My X-Shaft warped, no warranty!

[tedkaufman]

I'm actually very surprised by the response of the Tiger company and of Cory here. It would not cost Tiger much to replace this shaft, and the good will would be well worth that cost. Instead, if I counted correctly, no less than 5 posters said they were considering a Tiger X shaft, and now they will go elsewhere. Needless to say, the original poster will too. So make that 6.

Hello Tiger ... by saving $20-30, the company lost a good bit more in sales and lost much in repute. Is it worth blowing off a customer to save a few bucks?

 

[BrooklynJay]

I'm actually very surprised by the response of the Tiger company and of Cory here. It would not cost Tiger much to replace this shaft, and the good will would be well worth that cost. Instead, if I counted correctly, no less than 5 posters said they were considering a Tiger X shaft, and now they will go elsewhere. Needless to say, the original poster will too. So make that 6.

Hello Tiger ... by saving $20-30, the company lost a good bit more in sales and lost much in repute. Is it worth blowing off a customer to save a few bucks?

yeah but if every numbskull who warps their shaft by storing it improperly (and this statement isn't a reflection of the original poster - i'm just saying in general) figures out that all that have to do is grip on this forum to get a free replacement then what?

 

[CrownCityCorey]

Warranty Info

Hello Folks,

As we looked over our warranty information online, I could see how someone might misunderstand the warpage issue (though it was clearly stated in the FAQ's http://www.tigerproducts.com/faq.htm)

To help prevent this misunderstanding in the future, our warranty info has been updated to clearly state that "warpage" is not a defect nor is it covered by warranty.

You may find our warranty information here http://www.tigerproducts.com/guarantee.htm

Nevertheless, we have maintained one of the most liberal warranties and return policies in the industry for many years!

It is fantastic that a company like McDermott feels so secure in covering warpage doing so under their warranty. Mind you, they are a much larger company than us and since they do outsource to Asia, they have a much lower cost basis and huge profit margins. Basically, they can afford it.

You have my apologies for any confusion or misunderstanding.

 

[Flex]

Hello Folks,

As we looked over our warranty information online, I could see how someone might misunderstand the warpage issue (though it was clearly stated in the FAQ's http://www.tigerproducts.com/faq.htm)

To help prevent this misunderstanding in the future, our warranty info has been updated to clearly state that "warpage" is not a defect nor is it covered by warranty.

You may find our warranty information here http://www.tigerproducts.com/guarantee.htm

Nevertheless, we have maintained one of the most liberal warranties and return policies in the industry for many years!

It is fantastic that a company like McDermott feels so secure in covering warpage doing so under their warranty. Mind you, they are a much larger company than us and since they do outsource to Asia, they have a much lower cost basis and huge profit margins. Basically, they can afford it.

You have my apologies for any confusion or misunderstanding.

Very interesting...

Although you acknowlege "I could see how someone might misunderstand the warpage issue" you don't cut your formerly satisfied customer any slack.

It seems to me you are being "penny wise and pound foolish" as my father used to say...

At least I know where your company stands on the issues, and I won't hesitate to tell those who may ask me for my opinion on which aftermarket shafts are considered the best, including their warranties...

Just wondering... how often do Tiger X shafts warp?

Flex

 

[MattRDavis]

As we looked over our warranty information online, I could see how someone might misunderstand the warpage issue (though it was clearly stated in the FAQ's http://www.tigerproducts.com/faq.htm)

To help prevent this misunderstanding in the future, our warranty info has been updated to clearly state that "warpage" is not a defect nor is it covered by warranty.

So does this mean you're replacing the shaft?

I understand that warpage generally isn't a manufacturing defect, but to warp after only four hours of play indicates that either the cue was warped when he purchased it or that it wasn't structurally sound enough to withstand being used.

 

[Da Poet]

This is an unfortunate situation for everyone involved but maybe it is avoidable.


Perhaps smaller cuemakers could crunch some numbers and for an additional price, offer an "extended warrantee" to cover warpage?

 

[X Breaker]

It is fantastic that a company like McDermott feels so secure in covering warpage doing so under their warranty. Mind you, they are a much larger company than us and since they do outsource to Asia, they have a much lower cost basis and huge profit margins. Basically, they can afford it.

I did not know McDermott outsourced to Asia. I thought they say they make everything in the USA.

