Need pointers on operation of cnc setup

chumscustoms

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes this is a very loaded question
I'm not looking for huge answers, looking for good direction.
I have a bloodworth cnc setup.
It has the motors and air spindle and some other accesories.
I need to get this operating in a bad way.
I what to get it working or move into a user friendly machine.
Looking to do simple inlays. Diamonds, split cuts etc.
I also have the table saw shaft machine that bloodworth made. If I can use the same programs to run it I would like that.

The original users used bobcad. Mach 3.
I am not to familiar with cnc stuff. But more than willing to learn. Also willing to compensate someone if they can help me move forward with this.
 

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The table saw machine uses simple G Codes that are easy to write on notepad. I can shoot you some of those if you like.

If it still has the ole Xylotex controller MAKE SURE ALL THE STEPPERS ARE PLUGGED IN IF YOU APPLY POWER OR YOU CAN SMOKE THE BOARD.

That's what I did and spent 800(?) or so on new steppers, Gecko, ect...

ALSO, air spindles need CLEAN DRY air.
 
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The table saw machine uses simple G Codes that are easy to write on notepad. I can shoot you some of those if you like.

If it still has the ole Xylotex controller MAKE SURE ALL THE STEPPERS ARE PLUGGED IN IF YOU APPLY POWER OR YOU CAN SMOKE THE BOARD.

That's what I did and spent 800(?) or so on new steppers, Gecko, ect...

ALSO, air spindles need CLEAN DRY air.

You didn't lose anything.
That Xylotex board is unreliable at best .
It loses steps when it gets hot .
I say chuck it now and get the Gecko.
 
It looks like a gantry style with the Y and Z on it with a moving X bed. The steppers look like 4 wire ... they have shafts on the back ... maybe for dampers.

You need a stepper motor controller.... maybe gecko 540 or similar. Pick up a good used Dell Optiplex.... with windows XP.... they are fast and cheap.... $50 to $80 bucks.... You will need Mach 3 and bobcad 24 or higher.................

Then you will need a tutor to teach you how to use bobcad...........


Kim
 
Yes this is a very loaded question
I'm not looking for huge answers, looking for good direction.
I have a bloodworth cnc setup.
It has the motors and air spindle and some other accesories.
I need to get this operating in a bad way.
[...]


Pretty sure that's how all his hay-balers operated.

TW
 
Chum,

I am just guessing but you doubtless have a very old version of Bob Cad.

You may need a program version up grade. When I got my Blud CNC Shaft machine it came with Bobcad 17 which did not even use a mouse because of the operating system on the second hand laptop I got from him. Don't get me wrong it worked and Leonard never misrepresented anything.

As far as the zylotec controller problem Joey is talking about, I did not have a problem with it but never ran it for long periods of time where it got hot where it lost steps. I changed over my Blud shaft machine to DC motors and taper bars and auto stop so I removed the steppers and the controller. So Joeys comment may have a lot of merit and you should keep it in the back of your mind. So you may have to upgrade to another controller at some point but it won't be that expensive if you have to. In the mean time use what you have to develop your learning curve. When you get to the point where you recognize that you are losing steps you will still be practicing on test stuff. You can then change your controller before working on a real cue.

BobCad offers a 3 day seminar and they travel all around the country. Find out when they are in your area. You will learn how to draw in Cad and open the gcode in Mach 3 to do the pockets and inlays.

I noticed that you mentioned that you wish to do simple diamonds and such. If that is all you want to do get a pantograph. LOL. My point is now that you have a CNC your inlays and such will not be limited to just simple designs. The sky is the limit.

You will have to make a commitment to this and at times you will be very frustrated because you will have to juggle at lot of things at the same time while having very little experience. The more you do it the better you will get if you don't give up. It is a little overwhelming at first but hang in there and get that training from Bobcad. It made all the world if difference to me.

Good luck in you new journey,

Rick
 
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well it looks rigid and if its setup tram and true then you have a beautiful base to start with. Anybody know what kind of screws are on this machine? The rotary needs to go in the trash as it looks like a shaft spinner.
 
