Olathe!!!! What A Joke!!!

I was watching when this happened and am a little confused. Why is it that when he missed the shot the other player was able to give it back to him. Why would Orcullo not be the next to shoot? If this was allowable in the rules then how was it cheating. Seems to me that these two just wanted to get the inevitable over.
 
gotuontilt said:
I was watching when this happened and am a little confused. Why is it that when he missed the shot the other player was able to give it back to him. Why would Orcullo not be the next to shoot? If this was allowable in the rules then how was it cheating. Seems to me that these two just wanted to get the inevitable over.
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I think the payout is 7-2 if Jr wins.
 
Once again for those of you who were there. WHERE WAS THE TD?

I can tell you one thing. It won't happen at the Ring Game in Derby City! There is definitely something that could have been done to stop it quick. I'll save that for when I need it.
 
gotuontilt said:
I was watching when this happened and am a little confused. Why is it that when he missed the shot the other player was able to give it back to him. Why would Orcullo not be the next to shoot? If this was allowable in the rules then how was it cheating. Seems to me that these two just wanted to get the inevitable over.
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Jr. fouled on the shot. McMinn is next in the rotation, and has the option of taking the resulting layout or making Jr. shoot again. He chose to make Jr. shoot again. It wasn't cheating.
 
jay helfert said:
Once again for those of you who were there. WHERE WAS THE TD?

I can tell you one thing. It won't happen at the Ring Game in Derby City! There is definitely something that could have been done to stop it quick. I'll save that for when I need it.
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they didnt actually "cheat" ,jay.more like took advantage of the rules and showed poor sportmanship and character.i dont understand why when it came down to 3 they werent playing texas rules anyways.
 
sjb said:
Jr. fouled on the shot. McMinn is next in the rotation, and has the option of taking the resulting layout or making Jr. shoot again. He chose to make Jr. shoot again. It wasn't cheating.
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I agree here. But why wouldnt the turn pass to orcullo if Mcminn doesnt want to shoot the shot? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Im just new to this format.
 
jay helfert said:
Once again for those of you who were there. WHERE WAS THE TD?

I can tell you one thing. It won't happen at the Ring Game in Derby City! There is definitely something that could have been done to stop it quick. I'll save that for when I need it.
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Jay, do you think that we may be prejudging these two players without knowing all the facts?

I am not doubting what Jamie McWhorter states. Since I did not see it happen, I am just trying to think of all possible scenarios. I have seen a player win and thereafter be accused of dumping, when the player tried with all his might to win and did not dump.

To throw out a hypothetical, would it be possible that Dennis Orcollo unscrewed his cue because his position in the ring game would not have afforded him another opportunity to shoot? If he was down to his last barrel, then he may have conceded the loss. Though this is not a practice all pool players do, some players do unscrew their cue before the end of a game if they think they would not get another shot. I have also seen a player move the remaining balls on the table when conceding a loss, not letting their opponent shoot the remaining balls in the hole, maybe because the remaining shots were ducks.

Just some food for thought!

JAM
 
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sjb said:
Obviously, you've not played either of these "no-namers." And apparently, you didn't watch them play over the weekend. They both deserved to be where they were based on the strength of their play -- as individuals.

And IF McMinn took a calculated risk by letting Jr. shoot again, because he didn't think he was the favorite to get out, then that's just a smart move -- happens all the time in a ring game. It doesn't mean there's some sinister "agreement."
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Calling a 4 time national Jr champ a no name is a bit of a reach...(I will give you banks jr as a no name )

Banks fouled, Mcminn put the table back on him ...well within the rules as I understand it... of course these two guys wanted to get D.O out of there.. wouldnt you want to get rid of the strongest player first?...wouldnt that give YOU the better chance of winning? ....
 
gotuontilt said:
I agree here. But why wouldnt the turn pass to orcullo if Mcminn doesnt want to shoot the shot? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Im just new to this format.
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Typically in ring games, when a player fouls, the next player in line has the option of shooting the shoot, or making the same player shoot over again. Passing the shot is passing back to the previous shooter, not to the next shooter.

Kelly
 
cueaddicts said:
That's just shameful if it went down like this. And yes, it's precisely the reason why many railbirds no longer wager side bets.....why would they if the fix is on ??
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First BASKETBALL, now POOL!:mad: What's next, WRASSLIN?

On topic: IMO the rules (or lack thereof) were taken advantage of to eliminate D.O.
 
