My lists of greatest players

[rayjay]

Shotmaker: Efren, Earl

Straight Pool: Mosconi, Moore

9-Ball: Efren, Earl, Buddy Hall

One Pocket: Efren

Gambler: Keith McCready

Legends: Wimpy Lassiter

All Around: Efren, Buddy Hall, Jimmy Moore

 

[sjm]

My top 5 great shotmakers of all-time
Luther Lassiter
Corey Deuel
Louie Roberts
Efren Reyes
Earl Strickland

I'll go with Luther Lassiter, Cole Dickson, Fong Pang Chao, Earl Strckland, and Louie Roberts

Straight Pool

My top 5 Straight Pool players of all time
Willie Mosconi
Steve Mizerak
Irving Crane
Gene Nagy
Mike Eufemia

Not having seen Greenleaf or Mosconi compete, I'll go with Irving Crane, Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Joe Balsis and Ray Martin

Straight Pool

My top 5 Nine Ball Players of All time
Buddy Hall
Earl Strickland
Luther Lassiter
Efren Reyes
Nick Varner

My picks are Mike Sigel, Earl Strickland, Ralf Souquet, Johnny Archer and Buddy Hall.

My 5 favorite players of all-time
Efren Reyes
Buddy Hall
Cisero Murphy
Louie Roberts
Mike Carella

My favorities are Irving Crane, Efren Reyes, Ralf Souquet, Mike Sigel, and Nick Varner.

My slant on this in red above.

 

[Drawman623]

Missing Grady

I would enjoy hearing Grady Mathews speak on this thread. He came to Gold Crown Billiards in Groton, CT last year and was asked who the best money player was. Though he qualified his answer a bit, he named Larry Lisciotti as having an uncanny ability to always make a game he could win.

I also want to mention onepocket.org and their annual hall of fame banquet held at the Derby City Classic every year. I met Geroge Rood at that event this year and heard first hand the stories that CeeBee relates in his post. George did beat them all for the cash. What a great opportunity to hear stories about who was who from the people who were there.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Here we go again.

STRAIGHT POOL
1. Mosconi
2. Mizerak
3. Crane and Caras

NINE BALL & TEN BALL
1. Parica
2. Efren, Worst and Lassiter
3. Sigel, Strickland and Hall

ROTATION
1. Efren
2. Parica

ONE POCKET
1. Ronnie
2. Efren
3. Ed Kelly, Jersey Red & Parica

BANKS
1. Eddie Taylor
2. Bugs
3. Vernon Elliott

EIGHT BALL
1. Efren


ALL AROUND
1. Efren
2. Kelly, Sigel and Mizerak
3. Buddy (if Banks is included)

Jay,

I'm amazed at how different those of us in pooldom can view players. Your lists are interesting.

I have two questions if you care to respond. Where would you rank Varner on the all around list, seeing how he's won 5 World Championships in 5 different disciplines?

I also have one comment that leads to question #2. You list Buddy at a tie for 3rd in 9 ball, but rate him 3rd on your all around list. That confuses me because Buddy really doesn't play much 14.1, he does bank great, however, he's never won a bank title and he's not really known for knocking down 8 ball titles. He is a very under-rated one pocket player. Are you basing his all around greatness on just 9 ball and one pocket?

Thanks Jay,
Terry

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[Danny Kuykendal]

Actually, regarding Dick Lane and straight pool, that was Tom Jennings who he had stuck 149 to-1 and Jennings came back and won. Lane was a tremendous 14.1 player. I practiced some with him in Austin in the late 70s. He would run a hundred or two every night.
Danny

 

[mjantti]

Blackjack, magnificent post that left me speechless to nominate my own favourites... Thanks for sharing your thoughts !

 

[Gerry]

Since you all covered most of the standards, I'm gonna stray a little with my list.

> Player I would call if I needed info on ANYTHING pertaining to the game..
Allen Hopkins....he knows everything.

> Player I would most like to hit the bar with for some beers and stories...
hands down tie Kieth McCready/Scott Frost.

> Players that I would want in my corner when I'm in action...
Grady, Buddy, Freddie.

> Player I would like to trade my tinman heart with...
Alex Pagulayan....I just watched him win the 10ball ring game on BCTV.

> I would like to see the table through this players eyes...
Efren

> Who would I trade strokes with?...
Cory Deuel

> Player whos 14.1 patterns I woud like to steal...
Dallas West...no question the sweetest stroke ever IMO.

> Player that has to teach me to bank...
tie again Freddie/Nick Varner.

thats all I got for now...

Gerry

 

[bud green]

Boston Shorty seems to have been left out. He had an incredible record. If Johnson City was the zenith of hustling, Shorty holds his own with anyone.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree that Mika has done enough to put himself on the top five of any list.

Hopkins seemed to be king of one pocket for a while in the early 90's and was one hell of a rotation and 14.1 player too. Might deserve some consideration along with Varner who has won major championships in just about very pool discipline.

 

[jay helfert]

Judging by your list I am surprised you didn't include Jose in your All-Around. Not saying I disagree, just curious as to why he is in 3 of your lists but wouldn't be considered top 3 in your all-around.

