My lists of greatest players

[Terry Ardeno]

I'm going to get banned....

I had a great idea that I wish I would have thought of earlier.

In Buddy Hall's biography "Rags to Rifleman" by W.W.Woody, I checked the back index for references to Jose Parica. There are 7 references and 1 photo.

In each of the times Parica was mentioned (pages 202, 209, 234, 252,255,
276 & 278, it was him losing in a tournament or match.

On page 276, there is a story about an all-around 3 way challenge match between Buddy, Jose & Mizerak. The games were 1 pocket, 14.1 and 9 ball. It says on line 4 that Parica was the 1st one eliminated from all 3 divisions.

And on page 278, it quotes Louie Roberts telling Jose that you can beat all the Americans, just stay clear of Buddy Hall. The author says that Parica followed Roberts advice and avoided Hall.

Lastly, who was the only one to have beaten Efren "Ceasar Morales" Reyes when he first came to the USA? Buddy Hall! He won $10,000 off of Reyes when they played. Monroe Brock was Buddy's stakehorse.


The defence rests....

 

[jay helfert]

Geez, Jay. I always thought you didn't mind me asking so many questions. You have answered dozens of them from me in the past, including being so kind to share info via the PMs. If I upset you or got you angry, please forgive me. I get the strong impression that you think I'm knocking your info. For some reason, you seem very testy about this. Maybe I'm wrong....

As for the Taylor film. Here's some info for you if you're interested. A VHS tape entitled "Eddie Taylor & The Legends of Pool" was produced in 1996 by a company called Scenic Publishing. It's running time is 2hrs 5 min. Eddie's nephew and set up man on the road is Alf Taylor, one of the guys I just asked hemicuda's about. Alf is a very strong player in his own right and I enjoy hearing fresh stories of him as well. Anyway, back to the tape.
In addition to Eddie running banks, it also has his 1993 BCA HOF induction ceremony and testimonials from other great players. Since he was born in 1918 and this tape was made in 1996, that makes him 78 years old when the film was being produced. At one point in the video, at the age of 78 and almost blind, he is STILL running banks!

Next, my pun about the "west coast players" was meant as a joke, that's why I put the smiling figure. I'm east coast, you're west coast and usually, good natured woofing has been somewhat lauded. You are one of the biggest joksters on this forum, plus, I'm very confident that you know me well enough by my posts that I am never trying to hurt or embarrass anyone here, right?

Lastly, I BELIEVE YOU about Parica! I have posted several other times on AZB about how strong a player Parica was / is. I disagree that he was more feared than Buddy Hall in his prime. Just by what you posted just now, about how Parica could never get a game in anything. That's the part that confuses me. (And the post you referenced was just regarding Buddy vs Jose). If Buddy was beating all those players and Jose went about 15 years with very little or no gambling matches, then if Buddy was playing and WINNING, he would seem to be the better player. Heck, Efren, as great as he's playing one pocket these days, STILL gets to match up for the cash! If Jose was that good, and he could not get any significant action, then why wasn't he tearing up the majors? That is the only part I'm mixed up on. I am not trying to sound like I know more than you or anything like that. We have always been pals and I want to do everything I can to keep on good terms with you. If me asking these questions agitates you, again Jay, I'm very sorry. My intent was to learn why you feel that way, not to dispute with you.

I would be proud to explain to someone why I think so & so should be ranked where I have them. I would feel honored that someone thought highly enough of my post to even care to ask questions. And of all the many members here who I've traded insights and info with, it has always been that way.

If I pi$$ed you off by asking about Jose, I really am sorry. I sincerely meant no harm...

AND, if you are NOT upset or agitated by my questions....then it was me who mis-read the intent of your reply.

Still buds???

Now I'm really mad! ha ha ha ha

Easy there T-dog, read my post again. I wasn't testy at all, just tying to explain why I thought Jose was a better gambler. This is not about tournament play at all. Any top player can win a tournament, but let them play ten ahead and you'll find out who the best player is.

Buddy definitely had more winning money sessions than anyone else of the last 30 years. But when it came to being the best and most feared gambler, Jose was the man for many years himself. Remember one important thing Terry, when no one will play you is the highest compliment a pool player can get. No one wanted to discuss a game with Jose for a long time. He was left out of the loop so to speak. Wonder why?

