Of James Walden

AzDave said:
You could well be right. Drugs and gambling may not have had anything to do with the early deaths of players like Greenleaf and Florence.
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I don't have time to Google the names of sports figures outside of the pool arena who have passed away from drugs, but to pick out two names of pool players for this purpose doesn't cut the mustard, IMHO. The same could be said about quite a few others in non-pool-related areas.

JAM
 
The problem with whispering is that though the actual words may be indiscernable, oftentimes there are still sounds reaching other people. Hard sounds like "S's" travel quite well and are quite annoying because they come at such irregular *yet constant* intervals in conversation. I can understand how that would bore into your brain when you are trying to concentrate.

He was out of line throwing an object, to be sure, and should have just asked politely to desist with the whispering. Any "Psst, sss, sttt..." after that would have been discourteous by you.

You should also know that players in the heat of a match become almost super-aware of their surroundings... hearing every little noise... they usually can disregard it, but you really should have limited your whispers to once in a long while.
 
no question about my reaction

AzDave said:
One other question for you, how would you react if he threw that towel on your wifes feet? Would you make a scene on the spot during tournament play, or would you leave the tournament?
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Had someone thrown a towel at my wife's feet and struck them when I was sure it was for no reason as you describe, hands and their teeth would have flown regardless of the time or place. Disrespecting my wife has put people on the ragged edge of losing their lives a time or two. No apologies for that. I will tolerate much more done to myself than to my wife or children. I am an old school kind of guy on and off the pool table. Attack my family and I don't care if it sets the sport back a hundred years, retaliation would be instant not a post on a forum much later. One more thing that is confusing about this thread, what triggered it now?

I am enjoying discussing the sport in a rational manner with someone but I am curious as to what triggered the first post. Was it simply a starting point for discussion or was there renewed ire and this was an attack on James Walden? Note that I am not making any judgment whether the attack is deserved or not, I lack information to make that decision and I have already admitted that certain things trip my trigger and can lead to instant reactions far stronger than a post on a forum.

Hu
 
Walden

I have known Walden many years also, and he is a nice curteous player that plays great Pool. If the incident went down like it was stated, I have no doubts that it was deserved.

Railbirds can be extrememly discourteous and rude on occasions, forgetting that they are privileged even to be watching. Sometimes players feel pressured, sometimes they don't, and it may not even be the match that is causing it.

You, obviously, were irritating no matter what you thought.

I, once, was playing a player in a tournament, who brought 4 noisy friends with him to the tournament tables to watch. It was obvious there 'job' was to distract me anyway they could with their comments and chatter.
I went to Evelyn Dysert, the TD, and asked her to make them be quiet.
They then, pretended to whisper, making 'sounds' that were irritating at key times when I was shooting. I, then, went back to Evelyn, and she
removed them from the playing area. Railbirds never come before the players, never, even though playes have to suffer through many impolite ones all the time.
 
Snapshot9 said:
I have known Walden many years also, and he is a nice curteous player that plays great Pool. If the incident went down like it was stated, I have no doubts that it was deserved.

Railbirds can be extrememly discourteous and rude on occasions, forgetting that they are privileged even to be watching. Sometimes players feel pressured, sometimes they don't, and it may not even be the match that is causing it.

You, obviously, were irritating no matter what you thought.

I, once, was playing a player in a tournament, who brought 4 noisy friends with him to the tournament tables to watch. It was obvious there 'job' was to distract me anyway they could with their comments and chatter.
I went to Evelyn Dysert, the TD, and asked her to make them be quiet.
They then, pretended to whisper, making 'sounds' that were irritating at key times when I was shooting. I, then, went back to Evelyn, and she
removed them from the playing area. Railbirds never come before the players, never, even though playes have to suffer through many impolite ones all the time.
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I,like another person who posted above, dont know the whole story but do know that Waldon has always been a class act when i was around him.I also know as Scott said, I have often wanted to stand up in in bleachers and yell;"Hey,You in the gaudy red shirt with the loud mouth,suit up.You are going in to finish the match for ........ and put those brilliant thoeries into action."
 