Btw, a local pro in my area once told me that if his life was on the line and needed a shot made to save it he would choose Parica to shoot it.

Just an oversight. he belongs on the All Around list under Efren. If I had to have someone shoot one ball for my life, it would be Worst, Lassiter or Sigel!

 

[jay helfert]

reply to jay helfert about hustling in louisana? i was in deritter la. and ft. polk the same time u were in the 70's . sparky

I was there in the 60's. Came back thru in the 70's for a day or so in each place. Just for old times sake. I did play a couple of guys in Baton Rouge that trip and spent several days at the Sports Palace in New Orleans.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,

I'm amazed at how different those of us in pooldom can view players. Your lists are interesting.

I have two questions if you care to respond. Where would you rank Varner on the all around list, seeing how he's won 5 World Championships in 5 different disciplines?

I also have one comment that leads to question #2. You list Buddy at a tie for 3rd in 9 ball, but rate him 3rd on your all around list. That confuses me because Buddy really doesn't play much 14.1, he does bank great, however, he's never won a bank title and he's not really known for knocking down 8 ball titles. He is a very under-rated one pocket player. Are you basing his all around greatness on just 9 ball and one pocket?

Thanks Jay,
Terry

Guys like Varner and Rempe were great All Around players. They both played high speed 9-Ball, One Pocket and 14.1. If I were to go a few names further it would include them and Jersey Red and Shorty, with Ervolino not far behind.

I included Buddy in the All Around based on his great skills at 9-Ball, Banks and One Pocket. I don't care if he won any Banks tourneys. He beat all the guys that did! Only Truman and Tony Fargo could beat him (sometimes) among the modern players. Varner and Sigel also played about the same speed of Banks as Buddy. Not many people know this.

By the way, it wasn't common knowledge but Buddy could run 100 balls if he cared too. A couple of Straight Pool champions got out of line with Buddy and paid dearly for the lesson. He can tell you about it. Parica could run hundreds as well. Did you know that? Mizerak tried to spot him 50 to 150. Nice try!

 

[eaglesfan44]

Jay how would Efren and Ronnie play one pocket in there prime in your opinion? Would there be a spot and if so who would give it? I can't see how anyone could play Efren even but then again I wasn't even alive when Ronnie was in his prime so I wouldn't know.

 

[kildegirl]

Best Players

Shotmaker: Reyes
(Never saw Lassiter get into a jam)

Straight Pool: Johnny Ervolino
(Best patterns and knowledge IMO)

9-Ball: Sigel
(He made it look effortless. He is also Efren's pick!)

One Pocket: Danny DiLiberto

Gambler: Toby Sweet

Legends: Lassiter, Willis, Jimmy Moore

Overall favorites: Jim Rempe
Thorsten Hohmann

how can you miss ralph greenleaf? he has all the records

 

[kildegirl]

Jay how would Efren and Ronnie play one pocket in there prime in your opinion? Would there be a spot and if so who would give it? I can't see how anyone could play Efren even but then again I wasn't even alive when Ronnie was in his prime so I wouldn't know.

efren, and i was there, charlie.

 

[Danny Kuykendal]

I personally don't think Ronnie Allen on his best day could have beaten Efren on a good day. Nothing against Ronnie's skills even when he was in his prime I don't think he had the cue ball control Efren has, or the shot making ability.

I watched a match fifteen years ago that pitted Grady against Efren in a $20,000 winner take all at Hard Times, race to 14. I sat inside the rail and was in heaven for two nights. Grady broke the first ball in and ran the first rack. That was the last game he won that night, Efren won the next nine, and followed up with a 5-3 win the following night. I felt bad for Grady, but quite honestly Efren made so few mistakes, it was incredible. I can't remember him missing an open shot on either night and I believe he took it easy on Grady the second night, respecting his reputation as a one pocket player.
When Ronnie and Efren have played in the past, I'm sure Ronnie was past his prime. Still at his Ronnie's best I would pick Efren.

Danny

 

[Terry Ardeno]

This whole thread is just too much fun!

I really, really enjoyed reading all these lists. In fact, my favorite posts are always relating to the pro players. Thanks Blackjack for starting this neat thread!

Top 5 Shotmakers
1. Luther Lassiter
2. Corey Deuel
3. Earl Strickland
4. Mike Sigel
5. Oliver Ortmann

Top Bankers
1. Eddie Taylor
2. Leonard Rucker
3. Truman Hogue
4. Gary Spaeth
5. Vernon Elliot
6. Billy Burge

Top One Pocket
1. Efren Reyes
2. Ronnie Allen
3. John Fitzpatrick
4. Grady Mathews
5. Shannon Daulton
6. Larry Johnson

Top 14.1
1. Willie Mosconi
2. Ralph Greenleaf
3. Frank Taberski
4. Irving Crane
5. Steve Mizerak
6. Alfredo DeOro
7. Jimmy Caras
8. Erwin Rudolph
9. Mike Sigel
10.Andrew Ponzi
11.Luther Lassiter
12. Oliver Ortman

