Old School Role-Out v/s.Texas Express 9 ball

Walt Frazier

Walt Frazier

Banned
Old School Roll-Out v/s.Texas Express 9 ball

Many players differ in opinion as to which style was best for pool gambling..Most of the old timers.. even in todays times.. would much rather play roll out than Texas Express style 9b..

This is a question for Jay or Freddie:In Richie Florence's Tournaments in the 80's (at the stardust?) was it roll out 9ball played in them?..I can't recall...

One more question..I've always heard talk about Denny Searcy but never saw him play..was he THAT good or what?:D
 
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Searcy

Walt Frazier said:
Many players differ in opinion as to which style was best for pool gambling..Most of the old timers.. even in todays times.. would much rather play roll out than Texas Express style 9b..

This is a question for Jay or Freddie:In Richie Florence's Tournaments in the 80's (at the stardust?) was it roll out 9ball played in them?..I can't recall...

One more question..I've always heard talk about Denny Searcy but never saw him play..was he THAT good or what?:D
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Hell Yeah, he was that good. On a given day, nobody had to beat him. I saw him once or twice in the late 80's? It could have been earlier. Anyway, he gave what I consider to be a very good player the seven and just laughed at him. I also heard he used to give Earl the eight, even when Earl was coming into his own.
 
bigskyjake said:
what exactly are the rules for roll out 9b
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basically you are playing like you just broke the balls in Texas Express and you have the option to push, but the incoming guy can give it back to you.

like most GREAT games, this sounds simple yet the strategy becomes HUGE!

I have played real strong players push out and they will push to crazy shots and make em, then next time they do it you are thinking.....CRAP! what now, I opt back and they run out, I shoot and miss...they run out....

sounds fun huh?!:D

Gerry
 
so you can push out at anytime during the game?

couldn't players keep pushing out back and forth?
 
I hate to show how old school I am but........ You guys have the rules for push-out nine ball down pretty good, although it seems you are all drawing from deep memories. I don't know how people play now. What's "Texas Express" ?

Thanks

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
I hate to show how old school I am but........ You guys have the rules for push-out nine ball down pretty good, although it seems you are all drawing from deep memories. I don't know how people play now. What's "Texas Express" ?

Thanks

Kevin
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TX Express is what all tournaments play now. That is what it was originally called.

Gerry, you couldn't be more correct, sir. Pushout favors, Big Time, the better player.
 
I gathered that it was what was being played now. I was actually curious as to what the rules of "Texas Express" were?
 
kvinbrwr said:
I gathered that it was what was being played now. I was actually curious as to what the rules of "Texas Express" were?
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Texas Express is what you see people playing on TV. Only push out after break and from there on you must try to hit the object ball or give up ball in hand.
 
I think that's what we called (in the old daze) one-foul-ball-in-hand, push out being two-foul-ball-in-hand?
 
kvinbrwr said:
I think that's what we called (in the old daze) one-foul-ball-in-hand, push out being two-foul-ball-in-hand?
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Yeah, kinda. But it was some time after the one-foul-bih rules became popular. To keep it straight which was which, I guess.
One-foul-bih SUCKS!
 
Walt Frazier said:
Many players differ in opinion as to which style was best for pool gambling..Most of the old timers.. even in todays times.. would much rather play roll out than Texas Express style 9b..

This is a question for Jay or Freddie:In Richie Florence's Tournaments in the 80's (at the stardust?) was it roll out 9ball played in them?..I can't recall...

One more question..I've always heard talk about Denny Searcy but never saw him play..was he THAT good or what?:D
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Richie was an innovator. Against my objections (I was his TD), he went to Texas Express rules for the televised Caesar's events. He was looking for a way to speed up the game. A typical Race To Eleven used to take an hour and a half to two hours. The new rules cut that down 15-30 minutes.

Texas Express rules were first formulated by John McChesney, Robin Adair and Randy G. who posts on here. They used them for the Texas Express 9-Ball Tour in the early 80's. It was a major changeover from the old "Push Out" 9-Ball.

The big differences with the new rules, you must make a legal shot or it is a foul and the opponent gets ball in hand. Any balls made on a foul, stay down. With the old rules, you could "roll out" at any time, and your opponent had the option to shoot or pass back to you. If you fouled on your second stroke, your opponent got ball in hand behind the line. There was no ball in hand anywhere on the table.

