My Experience at the Tornado Open

Chicagoplayer

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I am sick.
This whole thing has caused me to be physically ill.

There are times when disappointment actually causes physical discomfort.
Much of this discomfort comes from confusion,
thinking something is one way,
only to find out it is another.
That in of itself can be distressing.
But when you thought something was good and found out it was bad,
it's a hurt that feels like betrayal and a struggle to understand "why" begins,
to resolve that discomfort and ease the confusion and lessen the pain.

I will share with you and try to ease your pain as many are confused.

This event is The Tornado Open hosted by The Seminole tribe of Florida,
held in the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino.

I participated in the Amateur Women's Event. (As it was near equal to paying for admission)
I made it to 16th and then asked Vivian what places were being paid out until-

her response to me was "I don't know, we still haven't decided"

I wasn't aware things were being decided as we go.
I understand contingencies and so forth but I thought we were going forward with an event in it's 3rd year, which already had this end ironed out. Okay.

Well eventually she did decide.She decided to pay through 12th.
No worries.
I enjoyed my time on the table, but it would have been nice to cash.

While play was active all around including during my match, issues with the Security Guard in the fluorescent yellow shirts, watching the matches in the live-stream aisle, tapping his rings on the metal bleachers.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding.!!!

People are playing everywhere! This is their money and you're obliviously tapping away!
ARGH!
I stop play in the middle of my stroke to turn around and stare him down and he realizes and stops.

After my 2nd loss I discover there are vendor booths on the far side of the arena that I never knew were there!
No announcements had been made - of these vendors was Molinari, Omega Mike and then-

This is where Vivian broke my heart and lost my respect.

There was an 80 year old Seminole woman who made dolls and bags by hand,
her name is Agnes.
Hunched from age over her dolls, she sat alone at her table.
I stopped and asked her if she had much business,
she did not look me in the eye and did not speak a word, she only shook her head no.

I didn't know she was there!
I would have spoke up and said something if I knew she was there...
Of course I bought 3 dolls right then and there and then I went outside to smoke a cigarette and cry.

The sight of this woman and how desolate her area was,
and that no one knew and no one cared, simply killed me.

Coming back into the arena I still had tears streaming down my face because now,
by that time I wanted everyone to know she existed.
I cleaned my face and stopped the water works.
I told Mike Delawder and he said he'd buy one.
Then I approached TD Linda Garza and asked that she make an announcement overhead to get some traffic that way, explaining to her that this woman is sitting there at her traffic-less table.
She made exactly one announcement on Saturday after my prompting.
None had been made on any of the days before.

This is on a human level.
On a personal level, I am of mixed heritage which includes native.
That you would allow such an inconsideration and oversight of your sponsor tribe AND as a paying vendor, to happen under your watch, is at it simplest, just awful.
Awful on many levels.


Staffing-

One referee.
You choose to have 8 overlapping professional, amateur and tribal events and only provide one referee?
Not only do you only provide one referee, but I know the guy, I like the guy.
But in no way is/was one referee adequate!
Nor can a referee's job be done over 32 tables from the seated position.
Nor can a referee's job be done while stationary, or kibitzing or while on the phone.
On Saturday alone, I had to get his attention and tell him to look up and see he was needed, 3 times Saturday alone, for which he thanked me.

On the subject of 8 overlapping events.
By using your friends and family, they were made to work well over 12 hour days-
you did everyone a disservice by stretching yourself thin on quality staffing and putting these women through the duress of coordinating 8 events and long hours
It's just selfish. You are terribly selfish.

You had an elderly woman as a referee for the tribal event, you had your elderly mother
working HARD behind the counter, you had Linda Garza and your GF overburdened and overloaded.
What is that besides elderly abuse?
Simple.
Greed.

What's worse is that you thought you could hold an event,
manage an event and play in the event and do all of this efficiently and then act surprised when people ask legitimate questions that you and your staff cannot answer in a polite or courteous way because everyone's so overworked,
manners have gone out the window, and now you feel as though you're being attacked.
This is also at it's root, selfish.

Perhaps if running a quality event was the priority.
But it was not.
Why do I sound so confident in my assessment of the situation?

Because of what I saw from Vivian during the J&J Scotch Doubles.

Fine, she talked to her opponents during her match, some would say she sharked them here and there.

It was what I saw when she won...
To go off hooting and hollering after the last ball went in the hole and leave your opponents, Allison Fisher and John Morra standing there, waiting to shake your hand?!

This was poor sportsmanship on display for the world to see.

We all stood there, pretty much disgusted at this flagrant show.
I understand being happy to win.
But this was not merely a fist pump or a primal yell.

