MY VARNEY NIGHTMARE unbelievable
- Thread starter cincyman
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I think a discount should always be given that is directly proportional to the amount of time that a cue is late. This is both reasonable and fair.
For example, if a cue is promised within 12 months, and it takes 18 months to complete, there should be a 50% discount (6 months late / 12 months promised = .50 = 50% late = 50% discount). Or if a cue is promised within 6 months, and it takes 8 months, there is a 33% discount. And yes, if it takes twice as long as was promised, it should be free. There is no excuse for it taking twice as long as it should.
This type of agreement would force cuemakers be more honest and realistic about the delivery time (maybe even overestimate a bit which is ok), and it would motivate them to actually honor the promises that they are eager to make, but not to keep.
Maybe it's time for customers to start insisting on this type of agreement in writing before entering into any transaction with a cuemaker. The formula can easily be tweaked to one that is agreeable to both parties. If for example you think the above discount is too steep, you could have the percentage of discount only be half of the percentage of time that the cue was late (Ex: 20% late = 10% discount).
I hope Mr Varney offers this type of discount (or an immediate refund) to all of the many customers that have been waiting for FAR longer than was promised, and I hope that those customers insist on it. It's only right.
For example, if a cue is promised within 12 months, and it takes 18 months to complete, there should be a 50% discount (6 months late / 12 months promised = .50 = 50% late = 50% discount). Or if a cue is promised within 6 months, and it takes 8 months, there is a 33% discount. And yes, if it takes twice as long as was promised, it should be free. There is no excuse for it taking twice as long as it should.
This type of agreement would force cuemakers be more honest and realistic about the delivery time (maybe even overestimate a bit which is ok), and it would motivate them to actually honor the promises that they are eager to make, but not to keep.
Maybe it's time for customers to start insisting on this type of agreement in writing before entering into any transaction with a cuemaker. The formula can easily be tweaked to one that is agreeable to both parties. If for example you think the above discount is too steep, you could have the percentage of discount only be half of the percentage of time that the cue was late (Ex: 20% late = 10% discount).
I hope Mr Varney offers this type of discount (or an immediate refund) to all of the many customers that have been waiting for FAR longer than was promised, and I hope that those customers insist on it. It's only right.
manwon said:
I agree it does not excuse his behavior. Anyone waiting for cues should get a full refund or a cue, quick. I also fully support threads that make people aware of the issues, and also serve to hopefully deter such conduct in the future.
However, if it is true that he is having some mental/emotional issues, I also think it's sort of crass to take a lot of joy in mocking him, and almost revel in making fun of him. I'm not much of one for schadenfreude. That's how some of these posts come across to me.
But maybe I'm just being overly-sensitive, as I grew up with what I now recognize as an inordinate number of relatives and friends that had pretty serious problems like that. Often it takes a pretty abrupt, even quite harsh, kick in the butt to get the person headed in the right direction, but open and public mockery is rarely the correct method.
WheatCues
Banned
snowmon34 said:
I was trying to bring a little lightheartedness to this lynching.....
So on that note.....
I do NOT want to get involved with this for many reasons I just thought the avatar was cute and wanted to lighten the mood !
I'll stay out of this thread becasue I have zero business in it !
- Eddie Wheat
Obviously Cincy is owed the cue hes expecting plus refund. Not just any old cue off KVs wall. Im never gonna be able to take this dude off if he dosn't get his cue. CMON KV get on the ball son!
WheatCues
Banned
ribdoner said:
Whatever it takes to keep the customer happy and that includes partial and/or full refunds plus the cue if neccesary and whatever else it takes to save face and avoid negative feelings regardless as long as you are being completely honest with the customer at all costs !!!
I have had certain delays and I suggested and chose to give back partial refunds under certain situations as well and refunding a full deposit for a customer who was evicted from his house with a newborn and could use the money more than a cue !!!
This is a customer service industry and I think the most important thing you can do is stay in communication with your customers and let them know if there are delays or problems with getting their order completed when expected....
Anyways.. I hope I answered you question Adam.....
- Eddie Wheat
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From now on why don't you guys (customers and cue makers) just escrow the deal?
Get a middle man that both of you can trust, the middle man is informed of the entire deal from both parties (for verification) and the customer sends this guy the $, when the cue is complete it will be sent to the middle man, at which point he will ship the cue to the customer and ship the $$ to the cue maker.
If some part of the agreement isn't held up from the cue maker then the client gets his money back, if the agreement isn't held up from the customer then the customer gets his money back, minus an opt-out fee (paid to the cue maker) that will have been discussed before the money was sent.
I would do it with people I know for a small juice.
As far as this ordeal, I don't know Mr. Varney's situation, so I really can't speak on it, but I do hope for his own sake (and yours of course) that he comes in here and straightens it out.
Get a middle man that both of you can trust, the middle man is informed of the entire deal from both parties (for verification) and the customer sends this guy the $, when the cue is complete it will be sent to the middle man, at which point he will ship the cue to the customer and ship the $$ to the cue maker.