All balls made on a foul would respot, and the incoming player shot from behind the line. So, all balls came back up and the incoming player shot from behind the line. He could also pass this shot back to the player who had fouled, and make him shoot at the respotted balls.

Thus you had to shoot many spot shots. It was a like a free throw in basketball. A good player could make it 9 out of 10 times. The game took longer and the better player had more of an advantage, due to the fact that more decisions had to be made. And more tough shots had to be shot as well. That's it in a nutshell.
 
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jay helfert said:
Richie was an innovator. Against my objections (I was his TD), he went to Texas Express rules for the televised Caesar's events. He was looking for a way to speed up the game. A typical Race To Eleven used to take an hour and a half to two hours. The new rules cut that down 15-30 minutes.
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I haven't seen too many 15 minute races to 11...;) But there's no question that Texas Express sped up the games. Of course there would be no reason to play races to 11 with shoot-out rules.

The downside of the new rules was that it took 9-ball from a game of skill, and made it a game of chance. The nice part about roll-out is that a player never has to suffer an accidental hook by his opponent having missed a shot. Or for that matter, accidently leaving himself hooked.

I think a combination of the rules could be thought up to nullify some of the dumb luck. But unfortunately the Genie has been let out of the bottle, and I see no general interest in making 9-ball rules more skillful...:(

Doc
 
jay helfert said:
Richie was an innovator. Against my objections (I was his TD), he went to Texas Express rules for the televised Caesar's events. He was looking for a way to speed up the game. A typical Race To Eleven used to take an hour and a half to two hours. The new rules cut that down 15-30 minutes.

Texas Express rules were first formulated by John McChesney, Robin Adair and Randy G. who posts on here. They used them for the Texas Express 9-Ball Tour in the early 80's. It was a major changeover from the old "Push Out" 9-Ball.

The big differences with the new rules, you must make a legal shot or it is a foul and the opponent gets ball in hand. Any balls made on a foul, stay down. With the old rules, you could "roll out" at any time, and your opponent had the option to shoot or pass back to you. If you fouled on your second stroke, your opponent got ball in hand behind the line. There was no ball in hand anywhere on the table.

All balls made on a foul would respot, and the incoming player shot from behind the line. So, all balls came back up and the incoming player shot from behind the line. He could also pass this shot back to the player who had fouled, and make him shoot at the respotted balls.

Thus you had to shoot many spot shots. It was a like a free throw in basketball. A good player could make it 9 out of 10 times. The game took longer and the better player had more of an advantage, due to the fact that more decisions had to be made. And more tough shots had to be shot as well. That's it in a nutshell.
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Thank you very much, that IS it in a nutshell. I was thinking when reading about the new rules that the previously big role of the spot shot would be lost (which is fine with me, I didn't shoot them 90%)
 
Push out was definetly an advantage for the better and smarter player. The luck factor was almost gone. I tried not to play races. I prefered to put it all in and play something like 7 ahead.

Many more racks could be strung together because there was no fear of breaking up clusters and getting hooked. If you got hooked you just pushed out.

These days many times we play position to play safe instead of breaking up the balls or playing tight position.

By the way does anyone remember playing two foul pushout by the same man as opposed to any two fouls?
 
dabarbr said:
These days many times we play position to play safe instead of breaking up the balls or playing tight position.

By the way does anyone remember playing two foul pushout by the same man as opposed to any two fouls?
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Never played that way, we played any two gave ball in hand anywhere to the incoming player. I have heard of it, though. Push out is definitely more strategic than one-foul-ball -in-hand-anywhere. I wrote a lengthy explanation on rsb some years ago. Don't have it now, unfortunately.
 
Pushout said:
Never played that way, we played any two gave ball in hand anywhere to the incoming player. I have heard of it, though. Push out is definitely more strategic than one-foul-ball -in-hand-anywhere. I wrote a lengthy explanation on rsb some years ago. Don't have it now, unfortunately.
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You know, I've been arguing this for years.
I can't agree push out is more strategic.

It is extremely baised in favor of the better shooter, instead of the
better player.
My biggest complaint is, it removes ANY penality for failing to get
position. Why should there be a "do over " in 9 ball.
Can you imagine playing Straight Pool, or One Pocket like that?

Granted, one-foul has problems, but nothing like pushout.

Dale<still favors shoot-to-hit>
 
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