How could you be so happy to take money out of your brothers and sisters pockets in such a denigrating fashion as to flaunt it in their faces by making them wait?

I sent both John and Allison a message telling them I saw the lack of humility shown them and I felt very bad for them and the situation.
Because at that point, what else can you say?

You broke many people's hearts, not just mine.

Do you know you broke Josh Roberts heart Vivian?

No?
Well let me tell you from his own mouth:
He adored you.
He was so happy to be in Florida playing after taking 2nd in Beloit (I was there)
You were the only woman player that had a slip-stroke like his and plus he admired that you were creating something for the players.
Until he experienced you.

Then he decided to speak his mind and posted about his experience as did a couple of other players from what I understand.
All were asked by fellow players at Vivian's urging to say something positive, rather than bash the event,
and those that were rightfully wronged relented rather than "make problems" and create dissension, ultimately, they removed their posts.
They folded in the interest of being better men and women and giving her a chance.
She also asked some personally to remove their posts.

In the interest of brotherhood, they held their tongues.

"You" ladies and gentlemen, are truly good people,
and you want what's best for your sport,
and I understand why you subsequently became quiet.

You thought it would be the honorable thing to do.

There is no honor in it at all.
It does no one any good at all because change will not happen if you allow bad behavior to be the norm.

I've had enough with the disrespect of our players.
They deserve better and most of you agree.
Haven't they been beat down enough from both outside and within to have to worry about their sister now putting the squeeze on them?
Stand up for yourselves!


Bad Behavior from spectators:
Now, I'm a pool person, from the top of my head to the tips of my toes.
If there are any among you who sit in the front row of a streaming match between Champions and you don't have the courtesy to put your phones down and give these amazing talents your full attention,

leave the arena to use your phone.

Vivian this means you also, as I sat and watched you on the phone there in the first row as a match was in play.
Blatantly rude.

Again, your own desire to watch matches as everyone else around you contended with tournament chaos only reinforces my point.

Now I'm not just talking about people on their phones,
I'm talking about guys like this:
Stupid Foot Guy and his Ignorant Friend ( Ignorant friend walked to his seat in front of Shane as Shane was down on the shot on the 10!! because I'm only allowed 5 pics at a time, I will regale you with these, shame on these guys- If you know 'em, tell 'em I said so)
How can you disrespect our players like that? Just ARGGGGGH!

Vivian-how come you or the people you paid to do the stream or the referee didn't speak up?!!
I got the guys attention and he took his feet down.
I also almost got punched in the face by a security guard who was entirely oblivious to his volume, his choice of words and where he was standing.
This is not my job.
But it is my duty to point out pool etiquette in respect to our players.
They deserve respect, and I will fight or eat fist to make sure they get it.

Why wouldn't you ask for courtesy for your players?

Most of the announcements besides matches, were no filming announcements and the one announcement was made to shame a man when he (guy in the pink shirt) knocked over Ga Young Kim's Cue because there was no place to rest a cue at any tables-

How hard would it have been to ask Robin Bell for Cue-Clips or Mueller or anybody for Grippers to rest their cues on?

Not everyone has a case that holds a cue when it's put together.

You're a player for goodness sakes, how can this most basic of things escape you?

Twice I saw cues go down because the players in the streaming area had leaned their cues and who ever walked past, caught them and down they went onto the hard floor.
Maybe you were busy playing.

I had to leave the arena after the Men's Pro Finals were finished but before the Women's Pro event wrapped up.

Vivian-
How dare you cry to new player April Larsen about how difficult it's been to run this event with people coming at you from all directions-

She didn't need this drama coming into a professional event her first year out.
She doesn't deserve that coming from the woman who granted no one a pass for their significant other.
You didn't just squeeze, you squeezed hard!
April's grandparents live there on a fixed budget and couldn't afford the $200+ to watch their granddaughter play you see,
and now here you are to cry on her shoulder and tell her how you're being overwhelmed?

That's what your girlfriend is for, or your TD or your mother or your player friends.

You got a lot of nerve to cry to an 18 yr old new player.

That's rotten and again, selfish on an exponential level.

Moving right along with unburdenings-
I asked TD Linda if I could take a picture of these buckets of balls that were behind her. Upon doing so, she chose to unburden herself to me, citing that this has been difficult running 8 events, I say "I thought it was 6."
she corrects me and says it's 8 and how when one match gets held up it creates a ripple effect, slowing things down and creating jams.
I say "I've thrown my hat into the promoters ring once, next time I'll take $8,000 in champagne, fill the tub and soak my head for having such a bright idea. Chicago-Venom, 2011, also why I will never back anything Venom does. Ungrateful and inconsiderate, and I'm done being mum about that.)
TD then goes on about her business as no mercy is to be had from our exchange.