Sounds simple enough to me. James heard exactly what was being said, it was causing him irritation and the towel thrown on the floor was his way of saying, Please stop! Hopefully you listened to what he was trying to tell you.
 
Here's a James Walden story, the first time I had ever seen him in person, actually.

We're at the DCC, and the Executive West Hotel, as usual, was hopping with action galore. Every single table was busy.

After a 14-hour drive from D.C. to Louisvlle, we finally arrived. It was bone-chilling FREEZING cold that year. Our room wasn't ready yet, and so we had to sit in the lobby and wait. Keith runs into Jimmy Mataya's brother John and Ronnie Allen, and they want to take a taxi on over to the horse track. I was out-voted and reluctantly went, but couldn't stay long. I had somehow gotten the flu real bad, I soon discovered, with body aches, temperature, and the whole nine yards. Here it was the very first day of the DCC and I am so sick. Poor Keith caught the flu from me the next day. He could hardly get out of bed, much less play pool. :o

Harry Platis from Seattle arrives in Louisville. Keith and he hadn't seen each other in a long time. So, of course, Keith drags himself out of bed to go hang out with his friend Harry, who can shoot pool himself, a great banker. Harry and Keith have one thing in common, and that is their love for games of stake, especially in pool. ;)

Night time comes, and Keith gets approached by James Walden to play some one-pocket. James had a partner with him. Keith consults with Harry, and the two of them decide to take on James Walden and his partner. By this time, it was close to midnight, and the TV table was vacant. So that is where they played. Soon some railbirds came to sweat the match because it was being broadcast live within the hotel TVs. :D

Harry and Keith gave it their all, and actually, I thought Harry was the one who was shooting the best that night, carrying Keith, but James and his partner always seemed to be one step ahead. I began to worry after Harry and Keith lost the second game, but they wanted to go at it again. :(

Soon Jose Parica came over and sat down next to me. He said, "Jennie, tell Keith and Harry, they can't win against these two guys" I said, "Jose, are you sure?" He said, "Yes, I am sure. They cannot win at this game against James and his partner." I relayed the message to Keith, but he didn't pay it no mind. I think they ended up losing three games total to James and this unknown entity. So it only hurt for a little bit, as they say. :D

To this day, I still don't know who that other player was who was James' partner. I get around and have seen quite a few players, but this guy is still unknown to me. He had kind of long blond hair and sported a beard, reminding me of ZZ Top. Whoever he is, he can sure play some pool and flies under the radar to this day. I have never seen him since! :D

JAM
 
AzDave said:
Happened to stop by an IPT Qualifier at Magoo's in Tulsa last summer... Was watching a Walden match and quietly pointing out to the Admiral how natural short rack players get themselves in trouble playing eight ball. Each time Walden would get out of line, I'd point out to her how a straight pool player would have played the shot differently. It was interesting that Walden had the ability to make some great shot each and every time to extricate himself from the trouble he'd put himself into.

But the big disappointment was observing a classless act by Walden. While he should have been concentrating on his match, he apparently became upset that someone was whispering comments about his play (again, he could not hear what was being said). I must point out that the only time I would whisper a comment was when he was not shooting or looking away. And how did he react? He walked over to us and threw his towel with great force and anger on the Admiral's feet.

And some wonder why our sport cannot gain PGA type approval…
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i guess that you have never watched or heard some of tiger woods or curtis stranges outbursts but i can assure you that no worse language is ever spoken in any pool hall.(thats scary isn't it. lol) im not condoning waldens display, but the truth is that in all sports no person likes to be interrupted or annoyed. while you may think you were whispering, we all know how tuned in people can become when annoyed.
 
AzDave said:
Well said, and completely agree with your general thought, but not your conclusion. I've been on both sides of that tournament scenario. Two points here:

1- The timing AND volume of the comments in no way "interfered" with the match. Magoo's, during IPT Qualifiers is loud and noisy because normal play does NOT stop during tournament play. Folks were yelling loudly during the match all over the room. My comments could not be heard by anyone but the person they were directed at.

2- I've been in his same tournament situation with intentional distractions going on...and did not handle it by throwing something in rage. ***Whatever*** caused his anger should not be handled as he did. It diminished the the game, the tour, and himself.

