Moves And Other Sharking Techniques at DCC

12squared said:
Jay, PM sent (2 parts)
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I got your PM's and they didn't hold water either. You're trying to rewrite history for a match you played ten years ago. No one sharked you, except yourself. The only part of your story that was correct is that I was the TD for that event, and you did play Mike Massey.

I didn't even know if you won or lost that match, and frankly don't care.
 
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I think if you play alot in late night bars you will toughen up your mental game because there is so much to shark you there if you let it.I think playing in a poolhall is a walk in the park regardless of some little moves after playing in some roadhouse bars.I actually enjoy playing a ring game with sharking allowed,its alot of fun and helps your mental game. :smile:
 
At a Glass City Open held in Toledo, OH -- I can't remember the year, maybe 2004 -- Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant was getting ready to play a money rounds match against Keith "Earthquake" McCready.

Before the match, McCready was knocking balls around on their designated table, trying to get warmed up. He arrived 20 minutes or so before the match. Soon thereafter, Charlie made his presence known and asked if he could warm up too. Everything seemed normal, as most tournaments go. There were some polite exchanges made between the two. :p

The match progresses, and it was hard fought. Keith was warping balls in, and Charlie was breaking like a cannon, making 4 and 5 balls on the break sometimes. :eek:

If memory serves me right, it came down to the infamous double hill, with Keith breaking. Now, anybody who knows Keith's game is well aware that breaking is not his strong suit. :o

The crowd soon came to a quiet hush, as Keith addressed the table, getting ready to crack the rack. You could hear a pin drop, and you could cut the air with a knife, the tension was so think. I bit off all my nails and was sitting on my hands, hoping for the best.

McCready garnered all the strength he could muster to break the balls, and he fired. When the cueball hit the rack, it wasn't hard enough to break an egg. Nothing fell, but even with the weak hit, the balls miraculously seemed to blossom out just like a flower. :sad:

Charlie couldn't get to the table fast enough to run out for the almighty win. Speaking of eggs, you could have fried an egg on Keith's head right about then, as he was watching Charlie prancing around the table, running out with ease. :D

Hillbilly triumphed. Keith immediately unscrewed his stick and ran out the tournament room. I followed him to give him a few consoling words, since the match was so close. Keith was irate, spitting mad, stating that Charlie deliberately snorted right as he was pulling the trigger to break. :angry:

Now, I gotta say truthfully that I was there, sitting right on the rail, 5 feet or so from the table, and I never once heard Charlie snort. Not even a sniffle. But Keith ranted and raved over and over again how Charlie sharked him with a loud snort right when he was trying to break.

Soon Charlie approached us out in the hallway and overheard Keith spouting off at the mouth. Charlie swore up and down he didn't think he snorted and didn't mean to snort, if he did, but he did say that he suffered from sinuses from time to time. :D

I know for a fact that if Keith had made a good break and won that match against Charlie, he would have never heard any snort. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it! :winknudge:

Singing: Ya know when that shark bites, with his teeth, babe. Scarlet billows start to spread. ;)
 
jay helfert said:
I got your PM's and they didn't hold water either. You're trying to rewrite history for a match you lost ten years ago. No one sharked you, except yourself. You lost because Mike Massey beat you. Only suckers look for an excuse why they lost. Don't blame that one on me.

The only part of your story that was correct is that I was the TD for that event, and you did lose to Mike Massey. He also made a few more balls than you did, and missed a few less too. That's one of his best sharking moves. ;)
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Um, I believe he said he won.
 
Hambone said:
Um, I believe he said he won.
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My mistake. I must have overlooked that part while I was reading the accusations that were made against me.
 
I was playing in an 8 ball tourney Saturday against this young loud guy. I'd heard him in other matches. He was all pumped up (musta got a fresh batch).

I was eye-ing a fairly full table and he's standing close and says "Oh man, you gotta go with the 4 ball!". I said "yeah, you wish. Earl couldn't get out from here." I proceeded to lock him in jail so bad he lost his tongue! I earned BIH and ran out, closing him out.

BTW, someone pissed in Jay's wheaties. Don't publicly tug on that cape!
 
Lol

JAM said:
Keith was irate, spitting mad, stating that Charlie deliberately snorted right as he was pulling the trigger to break. :angry:

Now, I gotta say truthfully that I was there, sitting right on the rail, 5 feet or so from the table, and I never once heard Charlie snort. Not even a sniffle. But Keith ranted and raved over and over again how Charlie sharked him with a loud snort right when he was trying to break.
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Sometimes there are shark moves, but I gotta tell ya (and most players will vouch for this) When you are in a key spot in a key match.....you become hyper sensitive! Your ears become bionic, your brain is moving at warp speed. You can smell a hamburger from a block away! LOL.

I know Charlie and I don't think he would intentionally snort in a match with another pro player at a key moment. I have been in a match with Charlie were he became the "loud talker" with the spectators. LOL. I simply stood up and looked at him until he asked, "what's up?". I told him that I would wait until he finished. He apologized and never talked loud again. He went on to win 9-6! LOL.

Charlie is AS passionate about the sport and profession as anyone you will ever meet. I have noticed an ongoing improvement in Charlie every since I've know him. It's one of things I admire the most.