If we stay quiet, we will keep getting what we've been getting.

This pattern is repeating itself.

DO NOT BE QUIET OR SILENCED ANY LONGER!

If you see bad being done, do not tolerate it or we will have another U.S. Open promoter on the loose and we will all shake our heads, feeling powerless when the power to enforce change lies in our hands the whole time.

I'll be damned if I let anyone ride on the backs of the tribes or the backs of their fellow players while trying to tell me it's for the good of the game!

The ridiculous part is I could actually go on but
writing about this much of it should suffice.
:mad:
 

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Way to go for telling us your story.

I'm tired of hearing people try to cover up for incompetence.

Sounds to me like the whole thing was a cluster $&CK from the beginning.
 
Hahahaha

Reminded me of the guy from casino who put his feet on the table, only he's worse cause he came to a pool event and is staring at a phone
 
Great write up of what you experienced. I'm sure there will be a few that read this and will post their comments that Vivian is the greatest thing ever. She may be well respected for her accomplishments but having a strong moral compass is a completely different thing. Good for you. Keep standing up for what you believe in!
 
Hi Angel, You put a lot of thought into that post and I thank you for your time and effort in writing about your experience. Native Americans have been screwed since the Europeans came to this country. Sadly it continues to this very day. My daughter saw it firsthand during a bicycle ride across America. The group she was with passed through several reservations on their journey and she was shocked and appalled at the poverty and living conditions she saw.
The pool tournament itself has been widely discussed as being poorly run on several levels, sadly that is what pool has become here in this country. Hope you are well!
 
Wow... I can't believe you took the time to right such a post. I wanted to thank you for your honesty and tell you I was very well written. I almost drove there and bought tickets. Kind of glad I didn't now. So sorry, but once again. Thank you.
 
Great write up of what you experienced. I'm sure there will be a few that read this and will post their comments that Vivian is the greatest thing ever. She may be well respected for her accomplishments but having a strong moral compass is a completely different thing. Good for you. Keep standing up for what you believe in!

I feel the same. Thanks again.
 
It always makes my heart heavy to hear of yet another story that means this sport is years and years away from mainstream legitimacy. Thank you for sharing your experience though.
 
Wow..thanks for sharing.

If you'd like to see a tournament where players and Native Americans
are treated well, come to Lincoln City Oregon for the Chinook Winds
Open. Play begins Friday the 7th.
 
Not to mention that according to the literature promoting the event payment for entry was due July 1st. Several players who expressed interest in playing never followed through and payed. So from what I read so far they were 48 players short of the 125 player field they were expecting, 48x$500 entry is $24,000. That's $24,000 that should have been prize money. So July 1st they obviously should have been aware of this and stop advertising that it was going to be a $100,000 event.

The literature also said that the unpaid slots would be made available to anyone that wanted to enter. So why were the unpaid players still listed in the event?

Thanks for taking the time to write this.
 
Thank you for your honest assessment and that was a great write up. I am going to offer just a few of my opinions since this is a discussion board.

As to the phones - I do disagree with you. As long as there are no sounds / lights to distract players people that paid a bunch of money to come there should be allowed to do what they need to do on their phones without having to walk however far to do it .

The guy with his feet up, while not appropriate I did find it kinda funny. Admittedly , I do go barefoot most of the time ( whenever feasible ) but in a public setting like that not so much. Surprised with it being a casino they allowed it. Putting the feet up - kinda on the fence but probably not right. But you compared these pool players to performers and I know if I'm at a ballgame I occasionally put my feet up on the seats in front of me if no one is there and it seems to be no big deal. I've also donenjoy this in crappie movie theaters when they don't give you enough legroom ( I'm a big guy ).

It was very cool and awesome what you did for the native woman.

I always knew VV had a girlfriend and you just confirmed it.
 
Vivian is very very self centered. She is low quality trailer trash. I knew anything she was involved in would only be as good as her. I bet she acted foolishly after beating Allison. Id inagine thats a first for Viv. She reminds me that pool is considered very low on the social scale here in the USA. And if the best we can do is Viv and Earl, then no wonder we are considered trailer park.
How many pros showed up to play. I doubt many of them have any respect for ole Viv. Frankly i am shocked a truly graceful champion like Allison Fisher would waste her time.
 
Thank you Angel for your assessment of this "event." I admire your honesty. You always do shoot straight from the hip. Too bad we don't have more like you in the Pool world.

