No
Arguing with a NoItAll
I got a dollar that says they did.
Tournaments have been played on Brunswick tables with 4.5 inch pockets since the late 1880s, if not earlier. This is not a story, but a documented fact.
5+ inch pockets were a fairly recent development.
That said, I will check with Brunswick's historian and see if he can provide any solid info about the pocket size for the 8ft of that era .
Arguing with a NoItAll
With the oversized ball diameter and going that far back in time, I wonder what the official game was that they are talking about -- American 4-ball??I think I have an old ivory set of 4-balls (two red and two white) and they are not that big though...
I had the pleasure of interviewing George Rood (that is the way it is spelled, and if you guys google him, you will also see he was a very highly regarded dog show judge -- in fact he was recognized by the Doberman Pincher Club of America for Lifetime Achievement). I asked him a little about that room and the tables and this is what I go from him. This of course does not prove anything -- it is just another record of what George recalled from when I talked to him, that's all.
I know that for a fact , I have had to put disclaimers in some of my posts saying that I am not sure about a date or a some details.
I know you , like most of us here , just wanted to add what you could to the puzzle.
I hope I didn't sound mean , that was not my intention.
No, I just know my job, as well as all my friends that are in the Antique Brunswick restoration business, who also have told me that they have never restored an Antique Brunswick pool table with 4 1/2" corner pockets, in fact 5" corner pockets and bigger was the norm!
that, I know for sure.....how many antique Brunswick pool tables have you work on sir? With Mr. Bond owning the billiard museum, one would think it wouldn't be to much higher of a problem producing some pictures of an antique pool table to back up his claim...untouched of course I don't think you people realize how T-rails and pocket irons match up, or even how the T-rails are even built, if any of you did, you'd understand the process that Brunswick would have had to go through in order to tighten the pockets to 4 1/2"....in a production process:thumbup:You
so silly..even act like you are smart..working on pool tables aint science,all you do is start sh*t
No, I just know my job, as well as all my friends that are in the Antique Brunswick restoration business, who also have told me that they have never restored an Antique Brunswick pool table with 4 1/2" corner pockets, in fact 5" corner pockets and bigger was the norm!
so silly..even act like you are smart..working on pool tables aint science,all you do is start sh*t