 

[Mystick Cue Fan]

Very interesting...

Although you acknowlege "I could see how someone might misunderstand the warpage issue" you don't cut your formerly satisfied customer any slack.

It seems to me you are being "penny wise and pound foolish" as my father used to say...

At least I know where your company stands on the issues, and I won't hesitate to tell those who may ask me for my opinion on which aftermarket shafts are considered the best, including their warranties...

Just wondering... how often do Tiger X shafts warp?

Flex

All you guys are way too harsh on Corey. If any of you sold a cue on the for sale forum and everything was fine with the cue, then a month later your customer calls you and tells you that the shaft is warped. What would you do? Offer to have a new shaft made? Not knowing where or what the shaft has been through. You would say sorry it was straight when I sent it, and it was straight when you received it. I bet all those saying "I was thinking about ordering a Tiger X shaft...bla bla bla..." weren't even considering getting one. Now that this comes up and you just don't like the way it was handled you try to throw in a snide remark to let everyone know that you won't even think of getting one now. I'm sure they aren't losing any sleep over your potential business. I know for one, that tiger has always made a great product and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to order anything from tiger. Corey and the tiger company are doing the right thing. Well, I might get more bad rep than good rep for this post but I don't care. Tiger doesn't deserve to be bashed because some guy warped his shaft and wants a new one.

Tony

 

[Mystick Cue Fan]

So does this mean you're replacing the shaft?

I understand that warpage generally isn't a manufacturing defect, but to warp after only four hours of play indicates that either the cue was warped when he purchased it or that it wasn't structurally sound enough to withstand being used.

Or it was left laying next to a heater. SO many variables here. It doesn't indicate anything. All it indicates is that no one but the owner knows what happened to the shaft. I can feel the bad rep coming.....

Tony

 

[Bamacues]

AFAIK, Mcdermott is the only company that will replace warped shafts. I have heard of one or two custom makers that might, but the vast majority of them also state they warranty against manufacturing defects etc not as a result of abuse or warpage.

Kelly

Viking now offers the same lifetime warranty against warpage as McDermott does.

 

[Flex]

All you guys are way too harsh on Corey. If any of you sold a cue on the for sale forum and everything was fine with the cue, then a month later your customer calls you and tells you that the shaft is warped. What would you do? Offer to have a new shaft made? Not knowing where or what the shaft has been through. You would say sorry it was straight when I sent it, and it was straight when you received it. I bet all those saying "I was thinking about ordering a Tiger X shaft...bla bla bla..." weren't even considering getting one. Now that this comes up and you just don't like the way it was handled you try to throw in a snide remark to let everyone know that you won't even think of getting one now. I'm sure they aren't losing any sleep over your potential business. I know for one, that tiger has always made a great product and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to order anything from tiger. Corey and the tiger company are doing the right thing. Well, I might get more bad rep than good rep for this post but I don't care. Tiger doesn't deserve to be bashed because some guy warped his shaft and wants a new one.

Tony

You sound like you're a friend of theirs (I have no idea if you are, it just sounds that way.)

As for not getting my business, I can assure you that as of now I definitely won't be considering getting one of their shafts, unless they improve their warranty.

As for them doing the right thing, I wish it were true, but from a public relations standpoint, the best thing they could do for themselves is acknowledge that sometimes these things happen, and they'll be very happy to replace the shaft. It would go a very, very long way to building good will among current and potential customers.

Whenever someone sells something, they take a risk, as does the purchaser. In the case of a no-name selling something, it's basically a given that the buyer better beware. With an established business, or cuemaker, I'd respectfully suggest they should do whatever it takes to keep everyone, to whatever extent possible, happy with them.

Usually, the worst thing that can happen to a company is bad publicity of the sort that has come about here. If they had just replaced the shaft, after determining that it hadn't been intentionally abused, they would be sitting pretty, and they'd probably have a happy customer on here giving glowing reports about them.

Mystick, it seems you know all about the specifics of this case, perhaps more than has been explained on this forum, for you have clearly taken Tiger's side on this. Maybe you could fill us all in on how "some guy warped his shaft and wants a new one."

BTW, no negative Reps are headed your way, at least not from me.

Flex

 

[Mystick Cue Fan]

You sound like you're a friend of theirs (I have no idea if you are, it just sounds that way.)

