Most Influential Cuemaker of All Time

Ken_4fun

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello -

I met JimmyK a couple weeks ago, and we had a discussion about cuemakers. He stated that the most influential cuemaker of all time was Ernie at Ginacue. While I think is Ernie is a great cuemaker, and I do like his cues, he isnt nearly as influential as others.

Jimmy was a little shocked at my statement, he asked, who I thought was?

Kersenbrock, I replied. In fact, he is so far the most influential, I dont even know who would be second. An amazing amount of cuemakers are using a 3/8 -10 or similiar pin, and frankly he should be getting a percentage from every cuemaker using that pin...(okay I am kinda kidding on that point, but just a little).

Jimmy and I agreed to disagree. But what are your thoughts and why? Please dont share if you cant follow up on a why. :angry:

Ken ;)
 
Gene Balner...a political refugee and excellent wood craftsman who fled to the USA and began making cues still admired as collectable. That would be "Palmer". He brought us the "fancy cue" for the everyman...
 
It would have to got to whoever made the first two piece cue that played as well as a one piece cue.
That is the begining of all modern cues. Otherwise we would all still be playing with one piece cues.
Neil
 
Ken_4fun said:
Hello -

I met JimmyK a couple weeks ago, and we had a discussion about cuemakers. He stated that the most influential cuemaker of all time was Ernie at Ginacue. While I think is Ernie is a great cuemaker, and I do like his cues, he isnt nearly as influential as others.

Jimmy was a little shocked at my statement, he asked, who I thought was?

Kersenbrock, I replied. In fact, he is so far the most influential, I dont even know who would be second. An amazing amount of cuemakers are using a 3/8 -10 or similiar pin, and frankly he should be getting a percentage from every cuemaker using that pin...(okay I am kinda kidding on that point, but just a little).

Jimmy and I agreed to disagree. But what are your thoughts and why? Please dont share if you cant follow up on a why. :angry:

Ken ;)
Click to expand...

DPK started the compound taper butts too iirc.
He also invented the saw taper machine.
 
Not just one. I think many people or makers have been influenced at 1 point or another by several. Everyone has a mentor so to speak. Some might be well known makers that hit the mainstream and are famous in their styles, while others were influenced locally by some one building for hobby.
I think each of the quality makers out their deserve this title as they all have influenced or created something to benefit us all.
Just my 2 cents......
Jim Lee
 
Ken_4fun said:
Hello -

I met JimmyK a couple weeks ago, and we had a discussion about cuemakers. He stated that the most influential cuemaker of all time was Ernie at Ginacue. While I think is Ernie is a great cuemaker, and I do like his cues, he isnt nearly as influential as others.

Jimmy was a little shocked at my statement, he asked, who I thought was?

Kersenbrock, I replied. In fact, he is so far the most influential, I dont even know who would be second. An amazing amount of cuemakers are using a 3/8 -10 or similiar pin, and frankly he should be getting a percentage from every cuemaker using that pin...(okay I am kinda kidding on that point, but just a little).

Jimmy and I agreed to disagree. But what are your thoughts and why? Please dont share if you cant follow up on a why. :angry:

Ken ;)
Click to expand...
You are wrong about Ginacue. He practically invented the high end cue market. He taught the other cue makers there was a real business being a cue maker when other were starving trying to build cues. I paid $600.00 for a Ginacue at a time you could get a nice cue from Joss for $120.00 with two shafts. He changed the whole idea of being a cue maker. Ginacues were also a slimmer cue when many others were like clubs. He defiantly changed cues as we knew them.
 
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Herman Rambow then Gus Szamboti. Early American Cuemakers. Their works have stood the test of time and they have influenced countless cuemakers.
 