If some part of the agreement isn't held up from the cue maker then the client gets his money back, if the agreement isn't held up from the customer then the customer gets his money back, minus an opt-out fee (paid to the cue maker) that will have been discussed before the money was sent.
I would do it with people I know for a small juice.
As far as this ordeal, I don't know Mr. Varney's situation, so I really can't speak on it, but I do hope for his own sake (and yours of course) that he comes in here and straightens it out.
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WheatCues
Banned
AZE said:
This is a classic example why reputation and credibility is EVERYTHING !!!
We should NOT have the need to use a middle-man and extra expenses for a one-on-one personal business that has been more successful than not over the years !
Just my opinion......
- Eddie Wheat
Rocket354 said:
But maybe I'm just being overly-sensitive, as I grew up with what I now recognize as an inordinate number of relatives and friends that had pretty serious problems like that. Often it takes a pretty abrupt, even quite harsh, kick in the butt to get the person headed in the right direction, but open and public mockery is rarely the correct method.[/QUOTE]
.[/QUOTE]
I agree everything we do is based upon personal decisions, kinda like this scenario. During the 1970's I was addicted to drugs, and I lost some good friends. In addition I spent some time in jail, due to bad decisions I made and to my drug abuse. While I was there I made the decision to change my life, and I found religion and then I got out and went back to the drugs. One day I was looking in the mirror and I had a flash of my life up to that point, and it made me sick, ashamed, and disgusted with what I saw. That day I made a decision to change my life, so the next day I joined the US Army.
Basic training was a *****, I was drug sick and I thought what the hell am I doing. One of the Drill Sergeants saw that I was having both physical and mental issues adjusting and he pulled me aside after that days training and told me that he knew what I was going through. He also told me that it would not be easy but never yo quit, and as long as I kept fighting and doing the right things he would help me through these rough times, but he also told me I had to act like a man, and stand up and that only I can learn to respect myself. Well, I made it through Basic training, and the Military gave me the Values and integrity I live by to this day. I also credit the Military for my personal rebirth, because I would not be here typing if I had not made the decision to change myself for the better. Everything I am, is directly due to that Drill Sergeant and his faith in me.
So then I met my Beautiful wife Jennie, while I was stationed at Ft. Stewart, GA. This along with our Daughter gave me additional strength and reasons to never look back at my past. Then my Daughter became disabled due to illness that attacked her brain. Now it would have been very easy to make excuses fall back into my old way of life, but I had to use my anger, sadness, and heart break to become strong. Because if I feel apart who would care for my family, the answer is easy NO ONE, it was my responsibility and only mine. So my wife and I found ways to keep our family together, my daughter has been cared for our home her entire life, which could end anytime. But, even the fear of this can give some one strength and life can go on, and I thank God every day she is still here, and every day is nothing but a blessing.
Well then life has gone forward, in 1999 I became ill, for some unknown reason I could not sleep. For seven days I did not sleep, and on the 7th day, I went to the Military medical facility for help. I was diagnosed with Post traumatic Stress syndrome (PTSD), at this time I had 18 years on active duty in the US. Army. I was told that I would need to be on medication to help me sleep and to help deal with my problems. To this day, I have never been able to stop taking the medication, it has brought me back form beyond. I retired from the US Army in 2003 and continued to fight the good fight and do the right things, for my family First and for myself respect always.
I now own a small pool hall, I am learning to build custom cues and I take pride in everything I do. Maybe that is why I have a very low tolerance for bull $hit, maybe that is why I find no excuse for bad behavior, maybe all of this is why I think integrity and honesty are the most important things that any of us have. You certainly have a right to your opinion, and I can even understand how you feel, but try walking a mile in some else's shoes before you judge another.
Enclosing, I must say that I love this forum, there certainly is no better forum of its kind. I know that I rub many people the wrong way, however, it is certainly not because I want anything from anyone here, I only want to be part of this wonderful place. I do not want Money, reputation points, or any other form of ego stroking. I only want this forum to continue to be the place it is. It has given me a place to get away, some times it is my only escape, because I still do not always sleep well. I value the friends I have made here and all I have learned here, it also helps give me the strength to do the right thing day after day!!!!
I hope you understand where I am coming from now!!
Have a good night!!!!!
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WheatCues said:
I actually agree with your opinion whole heartedly. I run a business that's very similar to a cue maker's. A client comes to me with a request for a custom piece, I quote them the price for the expected work (+shipping, etc) and give them a time-frame. My time-frame includes the "what ifs" and because of this I have not once had an item run late, in-fact I am more often having to stay on-top of my clients for pictures or info for the work (not that I mind at all), and am constantly being thanked for my fast turn-around... That is just business as I see it. If I don't deliver what I say I am going to deliver, and WHEN I say I am going to deliver it, I can't expect to make any money, because my reputation IS my business, I am not the only design/print guy in the world.