As for not getting my business, I can assure you that as of now I definitely won't be considering getting one of their shafts, unless they improve their warranty.

As for them doing the right thing, I wish it were true, but from a public relations standpoint, the best thing they could do for themselves is acknowledge that sometimes these things happen, and they'll be very happy to replace the shaft. It would go a very, very long way to building good will among current and potential customers.

Whenever someone sells something, they take a risk, as does the purchaser. In the case of a no-name selling something, it's basically a given that the buyer better beware. With an established business, or cuemaker, I'd respectfully suggest they should do whatever it takes to keep everyone, to whatever extent possible, happy with them.

Usually, the worst thing that can happen to a company is bad publicity of the sort that has come about here. If they had just replaced the shaft, after determining that it hadn't been intentionally abused, they would be sitting pretty, and they'd probably have a happy customer on here giving glowing reports about them.

Mystick, it seems you know all about the specifics of this case, perhaps more than has been explained on this forum, for you have clearly taken Tiger's side on this. Maybe you could fill us all in on how "some guy warped his shaft and wants a new one."

BTW, no negative Reps are headed your way, at least not from me.

Flex

Not a friend of theirs and I don't know the specifics. But All I know is that if the shaft was indeed warped when he received it, it should have been sent back immediately. And properly refunded. It just doesn't seem that way. Seems as if the shaft was straight and then the shaft all of a sudden went crooked. As far as tiger goes and you or thers not buying from them because of this, They still haven't lost my business and I will always recommend them to anyone that needs something from them. If this has lost your business that's fine. But what will make you change your mind? Something free? How did all of you feel about Mr. Varney when he made the death threat? Like you would never go near one of his cues. Then he gives away a cue and he has great customer service.....give me a break. Tiger is not wishy-washy. They stood by their warranty and don't do different for anyone else. If they say they won't refund ABall, then they won't refund anyone for the same cause. They don't pick and choose they stick tho their business. I commend tiger for always sticking to policy, not bending the rules for anyone and keeping a great customer base.

Tony

 

[MattRDavis]

I commend tiger for always sticking to policy, not bending the rules for anyone and keeping a great customer base.

Even though their policy was admittedly vague and, in fact, amended to prevent further instances?

As we looked over our warranty information online, I could see how someone might misunderstand the warpage issue

 

[Flex]

Not a friend of theirs and I don't know the specifics. But All I know is that if the shaft was indeed warped when he received it, it should have been sent back immediately. And properly refunded. It just doesn't seem that way. Seems as if the shaft was straight and then the shaft all of a sudden went crooked. As far as tiger goes and you or thers not buying from them because of this, They still haven't lost my business and I will always recommend them to anyone that needs something from them. If this has lost your business that's fine. But what will make you change your mind?

A guarantee against warpage would go a long way to convincing me of their good will.


Something free?

How did all of you feel about Mr. Varney when he made the death threat? Like you would never go near one of his cues. Then he gives away a cue and he has great customer service.....give me a break.

Not planning on doing business with him either.


Tiger is not wishy-washy. They stood by their warranty and don't do different for anyone else. If they say they won't refund ABall, then they won't refund anyone for the same cause. They don't pick and choose they stick tho their business.

I commend tiger for always sticking to policy, not bending the rules for anyone and keeping a great customer base.

Well, they lost at least one paying customer over this. Perhaps they'll revise their warranty to include warpage, like McDermott and Viking have done.

Tony

My comments are in blue.

 

[MattRDavis]

Also, as a side note, I've nothing against Tiger; I've never had the opportunity to use their products, nor would this thread or any other deter me from doing so if I found one that I was interested in.

I just interpret this situation as something of a bureaucratic **** up where the initial party may have done a poor job of explaining the situation to an operator who was heading out to lunch when the phone rang. It looked to be under control until Corey posted that the warranty information was amended to prevent further confusion which, to me, indicates that it was not clearly written to begin with.

Anyhow, Corey, no offense intended; I work in customer service and I know how these things snowball from an issue that may or may not be your fault into a verbal witch hunt. It's not going to prevent me from ordering from you or recommending you to people who may need a product that you offer; by far, I've seen more positive praise about your company than critical.

 

[ShootingArts]

how long have you had the shaft?