Even now, people aren't running up to Jose and asking him to play, are they? From 1986 to 2000 they ran away from him!

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Now I'm really mad! ha ha ha ha

Easy there T-dog, read my post again. I wasn't testy at all, just tying to explain why I thought Jose was a better gambler. This is not about tournament play at all. Any top player can win a tournament, but let them play ten ahead and you'll find out who plays the best.

Buddy definitely had more winning money sessions than anyone else of the last 30 years. But when it came to being the best and most feared gambler, Jose was the man for many years himself. Remember one important thing Terry, when no one will play you is the highest compliment a pool player can get. No one wanted to discuss a game with Jose for a long time. He was left out of the loop so to speak. Wonder why?

Even now, people aren't running up to Jose and asking him to play, are they?

Thank you Jay!

I'm a pretty hard guy, but I really do care about our friendship and I thought (wrongly) that I upset the apple cart somehow. Sorry for mis-interpreting you and thanks for not being ticked. I really got worried and I'm glad all is still good between us.

Thanks again buddy! (not Buddy, you Jay!)

Edit-PS...
"T-dog" That's the first pool nickname I ever got from a famous guy. I'm going to go wake up my wife and tell her that Jay just gave me a nick-name. Or, better not. I don't want her upset with me either...

 

[grandpapkusky]

In his prime, for the cash, Hopkins was the nuts at just about every game. Heads up against many of the pros listed here, betting with their own money, I'd take him over anyone as long as it was a long session. Just my opinion

If they played a round robin game like the fats vs mosconi video where there was 9ball, rotation, straight pool, and 1P.... I'd REALLY pick him.

Hopkins is a genious at pool. He can play all the games and is a very savy gambler as well. Often forgotten for some reason.

 

[Danny Kuykendal]

In a tournament in Chicago about 1991, Buddy was playing very good pool and all of the three Philipinos that were there and Buddy offered to play all of them, even in succession if they wanted. They all declined, including Jose.
I was there with Joe Salazar on my only road trip.

Danny

 

[ShootingArts]

Not sure how much this all means

In a tournament in Chicago about 1991, Buddy was playing very good pool and of the three Philipinos that were there and Buddy offered to play all of them, even in succession if they wanted. They all declined, including Jose.
I was there with Joe Salazar on my only road trip.

Danny

Danny,

Yours just happens to be the last post but in reply to all the posts of "so and so wouldn't play so and so" I'm not sure how much that means. There are a few road warriors out there that spend a career taking on the toughest competition they can find and there are a few youngsters trying to get seasoning. However the vast majority of road players are and were trying to make a living. Getting in tough battles that really boil down to who is playing better on a given day just isn't smart when you are there to make money.

When a player refuses to gamble with another player it doesn't mean the other player is better, just that there is an unacceptable level of risk involved.

Hu

 

[corvette1340]

My list of greatest players would be the ones that I have personally seen play. Some of the greatest pool I've seen with my own eyes would have to include Johnny Archer, Corey Deuel, Shane Van Boening, Shannon Daulton, Stevie Moore, Rodney Morris, Thorsten Hohmann, Ralf Souquet, Tony Watson, and Bruce Berrong. Now that being said, that is only the people I have watched in person. I heard from several players that Mark Tadd was a beast back in the day, along with James Walden for the cabbage and CJ Wiley back in the 90's as well. I've also watched Scotty Townsend and Cliff Joyner torcher some poor guys as well. I guess it really is very subjective as to whom people consider the greatest because all the guys listed in this thread are great pool players in some capacity.
Gabe Owen has my vote for greatest partner. We were out in downtown Athens one time along with Corey, Tony Crosby, Bruce, Southpaw, and others. I barked at a couple of guys to play partners and they said they would play any of us except Bruce since he is the local Athens legend. Gabe stepped up and we played the two for $20 a game bar box 8 ball. Gabe asked if he should stall a little but Bruce knew the guys and said they would lose around $100 so just go ahead and play. He broke and ran the first 5 racks! The guys just stood there with smiles on their faces. They told him to go ahead and break again because they wanted to see if he would ever miss. He ran to the 8 and missed and I got to make the final ball.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Danny,

Yours just happens to be the last post but in reply to all the posts of "so and so wouldn't play so and so" I'm not sure how much that means. There are a few road warriors out there that spend a career taking on the toughest competition they can find and there are a few youngsters trying to get seasoning. However the vast majority of road players are and were trying to make a living. Getting in tough battles that really boil down to who is playing better on a given day just isn't smart when you are there to make money.