The good promoters eventually get run out of the game by all the back biting and selfish behavior by so many small minded and greedy people. I put up with it for over thirty years but I'm finally done with all this bullshit. How I survived all these years is beyond me. I guess it's because I really cared! I cannot bring myself to attend the U.S. Open and see the former promoter eulogized as some kind of Godsend to Pool. He was one of the most selfish, egotistical and cruel people I have ever met. To be accurate I put up with him all those years in spite of his boorish behavior, for the sake of the players and the event.

Thank you for giving me an opportunity to unburden myself as well. Like you I still love the game and there are many great people I've met because of it. I chose to remember that and not the other part.
 
When I saw that guy with his bare feet on the table/railing or whatever, I was reminded of this scene from "Casino". BTW this is pretty much the ideal way to handle people like that. "I want you to exit this guy off the premises, off his feet and use his head to open the door" (paraphrased):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9II4W_RiN-o

I can't believe anyone would put their bare feet up in someones face like that. Not just anyones face, but one of the worlds best players, playing a big tournament. Some people just have no class at all! I'm not a guy that usually get bothered easily while at the table, but I have to say that this would make me react. Stinking feet in peoples faces? Someone call Joe Pesci to smack that guy over his inconsiderate head with his own cellphone!
 
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When I saw that guy with his bare feet on the table/railing or whatever, I was reminded of this scene from "Casino". BTW this is pretty much the ideal way to handle people like that. "I want you to exit this guy off the premises, off his feet and use his head to open the door" (paraphrased):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9II4W_RiN-o

I can't believe anyone would put their bare feet up in someones face like that. Not just anyones face, but one of the worlds best players, playing a big tournament. Some people just have no class at all! I'm not a guy that usually get bothered easily while at the table, but I have to say that this would make me react.

Putting your bare feet up like that in a public facility is rude, nasty, and classless...no matter where you are.

FWIW, the fact that it was at this tournament is irrelevant. SVB and none of the other pros matter to me anymore than Joe Blow who is an APA-2 in the bar league. If you want to look at it as a "big tournament", there were less people there watching it than there were at the elementary school soccer match across the street from me.

Pro pool is a joke today. Some people want to put pro athletes on some sort of pedestal. To me, they are nothing more than somebody who dedicated a lot of time to something. In pro pool's case, it is people without a job who have dedicated a lot of time to something that doesn't pay well.
 
Putting your bare feet up like that in a public facility is rude, nasty, and classless...no matter where you are.

FWIW, the fact that it was at this tournament is irrelevant. SVB and none of the other pros matter to me anymore than Joe Blow who is an APA-2 in the bar league. If you want to look at it as a "big tournament", there were less people there watching it than there were at the elementary school soccer match across the street from me.

Pro pool is a joke today. Some people want to put pro athletes on some sort of pedestal. To me, they are nothing more than somebody who dedicated a lot of time to something. In pro pool's case, it is people without a job who have dedicated a lot of time to something that doesn't pay well.

I disagree regarding special considerations given to the pros. Even though a pro is just a human being like all of us, their job is one that requires a relatively calm, quiet environment. Their job may not be life-or-death important to the community, but they should be given the same respect as any other person who's job requires concentration. Since their job requires extreme concentration in a short time span, I think the least one could do is to be considerate at those times. The fact that they earn little should make you MORE considerate, rather than less. They depend on whatever small scraps the promotor throws their way, so let's try not to make their lives any harder, what do you say?
 
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I disagree regarding special considerations given to the pros. Even though a pro is just a human being like all of us, their job is one that requires a relatively calm, quiet environment. Their job may not be life-or-death important to the community, but they should be given the same respect as any other person who's job requires concentration. Since their job requires extreme concentration in a short time span, I think the least one could do is to be considerate at those times. The fact that they earn little should make you MORE considerate, rather than less. They depend on whatever small scraps the promotor throws their way, so let's try not to make their lives any harder, what do you say?

I am considerate of every player in the pool room, not just the pro players.

I tell the idiots in the pool room to behave every Sunday when I go there. There is no etiquette in today's pool world...90% of the people playing are there to socialize.

The guy in the crane lifting heavy objects over people's heads requires more concentration than anybody playing pool, but there seems to be quite a bit of noise usually in the construction areas.

It isn't the "normal" noises that bother people most. It is the "abnormal" noises and distractions...the "sharking".

Noises bother me less than idiots walking around the next table near me. I like lots of distance between me and idiots that pay no attention and bump into you while you are in the process of shooting. If you are at the end of one table, I won't even go to that side of the table until you are completely out of the way and I expect others to do the same.

Where I play some of the idiots will gather at what I call "family reunions" around the table where their friend, or team mate, is playing and they won't budge until you tell them to get the fugg out of the way. Then they will look at you, like you are the problem.
 
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