Ray
 
Hambone said:
Were they there? Most likly the only two people on this board who know what happened are Dave and Jay. Why not let them settle it via pm's. Jay is a well respected poster and tournament director and I'm sure is trying to protect his good name. I've met Dave Gross and can assure you he would no more competly fabricate a false story than you would.
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I think that when Dave posted his 'story' the chance to settle it thru PMs was thrown out the window. Dave should have drove down that street first if it was something that was still bothering him a decade later. I wouldn't blame Jay if he posted the PMs that he is receiving now from Gross.

I do know that I watched Jay direct the Fatboy 10 ball challenge at the DCC and many a tournament director could take lessons from him. He had the players complete attention when going over the rules. He made continuous moves around the floor to keep an eye on all matches. If a spectator even came too close to a table, he immediately and politely asked the person to move. And he made sure that every player had a chair in a very crowded room. This is the Jay Helfert I saw and how he ran a tournament. Unless Jay has changed his integrity in the past 10 years, I highly doubt David Gross' story. BTW, most people don't change their integrity - you either have it or you don't.

Mr. Wilson said:
So, I gotta tell you that my sources say the story is pure fabrication.

It is also not especially cool to make something like this up when the man is right here in your midst.
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I don't think it matters if you make something up - whether the person is in your midst or on the other side of the world.
 
Yes I have

Tom In Cincy said:
Is it really necessary to chalk your tip 27 times?
Taking 2-3 minutes per shot?
Picking up invisible lint?
Talk to the crowd when your opponent is shooting?
Get out of your chair to look at the table layout?
Call for a ref when it is not really necessary? (have you ever seen a ref give an unsportsmanlike warning for this?)
Show up late for a match and get pissed because you complain about them spending 15 minutes PRACTICING?

Where did they learn how to get away with these acts?
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I actually was in the area of a match that was getting a little heated.
The players started to ask me to watch shots, at first they were legit shots that could have resulted in a foul very easily but somewhere along the way one of the players got PO'd that the opponent would dare ask for that kind of shot to be watched. Next came another request, and this shot could have resulted in a foul only if they had passed out and fallen on the table. I stopped the match and told them both to knock it off. Needless to say they did not call me over again during that match.
 
Guys,

Clearly I showed bad judgment in sharing my incident, and since it's not remembered, I will remove it. The biggest problem with this forum is we (I) begin to feel more familiar with some of the folks that post on a regular basis. I really thought the person would get a kick out of it, I had no idea it would be received the way it has. Sorry for that.

I call truce.

Dave Gross
 
There's snorting and there's snorting.

JAM said:
At a Glass City Open held in Toledo, OH -- I can't remember the year, maybe 2004 -- Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant was getting ready to play a money rounds match against Keith "Earthquake" McCready.

Before the match, McCready was knocking balls around on their designated table, trying to get warmed up. He arrived 20 minutes or so before the match. Soon thereafter, Charlie made his presence known and asked if he could warm up too. Everything seemed normal, as most tournaments go. There were some polite exchanges made between the two. :p

The match progresses, and it was hard fought. Keith was warping balls in, and Charlie was breaking like a cannon, making 4 and 5 balls on the break sometimes. :eek:

If memory serves me right, it came down to the infamous double hill, with Keith breaking. Now, anybody who knows Keith's game is well aware that breaking is not his strong suit. :o

The crowd soon came to a quiet hush, as Keith addressed the table, getting ready to crack the rack. You could hear a pin drop, and you could cut the air with a knife, the tension was so think. I bit off all my nails and was sitting on my hands, hoping for the best.

McCready garnered all the strength he could muster to break the balls, and he fired. When the cueball hit the rack, it wasn't hard enough to break an egg. Nothing fell, but even with the weak hit, the balls miraculously seemed to blossom out just like a flower. :sad:

Charlie couldn't get to the table fast enough to run out for the almighty win. Speaking of eggs, you could have fried an egg on Keith's head right about then, as he was watching Charlie prancing around the table, running out with ease. :D

Hillbilly triumphed. Keith immediately unscrewed his stick and ran out the tournament room. I followed him to give him a few consoling words, since the match was so close. Keith was irate, spitting mad, stating that Charlie deliberately snorted right as he was pulling the trigger to break. :angry:

Now, I gotta say truthfully that I was there, sitting right on the rail, 5 feet or so from the table, and I never once heard Charlie snort. Not even a sniffle. But Keith ranted and raved over and over again how Charlie sharked him with a loud snort right when he was trying to break.

Soon Charlie approached us out in the hallway and overheard Keith spouting off at the mouth. Charlie swore up and down he didn't think he snorted and didn't mean to snort, if he did, but he did say that he suffered from sinuses from time to time. :D

I know for a fact that if Keith had made a good break and won that match against Charlie, he would have never heard any snort. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it! :winknudge:

Singing: Ya know when that shark bites, with his teeth, babe. Scarlet billows start to spread. ;)
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We've got a guy in New Orleans who supposedly has sinus problems, but only when he is standing behind you and it is your shot. It's kind of funny because he seldom ever clears his sinuses when he is shooting, that is, unless he thinks you are keeping tabs on him. He moves around a lot when you are shooting too. :D

JoeyA
 
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sharking

Geez, guys toughen up, it aint church. Don't be so paranoid. Keep your focus, your sharking your selves.
 