Gotta question for you here. How would YOU react if you witnesses a PGA player throwing a towel or club at the gallery?

I'll take this further, how would the PGA react if they witness one of their players throwing a club at a heckler? And there was nothing of that sort at Magoo's that afternoon.
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Dave,

I gotta disagree with you here. Some players, including me, are blessed/cursed with "bar ears". It comes from being in strange places and having to know what's going on around you. You can't believe the things I've heard whispered from across a noisy bar...let alone the atmosphere of a tournament. I think he probably heard everything you were saying and the constant commentary on how stupid he was playing was getting in his head. He had to stop you to have any chance. Even if it was loud, whispers stand out. The background noise blends together and then there's a hissss....

As for the pga tour. I was a marshall once at a PGA tournament. My job was to keep the crowd back. One time a player was getting ready to tee off and somebody whispered something in the back of the gallery. The player stopped and glared, then started his routine again. The spectator whispered something again. The player stopped, looked at the spectator and told him (not politely) to knock it off. The spectator said "I didn't say anything." The player said, "You said 'he's going to have trouble with the wind on this shot.' now shut up before I have you thrown out! Is it so f___ing hard to shut up for 45 seconds while I play a shot?" Then he followed it up with some obscenities.

Even if the player would have thrown something at the guy (some have, even Tiger) or shoved him, (again, even Tiger) we would have kicked the spectator out. The players are entitled to play their game. Same goes for pool IMO.

In your situation, he should have requested you be removed from the venue...and you should have been.

Cheers,
RC
 
This is surreal. A guy is sitting off to the side making a negative comment every single time the shooter got out of line (no doubt when he misses or fouls also), then he acts shocked and disappointed when the guy reacts (in a very mild and harmless way that hardly is worth mentioning).

Whispering a steady stream of negative comments about a guy's shooting is 'classless'. I don't care if the volume is high enough to make it out perfectly or not. If you say nothing when he gets in line and then he sees or hears 'pss pss pss pss' when he gets out of line, OF COURSE he knows you're commenting on his failures. OF COURSE he's going to be bothered by it. I'd probably flip out and handle it with even less 'class' than he did. Absolutely nobody likes that and there's no reason to tolerate it.

A simple rule of thumb is don't comment on people's misses and failures when you're at or near the table. Even if your points are good ones, there are 24 hours in a day for you to pass on your wisdom to the admiral. Why pick the exact time when the guy's trying to focus and play his best? Save it for later.
 
Love The Game said:
James is a great player and he's also a nice guy. He must have felt you were sharking him if he reacted like that.

Would love to see Corey give him the eight.

I'll frickin go down in flames with my bankroll on fire if Walden gets this game...........
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I too was trying to get this game going. I think those guys in that thread are full of shite.
 
JAM said:
I can remember at the Glass City Open a few years ago, Buddy Hall was competing in the pit. I can't remember who he was playing, but it was an intense match.

Surrounding the playing area were tables and chairs for so-called VIP participants, though most anybody sat there if a seat was vacant. :D

Buddy was doing his slow-walk around the table, surveying his next shot, when a VIP participant stretched his legs under the table, and his shoes came out from underneath the table cloth like the head of a turtle. Buddy immediately saw it and pointed his cue stick at the poor fellow's feet, and he immediately pulled his feet back in and out of Buddy's view.

Some players do not condone distractions of any kind. It's hard to comment on this James Walden incident without know more of the particulars. Knowing James, though, he is probably one of the most laid-back guys I know. Throwing his towel on the floor seems trivial to me.

JAM
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The funniest thing I think I ever saw was at Grady's Legends of One Pocket tournament in Baton Rouge. it was the second one he had there and Buddy was playing pool and there was a lot of quiet while he was playing but there was this one guy who had one of those hard, clear styrene type glasses and he had ice cubes in it but no drink of any kind. It seemed that just as Buddy was about to take a shot this guy would hoist his glass to his lips suck down one ice cube and let the rest of the ice cubes clatter in the bottom of the hard styrene glass. This went on for about 15 minutes and Buddy was looking around trying to find out who was making that racket and I was just about to burst inside with laughter. I like Buddy and he was right about the guy with the clinking ice cubes but Buddy was making me belly laugh inside because of the way he was scanning the crowd and trying to locate this guy. His face was not amused and he kept looking for this guy and finally he spotted him and bellowed at him to stop clinking those damned ice cubes in the glass.