This is only a matter of personal curiosity since I can easily see both sides of this issue but how long have you actually had the shaft? Did you buy it new or from someone else? Often there is a presumption of a defect or circumstances before a buyer received the item if a product has problems very shortly after receiving it whereas if the end user has had the product for months with no earlier complaints it is generally considered that there were no problems or defects when the product was delivered.

I am not going to touch on the issue of their exact warranty since I haven't read it for myself.

Hu

According to the Tiger X-shaft warranty: "All Tiger® manufactured "finished" Products are warranted for life against defects in materials and workmanship.

If any product fails within its useful lifetime to the original retail end purchaser the item will be repaired or replaced at no charge. "

Well, my X-shaft warped. The shaft has maybe 4 hours of play on it. I never exposed it to any extreme temperatures or levels of moisture. My question is: Isn't this warpage, as stated above in the warranty, considered a defect in materials and/or workmanship? I contacted a Tiger products rep about it, and this is what he said: "Sorry for the misunderstanding, but warpage is not covered under warranty." I guess I want to express my concern as to the validity of this warranty. I mean if the ferrule fell off, I can replace that for like $20. If the shaft warps, all I am left with is the tip, a ferrule, and a joint collar . That sucks!!

 

[cueaddicts]

"Warpage" is kind of like "hit".....it's very subjective. There are threads on here ad naseum about what consitutes a shaft being considered warped. Everyone seems to have differing opinions. IMO, 5-10 thousandths warpage over time is totally acceptable and expected. Hell, my playing shaft is out more than that. Over time (1 year....2 years....10 years) cuemakers simply cannot warrantee a shaft staying straight. With the best preparation and wood selection, how it is stored, where it is geographically, use/abuse, will play a role in whether it stays straight.

[McDermott and Viking are probably not banking on many people using the warrantee either....if so, they wouldn't offer it. They are making their money on volume and knowing the customer base and their tendencies...i.e. probably not many being picky enough to return a shaft for ever-so-slight warpage.]

However, on a brand new purchase and the item is just received, IMO any customer should have the opportunity for a replacement. Who knows if that was the case here, though?

Aside....we recently had a customer who not satisfied with one of his two shafts on a brand new Gilbert. Andy looked at the shaft when it was returned and there was only 3 thousanths runout !! Needless to say, Andy made another one, shipped it to the customer, and everyone was happy.

There's customer service and then there's customer service......

 

[Flex]

Aside....we recently had a customer who not satisfied with one of his two shafts on a brand new Gilbert. Andy looked at the shaft when it was returned and there was only 3 thousanths runout !! Needless to say, Andy made another one, shipped it to the customer, and everyone was happy.

There's customer service and then there's customer service......

This is the kind of news that goes a long way to building a loyal customer base...

 

[AuntyDan]

Different policy needed for laminated shafts?

2 quick comments - Firstly isn't it logical that laminated shafts be warrantied differently than solid wood ones? A solid wood shaft has only a few possible defects that will cause warping, but there are a lot more possible errors in laminated products. If the stresses caused by the glues/resins are not evenly distributed that can cause warpage over time entirely independent of the wood warping itself. (E.G. Not all the glue/resin evenly distributed, poor alignment of the shaft wood grains, shaft wood sections not machined properly flat at their mating surfaces etc.) I would not personally like to buy a complex laminated shaft that the manufacturer did not warranty against warpage.

Out of curiosity can Corey tell us how long Tiger "age" fully assembled shafts to ensure they have been manufactured correctly?

The second issue is that, as a consumer, if you know you have not done anything to cause the damage it is very galling to be effectively called a liar by the manufacturer in such circumstances. Whilst it is perfectly reasonable as a business to decline to service the customer under warranty using the "your word against mine" defence, it is also perfectly reasonable as a customer to be left with a very negative impression of a company in such circumstances.

Fortunately this has only ever happened to me once for a major purchase, but I know I will never do any business with that particular manufacturer again nor can I ever recommend them to anyone else.

 

[cueaddicts]

2 quick comments - Firstly isn't it logical that laminated shafts be warrantied differently than solid wood ones? A solid wood shaft has only a few possible defects that will cause warping, but there are a lot more possible errors in laminated products.

ABSOLUTELY, IMO. But I think you have it backwards.

The whole point in laminating a shaft is to be able to use lower grade materials in a process that should keep it from warping....theoretically. In reality....I'm not so sure this holds true.

Sean (seem lots of warped laminated shafts....both radially and flat)