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gotuontilt said:
I agree here. But why wouldnt the turn pass to orcullo if Mcminn doesnt want to shoot the shot? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Im just new to this format.
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In the "new" Diamond Ring Game rules, it will pass to the next player, to protect against this sort of thing.
 
smokeandapancak said:
...two guys wanted to get D.O out of there.. wouldnt you want to get rid of the strongest player first?...wouldnt that give YOU the better chance of winning? ....
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It would, but (AS I HAVE BEEN LED TO BELIEVE) the rules clearly state "Honest effort". Pushing out to an easier shot is not an option.
 
smokeandapancak said:
Calling a 4 time national Jr champ a no name is a bit of a reach...(I will give you banks jr as a no name )

Banks fouled, Mcminn put the table back on him ...well within the rules as I understand it... of course these two guys wanted to get D.O out of there.. wouldnt you want to get rid of the strongest player first?...wouldnt that give YOU the better chance of winning? ....
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That's pretty much my point. If McMinn took the option he thought was best for HIMSELF, how's that cheating, or even unethical?

BTW, I didn't call either of them no-namers. I was just qouting the other poster. And believe me, Jr. isn't a "no-namer" either -- not around these parts.
 
JAM said:
Jay, do you think that we may be prejudging these two players without knowing all the facts?

I am not doubting what Jamie McWhorter states. Since I did not see it happen, I am just trying to think of all possible scenarios. I have seen a player win and thereafter be accused of dumping, when the player tried with all his might to win and did not dump.

To throw out a hypothetical, would it be possible that Dennis Orcollo unscrewed his cue because his position in the ring game would not have afforded him another opportunity to shoot? If he was down to his last barrel, then he may have conceded the loss. Though this is not a practice all pool players do, some players do unscrew their cue before the end of a game if they think they would not get another shot. I have also seen a player move the remaining balls on the table when conceding a loss, not letting their opponent shoot the remaining balls in the hole, maybe because the remaining shots were ducks.

Just some food for thought!

JAM
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Thanks Jam,

I think I've got the picture on what transpired now. It's not my tournament, so it's not up to me. I applaud Dan Tull for putting on something unique in the Pool world. All in all, I think it worked quite well, and I hope he does it again next year.

I believe the two best players this week made it to the Finals. Remember, Dennis WAS down to one barrel. He HAD to win that last game. Like Tang said, it became a breaking contest on that equipment. I'd like to see them go to Diamonds next year. That would bring players like SVB and Dennis right back into the mix.

It was no accident that Shane M. and Mike B. did so well. They broke good, and they played good behind it. They deserve it and I congratulate them. Sure, they wanted Dennis out of the picture. It moves both of them up $5,000! Next time boys, just don't make it so obvious. :)
 
Kelly_Guy said:
Typically in ring games, when a player fouls, the next player in line has the option of shooting the shoot, or making the same player shoot over again. Passing the shot is passing back to the previous shooter, not to the next shooter.

Kelly
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Seems to me then the problem lies in the rules. The players just took advantage of the rules to give them an advantage. To call them cheats and insult their integrity seems to go overboard. Has this not ever happened or been thought of before? Seems to me this would be common in this type of game when it got down to the last few players if the rules allowed it. A rule change should be looked into to avoid these type situations.
 
It would, but (AS I HAVE BEEN LED TO BELIEVE) the rules clearly state "Honest effort". Pushing out to an easier shot is not an option.

gotuontilt said:
Seems to me then the problem lies in the rules. The players just took advantage of the rules to give them an advantage. To call them cheats and insult their integrity seems to go overboard. Has this not ever happened or been thought of before? Seems to me this would be common in this type of game when it got down to the last few players if the rules allowed it. A rule change should be looked into to avoid these type situations.
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I was watching when this happened and I would not say McMinn put Banks back in with a straight in shot. It was a dicey situation and I thought the CB was hooked when he did it. It turns out it wasn't because Banks drilled the thin cut shot, which was hampered by another ball along the same rail.

Now, here is my version of the situation. This is entirely of my memory and I didn't study the situation in minute detail as it was happening real-time and I didn't know it would become such a matter of discussion.

I have no idea which balls were where only that the three balls shown where "in play" during this situation. There were others on the table naturally and the precise position may very from that shown.


CueTable Help

 
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JamieMcWhorter said:
....Banks was shooting missed a kick and McMinn let him shoot again on a straight in ball.....Orcullo immediately unscrewed and walked away....
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McMinn passing back to Banks, when a good shot was available, sucks for D.O., but it seems to be a good strategy play (akin to 2 players checking down in poker when a 3rd player is all in). The "push-out" on the 8 doesn't seem to matter. As Jamie points out, D.O. had already conceeded at that point by breaking his cue down and walking away. I guess I don't see it as a big deal. I would say, big kudos to Orcullo for apparently handling the situation with class.
 
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