When a player refuses to gamble with another player it doesn't mean the other player is better, just that there is an unacceptable level of risk involved.

Hu

I agree.There were times when i didnt have much money and a game came along that was even money or i was 60/40 winner but couldnt play because i needed my money for responsiblities and couldnt take a chance.I wasnt scared of these guys,i just wasnt in the right position to be gambling financially unless it was a lock.I have been there and bet with my last money in pool or in cards and won and then the flipside losing my last bit of money and its a horrible feeling.

 

[Blackjack]

Just as a sidenote... I have received a couple of PM's from people that were upset because I left certain players off my list. I opened this thread with the statement that this is only from my perspective - and from the players I have witnessed -

This thread is not about my list - but YOURS. I don't expect anybody to agree with my lists, because its was made from my personal perspective.


Special note to kildegirl
Hal,
I know that you, Greenleaf, Ponzi, and Mosconi all sat together in the third grade , but being only half your age, I never had the opportunity to see Greenleaf play - at all. Not even once. As a matter of fact, Greenleaf died many years before I was born.

My list was made from my perspective and from watching the players that I chose. If I didn't see them play with my own eyes, they didn't go on my list. I'm sure Mingaud had a heck of a stroke and a heck of an aiming system, but he didn't make my list either.

I hope you take my message in good fun, and that you continue to assist players with your knowledge and expertise - and feel free to add your own list - I would be interested in reading your perspective of players over your many years of watching this game.

 

[ironman]

Danny,

Yours just happens to be the last post but in reply to all the posts of "so and so wouldn't play so and so" I'm not sure how much that means. There are a few road warriors out there that spend a career taking on the toughest competition they can find and there are a few youngsters trying to get seasoning. However the vast majority of road players are and were trying to make a living. Getting in tough battles that really boil down to who is playing better on a given day just isn't smart when you are there to make money.

When a player refuses to gamble with another player it doesn't mean the other player is better, just that there is an unacceptable level of risk involved.

Hu

Just to add a little,today is so different than say 20-25 years ago. There was more of a Gunslinger Attitude among road players in those days. Players were not as well known. Now, when someone snaps it off, everyone in every corner of the world knows about it in just a matter of hours. Things have changed drasticly.
Years ago, for example, had Bill Incordona opened place in Dallas as he has now, there would have been 25 Roadies there just hanging around waiting for the right moment. Now, everyone has a clock on everyone around before they get there.
Just to make a point, there was a guy in Colorado Springs years ago named Dick Henry who was at times a very good 9-ball player and subject to beat a lot of people. So, when Buddy came to town and Dick not real familiar with him, handed Buddy all he wanted for a couple of days forcing Buddy to get on the phone and get money wired to him. Eventually Dick figured out who Buddy was, and Buddy ended up getting to him. Had this happened in this day, Dick would ave known within a couple of hours.
In the old days, if a stranger walkd into your room looking for action, someone got on the phone to get someone to take a shot at him. Now they have to hand over their resume to play for $20, or at least that's the way it is here.
Everything changes. Not always for the better.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Just to add a little,today is so different than say 20-25 years ago.
Now, everyone has a clock on everyone around before they get there.

Now they have to hand over their resume to play for $20, or at least that's the way it is here.
Everything changes. Not always for the better.

And I see this latest trend continuing, don't you? The internet and cell phone are great for a lot of things, one of which is drying up the action.

People think nothing of blowing all kinds of money in a casino. And anymore, there are almost as many casionos around as there are pool halls. But with pool, there are people who wouldn't bet that water is wet.

I have buddies who say they lost $1,200.00 in one night at a casino. But they won't play pool for $10.00 A SET, not rack!