That being said, the escrow isn't a bad idea because the bottom line is people are still going to order cues from cue makers that will sometimes end up being way paste date, and cue makers will run into clients who give them too many problems, it's just how this little world is... so escrowing is a solution that makes it a bit easier, and makes someone else money lol :grin-square:
a bump, to add some truth to this thread
I haven't posted much but I can definately add, i had not mentioned this before the threads started but it needs to be said on kevins behalf...........Just to add,
I saw him 3 weeks at a pool touney near charlotte, a small sunday tournament and he was there( He usually is). he tried to sell me a sneaky pete, he had some story behind it being for someone local who changed their mind LOLOL!
of course i declined because i had him do a repair on a cue i had about 10 years ago and it fell apart within a year and also i had a J/b he made that i did sell on AZ and he ended up pming me to take it off and said it was not " a good example of his current work" but he would not take it in as partial trade for a new cue . I guess he forgot me in a sea of others he has ripped off. i didn't forget.
if anyone would like me to ask him anything pm me and i will ask him when he is around here trying to sell cues that he probably owes others.
I haven't posted much but I can definately add, i had not mentioned this before the threads started but it needs to be said on kevins behalf...........Just to add,
I saw him 3 weeks at a pool touney near charlotte, a small sunday tournament and he was there( He usually is). he tried to sell me a sneaky pete, he had some story behind it being for someone local who changed their mind LOLOL!
of course i declined because i had him do a repair on a cue i had about 10 years ago and it fell apart within a year and also i had a J/b he made that i did sell on AZ and he ended up pming me to take it off and said it was not " a good example of his current work" but he would not take it in as partial trade for a new cue . I guess he forgot me in a sea of others he has ripped off. i didn't forget. if anyone would like me to ask him anything pm me and i will ask him when he is around here trying to sell cues that he probably owes others.
I am a contractor so I understand the value of putting things in writing. Maybe a future solution is to get a contract signed with a finish date and detail consequences that follow the violation of that date.
I like watching judge shows, and the judges always tell people to GET IT IN WRITING. If you can't because the selling party refuses, you know what your dealing with.
I like watching judge shows, and the judges always tell people to GET IT IN WRITING. If you can't because the selling party refuses, you know what your dealing with.
Except for the three that you might gain, 30 will walk the other way. :wink:WheatCues said:
Craig
From one vet to another - I will say something that you never get tired of hearing :
Thank you for your service to our country. I'm glad we have people like you posting on this forum.
As far as the cue situation, I know what its like to be on both ends of the deal. I waited 2 and a half years for one guy to make me a cue and finally said to hell with it. Sometimes I go by the guy's website and see the finished cue that he has yet to sell and I get a chuckle, even though he refused to refund my initial deposit.
I understood that there was a waiting list going into the deal - but I was promised 9 months, then a year, then a year and a half, then 2 years. When it became 30+ months and he still wasn't finished, he told me he was very busy and that it might be another 6 months.
I could have planted a tree, waited for it to grow, chopped it down and made another cue in the amount of time it took him to eventually finish the cue. The cue was finally completed 38 months after I paid my initial deposit. By then, I had already told him where to shove it when it was completed.
On the other end, I also know what its like to get backlogged on work. It sucks when you're trying to satisfy multiple orders for multitudes of people. You hope that everybody will be understanding, but not everybody will - it's not realistic to believe that you can please everybody. Nobody can please everybody all the time.
In this situation, I like the cuemaker and I like the customer that is at wits end. I just hope that both of them are able to communicate peacefully so that they can come to a resolution. If that is not the case, then IMO, the customer is always right. That's just how it goes.
From one vet to another - I will say something that you never get tired of hearing :
Thank you for your service to our country. I'm glad we have people like you posting on this forum.
As far as the cue situation, I know what its like to be on both ends of the deal. I waited 2 and a half years for one guy to make me a cue and finally said to hell with it. Sometimes I go by the guy's website and see the finished cue that he has yet to sell and I get a chuckle, even though he refused to refund my initial deposit.
I understood that there was a waiting list going into the deal - but I was promised 9 months, then a year, then a year and a half, then 2 years. When it became 30+ months and he still wasn't finished, he told me he was very busy and that it might be another 6 months.
I could have planted a tree, waited for it to grow, chopped it down and made another cue in the amount of time it took him to eventually finish the cue. The cue was finally completed 38 months after I paid my initial deposit. By then, I had already told him where to shove it when it was completed.
On the other end, I also know what its like to get backlogged on work. It sucks when you're trying to satisfy multiple orders for multitudes of people. You hope that everybody will be understanding, but not everybody will - it's not realistic to believe that you can please everybody. Nobody can please everybody all the time.
In this situation, I like the cuemaker and I like the customer that is at wits end. I just hope that both of them are able to communicate peacefully so that they can come to a resolution. If that is not the case, then IMO, the customer is always right. That's just how it goes.
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