One of these two guys (from the International Cuemakers Hall of Fame):

Herman Rambow: Inducted 2004
Born in 1880, Rambow worked off and on for Brunswick from the time he was 14 until 1950. He started out as a mail boy and turned Ivory Balls, working his way up. Rambow built cues all the way up to his passing away in 1967. Rambow is given credit with inventing the piloted joint. It had the screw in the butt and a brass insert with wood pilot tenon similar to the stainless steel jointed cues we see today. Rambow mainly used brass joints. Rambow had a lot of equipment that he built himself. He even had a homemade three jaw chuck that was completely made out of wood. Almost everything on his lathe was made out of wood. His cues normally did not have a rubber bumper and often had a thin ivory ring around the bottom above the short plastic butt plate. This ring is now referred to as the Rambow ring. It was a Rambow that Willie Mosconi ran his record 526 balls in a row with in 1956. In 1968 Herman Rambow was the first cuemaker ever inducted into the Billiard Congress of America’s Hall of Fame.

Harvey Martin: Inducted 2004
Martin started making cues in the 1920’s. Like Rambow and Britner he also turned Ivory Billiard balls earlier in his career. For decades more world champions played with Rambows and Martins than any other cues. While Rambows were ruling the east coast Harvey Martins were the favorite among the west coast players. He popularized the 3/8" wood to wood flat faced joint. Martin did not do inlay work as he felt it weakened the cue. He would watch a customer play and try to build the cue to fit the customer's style. You will often find Martin cues with several shafts. He would make shafts for the different type of game and equipment the player would play on. He continued building cues until 1984. That is six decades of his labor of love.

I met Rambow in 1964 when I went to pick up my $50 cue (with two shafts). He was then working for an outfit named Keefe and Hamer in downtown Chicago, 17 North Wabash. Normally, they kept him in the back room turning out cues, but when I went to pick up my finished cue the gatekeepers must have been out to lunch and Rambow waited on me. He took me back to his large workroom and just talked talked talked - I can see why the owners wanted to keep him away from customers, he loved to talk too much. He was quite old then - 84, if he was born in 1880. I was 16 then and spending my stock boy/paper boy earnings.

I wish I could remember all he told me. As for checking a cue's straightness, don't roll it on the table, just sight it like a rifle and turn the cue as you do it - that was how he did it. To keep the shaft smooth, use steel wool (I'm sure he meant the softest kind). Beyond that, all I remember is how the champions played with his cue (he mentioned Mosconi and Hoppe, I'm sure) and how his eyesight was still very sharp and he could make the thinnest cut shots. Oh, I think he showed me a cue he was repairing - the name on it was P.K. Wrigley, the chewing gum magnate. He seemed like a really nice old guy. I knew I was talking to a legend and felt pretty honored that he spent so much time with me. After all, this guy made Mosconi's cues. I can't remember what ended the monologue - probably the owners came back and he had to get back to work. How I'd love to do it again.
 
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Ken_4fun said:
I thought was?

Kersenbrock, I replied. In fact, he is so far the most influential, I dont even know who would be second. An amazing amount of cuemakers are using a 3/8 -10 or similiar pin, and frankly he should be getting a percentage from every cuemaker using that pin...(okay I am kinda kidding on that point, but just a little).
Click to expand...

I don't believe that Kersenbrock introduced that pin size. I believe that McDermott and Bill Stroud both had big pin 3/8ths into wood prior to Kersenbrock. And IIRC, McDermott was using th3 3/8ths-10. Someone measured a 3/8th-12 wood screw wrong and came up with a 3/8ths-11, which is what South West has.

fred
 
Cornerman said:
I don't believe that Kersenbrock introduced that pin size. I believe that McDermott and Bill Stroud both had big pin 3/8ths into wood prior to Kersenbrock. And IIRC, McDermott was using th3 3/8ths-10. Someone measured a 3/8th-12 wood screw wrong and came up with a 3/8ths-11, which is what South West has.

fred
Click to expand...

I think that is a Bill Stroud story. He mistakenly copying a Martin screw and made it 3/8 x 10.
 