You will want to decide if you want a turning machine or an inlay machine. Looks like this one was originally set up for both. Pick one or the other and learn that first. If you are willing to pay someone then shoot me a pm. I will expect you to learn some on your own. Oh and be prepared to invest some money as well.

Jim.
 
It is an inlay only machine. Mason had one a few years back that he got from Donald. I tried to make it work as a turning machine and could not get the stepper to run fast enough to do turning work. Also the spindle did not have the power to make any kind of decent cut as it would stall with 3/4 bit. Worked fine with small cutter for inlay work.

As I said I tried for 3 days to get the stepper to turn at speed. Every time I got it to run at any decent RPM as soon as you put any pressure on the stepper it would stop. We were using Mach3 and set it up in programming for turning instead of indexing, still no luck.

Mason sold it soon after that.
 
It is an inlay only machine. Mason had one a few years back that he got from Donald. I tried to make it work as a turning machine and could not get the stepper to run fast enough to do turning work. Also the spindle did not have the power to make any kind of decent cut as it would stall with 3/4 bit. Worked fine with small cutter for inlay work.

As I said I tried for 3 days to get the stepper to turn at speed. Every time I got it to run at any decent RPM as soon as you put any pressure on the stepper it would stop. We were using Mach3 and set it up in programming for turning instead of indexing, still no luck.

Mason sold it soon after that.
Jeesh, no wonder Mason was so disheartened.
 
That looks like the machines that Donald was building. I saw one at the Derby City when Donald was working a little with South East cues. I remember it to be a pretty solid built machine. I always wondered why he didn't move the gantry instead of the table so it wouldn't have to be so long, but it would work well either way.

Originally the machines came with the Xylotex controller as has already been mentioned. The Xylotex was a pretty good controller for it's time, and until the G540 came out they were very popular. As somebody mentioned, it's easy to smoke a chip in them. I probably have a few boards still around here that I've smoked over the years. I don't use them anymore, and I don't think I even have a working drive left either. If it had the right motor, it should have had no problem spinning a shaft for turning. With the wrong motor, it would really struggle to get any RPM.

If you need a controller, I'd recommend the Gecko G540 and the motors from gecko. They have 2 different motors, one is 3.5 amp and is meant specifically for the G540, and the other is around 5 amps. I've used the 5 amp motor on the G540 even though it only puts out the 3.5 amps. Of course the motor doesn't put out the rated torque at the lower amps, but I think it's pretty much the same performance as the 3.5 amp motor and I can still use it with other higher current drives. It keeps me with just one motor for everything. Go to Ebay and search for the G540. The DeepGroove guy sells a decent box complete with the power supply and all. Get the motors directly from Gecko. I would also recommend a smoothstepper, but it does add to the complication factor quite a bit. The smoothstepper eliminates the parallel port, which is where many PC's are very weak, and also provides a much higher frequency output. Basically, it's much smoother and will perform much better.

As for the learning, well it sounds like you're on the ground floor. Mach3 is where you need to start. It's the software that will control your machine. It will read all the code and programs you load into it and convert that into motion of your machine. Start by downloading the install guide and reading it front to back. After you've done that, read it again! Download Mach3 and install it. Don't worry if you don't have it hooked to the machine, just play around with it. Then read the manual again. Study the G codes in the manual. You'll need to know what they all mean.

As for Cad/Cam, I'd go with BobCad. It's certainly not the best software out there, but it's affordable and there's many on here who use it so getting a little help should be pretty easy. Get the training DVD's from them and watch them. Sure, 90% of what they show will be more about 3D, or regular machine shop stuff, but you will learn what you need to know, and they are a great reference too.

Last but not least, setup a user account for cnczone.com's forums. You can't read too much. Heck, I don't think you can read enough, really.


Good luck!

If you push through without throwing your machine or driving off a cliff, then you will most certainly enjoy the things you can make with CNC!