So True (IMO)

androd said:
Geez, guys toughen up, it aint church. Don't be so paranoid. Keep your focus, your sharking your selves.
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I will be down on a shot, about to shoot, and my brain will go.....Booooo!

Dammit

Ray
(sometimes it will snort too)
 
12squared said:
Guys,

Clearly I showed bad judgment in sharing my incident, and since it's not remembered, I will remove it. The biggest problem with this forum is we (I) begin to feel more familiar with some of the folks that post on a regular basis. I really thought the person would get a kick out of it, I had no idea it would be received the way it has. Sorry for that.

I call truce.

Dave Gross
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I like John Barton's post. It could have happened just the way he said it happened but kudos to you for not beating a dead horse.

Peace,
JoeyA
 
this particular incident is buried as it should be

This particular incident is buried as it should be. However in defense of Dave, Keith, and everyone who tells a story from their perspective, I have competed at things where there were from about ten to over fifty people competing at once. Everyone had their own perspective as to what happened and almost everyone believed deep in their heart they were telling the truth.

Years later when we sat around and old stories were told they were very seldom how I remembered them and I was there for most of them, often a central figure. Horse racing was one of the things I found the stories most humorous in. There was always one winner and nine others that would have won if one, usually tiny, thing hadn't went wrong.

As for myself, I tried to either give the unvarnished truth or the silliest BS excuse I could think of for losing thinking all would recognize the tongue in cheek. Often I heard it repeated as gospel or was consoled for it happening!

Hu
 
When you put your heart into directing tournaments and making sure everything is fair and ALL players have a level playing field, it can be mildly irritating to hear a player complain about how you're running things. And when that complaint comes ten years after the fact, that can be even more irritating.

I try to do the best I can and sometimes I make mistakes. I'm only human. But one thing I won't do is anything to help one player over another. You will find an interesting story (and appropriate here) in my book about refereeing a match (the finals) between Nick Varner and Jose Parica in Kentucky. That's Varner country in case you didn't know. I called a foul on Nick at a critical juncture in the match and the crowd went crazy. I stuck to my guns and Nick admitted he may have fouled.

That's the way I roll. :thumbup:
 
stretches my imagination . . .

Jay,

It stretches my imagination beyond the limits to believe that you had instructed someone to call you on your walkie-talkie if the match reached a critical juncture, not going the way you wished it to. On the other hand I can easily believe that you failed to realize the complaint was serious and gave a silly off the wall answer just as I might do myself.

My humor has gotten me in the middle of a storm more than once when I had no idea someone would take me serious. I even lost the friendship of a fellow competitor whom I was starting to consider a real friend because of a totally tongue in cheek remark on the internet. I was a beginner at the sport and it is played on a level field. I was competing against people the next day that were capable of beating anyone in the world on a given day. My net comment was that I was going to snatch the easy pickings at that event before moving on.

This was the most major shark I ever pulled, and totally by accident. Every time he walked by me during that competition I heard him muttering, "easy pickings, easy pickings . . ." Despite my efforts he never forgot or forgave a comment that I thought everyone reading would realize was total BS and intended as such.

Hu



jay helfert said:
When you put your heart into directing tournaments and making sure everything is fair and ALL players have a level playing field, it can be mildly irritating to hear a player complain about how you're running things. And when that complaint comes ten years after the fact, that can be even more irritating.

I try to do the best I can and sometimes I make mistakes. I'm only human. But one thing I won't do is anything to help one player over another. You will find an interesting story (and appropriate here) in my book about refereeing a match (the finals) between Nick Varner and Jose Parica in Kentucky. That's Varner country in case you didn't know. I called a foul on Nick at a critical juncture in the match and the crowd went crazy. I stuck to my guns and Nick admitted he may have fouled.

That's the way I roll. :thumbup:
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ShootingArts said:
Jay,

It stretches my imagination beyond the limits to believe that you had instructed someone to call you on your walkie-talkie if the match reached a critical juncture, not going the way you wished it to. On the other hand I can easily believe that you failed to realize the complaint was serious and gave a silly off the wall answer just as I might do myself.

My humor has gotten me in the middle of a storm more than once when I had no idea someone would take me serious. I even lost the friendship of a fellow competitor whom I was starting to consider a real friend because of a totally tongue in cheek remark on the internet. I was a beginner at the sport and it is played on a level field. I was competing against people the next day that were capable of beating anyone in the world on a given day. My net comment was that I was going to snatch the easy pickings at that event before moving on.

This was the most major shark I ever pulled, and totally by accident. Every time he walked by me during that competition I heard him muttering, "easy pickings, easy pickings . . ." Despite my efforts he never forgot or forgave a comment that I thought everyone reading would realize was total BS and intended as such.

Hu
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Thanks Hu, this may be the case here. I've been known to give "off the wall" responses to something when it seems like the person is kidding around with me. Just like I do on here.
 
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