JoeyInCali said:
DPK started the compound taper butts too iirc.
Click to expand...
Hmmm... I'm thinking the parabolic taper, but not the compound taper. I could be wrong.
He also invented the saw taper machine.
Click to expand...
The first saw taper machine was built by Jerry Franklin and David Kersenbrock in the South West shop. The idea was from something that David saw in a wood working magazine. But, the two made it together. And Jerry was definitely the more mechanical of the two.

The first piece of wood that went through that first saw machine is still at South West. So, IMO, it would be more correct to say that the first saw machine was built by South West Cues.

Fred
 
macguy said:
I think that is a Bill Stroud story. He mistakenly copying a Martin screw and made it 3/8 x 10.
Click to expand...
I won't argue particulars, but for sure a 3/8ths-12 already exists as a screw thread. If Martin was using a standard screw, then the story still holds true and leads one to believe that the big pin was already in use prior to Kersenbrock.

Fred
 
Cornerman said:
I won't argue particulars, but for sure a 3/8ths-12 already exists as a screw thread. If Martin was using a standard screw, then the story still holds true and leads one to believe that the big pin was already in use prior to Kersenbrock.

Fred
Click to expand...

All of the Martins I have seen had the big pin.
 
Ken_4fun said:
Hello -

I met JimmyK a couple weeks ago, and we had a discussion about cuemakers. He stated that the most influential cuemaker of all time was Ernie at Ginacue. While I think is Ernie is a great cuemaker, and I do like his cues, he isnt nearly as influential as others.

Jimmy was a little shocked at my statement, he asked, who I thought was?

Kersenbrock, I replied. In fact, he is so far the most influential, I dont even know who would be second. An amazing amount of cuemakers are using a 3/8 -10 or similiar pin, and frankly he should be getting a percentage from every cuemaker using that pin...(okay I am kinda kidding on that point, but just a little).

Jimmy and I agreed to disagree. But what are your thoughts and why? Please dont share if you cant follow up on a why. :angry:

Ken ;)
Click to expand...

Ken I hope you have view my post/thread on Martin's
CueMaker Tree. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=1812512
 
This is topic makes for great conversation. And when Ken said Kersenbrock, I thought his was a very interesting pick. I can't disagree. David has contributed tons to the art of cuemaking.

One thing I want to add, when I made my statement, I was actually talking about living cuemakers. Ernie has been an absolute pioneer for over forty years and is actually putting a plan together for the 50th anniversary cue.

Unbelievable :shocked2: :shocked2:

Everyone has thier own opinion and this is just mine.................

Jim Kissinger
 
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macguy said:
You are wrong about Ginacue. He practically invented the high end cue market. He taught the other cue makers there was a real business being a cue maker when other were starving trying to build cues. I paid $600.00 for a Ginacue at a time you could get a nice cue from Joss for $120.00 with two shafts. He changed the whole idea of being a cue maker. Ginacues were also a slimmer cue when many others were like clubs. He defiantly changed cues as we knew them.
Click to expand...

That's right. Ernie has always been the innovator, he has lead the way and really, in so many ways, he still does.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Jimmyrayk said:
This is topic makes for great conversation. And when Ken said Kershenbrock, I thought his was a very interesting pick. I can't disagree. David has contributed tons to the art of cuemaking.

One thing I want to add, when I made my statement, I was actually talking about living cuemakers. Ernie has been an absolute pioneer for over forty years and is actually putting a plan together for the 50th anniversary cue.

Unbelievable :shocked2: :shocked2:

Everyone has thier own opion and this is just mine.................

Jim Kissinger
Click to expand...

Jim

To have created what is in the top 3 collectible cues of all time, the Silver Gina, in the 60s with 5 years experience (less) as a cue maker, to have turned down offers for over 40 years as the cue's value rose with Gina's reputation, until it has a present value certainly over $225,000 (I know Ernie wouldn't take that) to have created it, and still hold it, that's such a rare score for the artist, almost every very high end collectible in any venue ends up with collectors or dealers. Ernie has enhanced the value of the Silver Gina with over 40 years of fierce quality control, innovation and pride. You really have to hand it to the guy.

Kevin
 
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