Royce
 
cnc setup

Royce and Jim are the horses in this race. I'd follow their advice closely.
Screws are probably Kerks they were Leonard's favorite.

You should be able to pick up a copy of Bobcad V24 fairly inexpensively.
Also the matching video professor series. I recommend at least going thru
the youtube video's before talking to the experts. Will save you and them
a lot of time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVbrJGDRwl8

One other thing. With a stepper motor the higher the rpm the lower the torque.

http://www.empiremagnetics.com/global_pages/torque_charts/stepper_torqueU43.htm
 
Good Deal Bad Deal? Depends on what last person paid. My last Blud CNC I paid $17,500.00 TWICE for (1990's) It was built from a 1950's milling machine. When the bed moved the base sunk downward. New Table built, new Z and router (or spindle) worked good, even with ahHaa controller. On the BobCad there was a VHS at the time, guy on the blackboard with a guy drawing like buildings. BobCad came out with the DVD where it showed you the moves and became much more user friendly.

Mine ran on belts that did not divide into 360 degrees so most turning of "W" or "A" as they call it now was done by hand movement and lining back up.

I see the pictures as a much better design. I figure about 3K for machine with about 2K put into it (plus work) and have a very good unit. Add about $4,500 to that to include high RPM electric spindle and it would be the nuts.

I had the saw machine (4 levels), could tweek top to within .0001 but bottom 2 used for rough cuts.

Time, money and learning from above posters could be a heck of a machine.
 
Good Deal Bad Deal? Depends on what last person paid. My last Blud CNC I paid $17,500.00 TWICE for (1990's) It was built from a 1950's milling machine. When the bed moved the base sunk downward. New Table built, new Z and router (or spindle) worked good, even with ahHaa controller. On the BobCad there was a VHS at the time, guy on the blackboard with a guy drawing like buildings. BobCad came out with the DVD where it showed you the moves and became much more user friendly.

Mine ran on belts that did not divide into 360 degrees so most turning of "W" or "A" as they call it now was done by hand movement and lining back up.

I see the pictures as a much better design. I figure about 3K for machine with about 2K put into it (plus work) and have a very good unit. Add about $4,500 to that to include high RPM electric spindle and it would be the nuts.

I had the saw machine (4 levels), could tweek top to within .0001 but bottom 2 used for rough cuts.

Time, money and learning from above posters could be a heck of a machine.
I reaaaallly doubt that.:grin-square:
 
Joey,

You doubt it because I should have wrote top two? I had a friend help me tweek it for three days and to him, that was to far off.

The top two are still riding the same lead screw and stepper though.
I think you meant .001".
 
The top two are still riding the same lead screw and stepper though.
I think you meant .001".

Joey,

All four were. Four seperate blocks stacked with dead centers and spring loaded live centers. Could have been .001, I'm an old man :grin: I could sure lose or gain a 0 in 17+ years.:smile:

Last pass was always on Top one.

I thought my CNC story was better though.
 
cnc

I'll bet on .001 my 7000lb Haas moves .0001 just thru thermal expansion.
The 4 saw system that I saw had Thompson round rails and bearings, and Kerk
lead screws. No way .0001, your friend did an amazing job getting .001.
 
hard to beat the gecko 540...

You didn't lose anything.
That Xylotex board is unreliable at best .
It loses steps when it gets hot .
I say chuck it now and get the Gecko.

I've had no problems with my gecko 540... well let me take that back. I only hooked up the z and x axes on it and since it had on board drivers, I smoked the y axis driver, but the other two axes work just fine.

If you're not using super strong motors, I would recommend sticking with the onboard drivers. I had started out with a different board with external drivers, but it becomes a pain in the ass to figure out what's not working right when something goes wrong.

The gecko's are cheap enough now that you can use and abuse them till they fry and then just replace them. Hell, you can buy a spare and only have about 15 minutes downtime if something goes wrong.

I still have two external drivers and my other board that I'm planning on using in either a cnc router or a 3d printer, but then again I may just buy another gecko with on board drivers and be done with it.

Jaden
 
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