Top 9 Ball
1. Luther Lassiter
2. Earl Strickland
3. Mike Sigel
4. Buddy Hall
5. Nick Varner

Top All-Around
1. Efren Reyes
2. Nick Varner
3. Alfredo DeOro
4. Allen Hopkins
5. Ed Kelly
6. Harold Worst
7. Larry Johnson
8. Mike Sigel
9. Jose Parica
10.Eddie Taylor

Top Commentators
1. Grady Mathews
2. Billy Incardona
3. Nick Varner
4. Buddy Hall
5. Danny DiLiberto
6. Freddie Bentivegna
7. Johnny Ervolino (R.I.P.)
8. Bill Staton (R.I.P.)
9. Jim Rempe
10.Jerry Forsyth

Most Creative
1. Efren Reyes
2. Corey Deuel
3. Ronnie Allen
4. Grady Mathews
5. Cliff Joyner

Favorite Players All-Time
1. Luther Lassiter
2. Earl Strickland
3. Fong Pang Chao
4. Irving Crane
5. Ralph Greenleaf
6. Shannon Daulton
7. Nick Varner
8. Willie Mosconi
9. Oliver Ortmann
10.Grady Mathews
11.Eddie Taylor
12.Mike Sigel
13. Buddy Hall
14. Dallas West
15. Joe Balsis

Favorite Active Players
1. Earl Strickland
2. Fong Pang Chao
3. Shannon Daulton
4. Oliver Ortmann
5. Evgeny Stalev
6. Efren Reys
7. Ralf Souquet
8. Allen Hopkins
9. Billy Incardona
10.Leonardo Andam
11.Howard Vickery
12. Thomas Engert
13. Kunihiko Takahashi
14. Rudolpho Luat
15. Corey Deuel

Favorite Personalities / Charactors
1. Grady Mathews
2. Billy Incardona
3. Freddie Bentivegna
4. Efren Reyes
5. Hubert Cokes (R.I.P.)

 

[rossaroni]

how can you miss ralph greenleaf? he has all the records

It also surprised me to hardly see Greenleaf's name mentioned in this thread. He was clearly the best player of his era, and his era may have seen the peak of pool in America. I think many people's list may be of players they have seen play though.

P.S. I don't know if he has all the records, or any for that matter.

 

[Marvel]

Those are my lists -

WOW!


This is the greatest post I've ever read on this forum!

Thank's Blackjack!


BTW, were your names listed in an order, or was it just 5 names in no particular order?
Just curious, as you say about Efren's 9-ball: "He is definitely, without a doubt the best that I have ever seen."
Did you mean from the 'modern era', or all time? Efren is at fourth place if listed in order..


I'm too tired to give my (correct) lists now, but if my life was on the line and I had to choose a guy to shoot a shot to save my life, I would definitely choose Mikko Jantti for that task
No! Seriously, it would be Mikko Jantti..

 

[Blackjack]

WOW!


This is the greatest post I've ever read on this forum!

Thank's Blackjack!


BTW, were your names listed in an order, or was it just 5 names in no particular order?
Just curious, as you say about Efren's 9-ball: "He is definitely, without a doubt the best that I have ever seen."
Did you mean from the 'modern era', or all time? Efren is at fourth place if listed in order..


I'm too tired to give my (correct) lists now, but if my life was on the line and I had to choose a guy to shoot a shot to save my life, I would definitely choose Mikko Jantti for that task
No! Seriously, it would be Mikko Jantti..

Marcus,

This is how I made my 9 ball list.

IMO, Buddy Hall was the best 9 ball player I have ever seen, ever played, ever learned from. He owned every table he played on during the 1970's and 1980's, and I have modeled so much of my game after him and he has been such an influence to me and so many other players, I had no choice but to put Buddy first on my list.

Then I had Earl second. Quite possibly the player with the most natural ability to play the game. 5 U.S. Opens, 5 World Championships. Countless pro tour titles. I've been watching Earl for almost 25 years - he was a threat to win the 1984 US Open, and he's still a threat at the Open this year. I had to bow to the master (don't you ever tell him I said that) but I had to put Earl as #2 on my list.

Luther Lassiter was such a great 9 ball player in his day that nobody would get on the table with him at Johnson City. Nobody includes everybody you can name form that era on everybody's other lists. Luther was the man, so he gets my nod at #3, it was because I put Luther in that spot that Louie Roberts does not appear in my top 5 in 9 ball.

Efren comes in at #4 - which is in no way disrespectful, because IMO, he is the best all around player the world has ever seen. His championship record does not compare to the people listed above him, but I do believe that he is the best out of all of them. (If that makes any sense).

#5 was easy... Nick Varner is the only player to ever win the US Open back to back. He either won or finished second in the World Championships several times, and he rounds out my list and I notice that all of my top 5 is from the south... hmmmm. I believe it was 1989, Nick Varner won 9 of 13 events on the Pro Tour. That's unbelievable to explain to the younger players of today, but many of us watched that in awe as it unfolded.

Sorry Markus, Mikko didn't make any of my lists. Maybe someday!

I hope you play well this week at the US Open! Congratulations on your nice 11-5 win over Ramil Gallego yesterday!