I don't know how the guy could not have known that the noise was bothering Buddy but he kept it up until he got caught. Buddy is the sharker attacker. He doesn't let anyone get by with anything.

And you know what, he's right. You want to watch championship pool? Keep quiet, remain motionless, watch it, appreciate and allow it to happen.

If not, go sit at the bar and have a few drinks and hoot and holler over there.
JoeyA
 
Snapshot9 said:
I have known Walden many years also, and he is a nice curteous player that plays great Pool. If the incident went down like it was stated, I have no doubts that it was deserved.

Railbirds can be extrememly discourteous and rude on occasions, forgetting that they are privileged even to be watching. Sometimes players feel pressured, sometimes they don't, and it may not even be the match that is causing it.

You, obviously, were irritating no matter what you thought.

I, once, was playing a player in a tournament, who brought 4 noisy friends with him to the tournament tables to watch. It was obvious there 'job' was to distract me anyway they could with their comments and chatter.
I went to Evelyn Dysert, the TD, and asked her to make them be quiet.
They then, pretended to whisper, making 'sounds' that were irritating at key times when I was shooting. I, then, went back to Evelyn, and she
removed them from the playing area. Railbirds never come before the players, never, even though playes have to suffer through many impolite ones all the time.
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Scott, did you win the match? (honestly)
JoeyA
 
> Whispering a steady stream of negative comments about a guy's shooting is 'classless'. <

I know...you've never pointed out real time examples of the point you were making. The point being discussed was that most short rack players think shot over position. And the point being made in this thread is that towel throwing in tournaments gets a consensus OK. I'm outta this thread. Enough of the 'railbird' etc. insults.
 
AzDave said:
> Whispering a steady stream of negative comments about a guy's shooting is 'classless'. <

I know...you've never pointed out real time examples of the point you were making. The point being discussed was that most short rack players think shot over position. And the point being made in this thread is that towel throwing in tournaments gets a consensus OK. I'm outta this thread. Enough of the 'railbird' etc. insults.
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Dave,

Sorry if your feathers are ruffled a bit. (railbird :D) To answer your first question. NO, I have never whispered during a player's match when I was close enough that I couldn't talk openly. In fact, I can't remember ever talking quietly from a distance about a player's match, even in leagues. Some players on my team do it and I try to discourage it because I, for one, can hear every word they say about my play when they think they're whispering.

Fact is, people have different abilities for hearing, seeing, smelling etc... and just because you wouldn't have been able to hear you, if you were in his shoes, doesn't mean that he can't.

I don't think anyone said throwing the towel was okay, but I think the consensus was that whispering about a player's mistakes during his match while he could hear you, is not ok. I think most posters felt that the towel throwing was understandable, which is different from ok.

I don't know if you're referring to my above post at all, but I definitely agree with you that James took the wrong approach to solve the problem. I think he should have requested that you be removed from the venue.

I didn't realize 'railbird' was an insult. It's a pretty common term around here and doesn't contain any inherent prejudice as far as I know.

Don't take it personally.

Cheers,
RC
 
masonh said:
Railbirds always play perfect pool.
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Never missed a ball from up there in the bleachers. Of course, I never won a game either.

Stones
 
AzDave said:
> Whispering a steady stream of negative comments about a guy's shooting is 'classless'. <

I know...you've never pointed out real time examples of the point you were making. The point being discussed was that most short rack players think shot over position. And the point being made in this thread is that towel throwing in tournaments gets a consensus OK. I'm outta this thread. Enough of the 'railbird' etc. insults.
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What is even more amazing is it is more evident that this AZDave has not seen James shoot that much at all. Those that have would describe Walden's play in no other way then as controlled, maticulious, deliberate and exacting. Besides courteous.
 
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