On Chuck Bobbitt...

Why in the world can this guy that supposedly owns a business and had a lot of money spent by spectators nor anyone of his friends nor anyone from the UPA not come up with 30g's? LMAO, its not like its millions of dollars to begin with. When people like this say they can't come up with that amount of money, they are lying and simply don't want to pay it.
 
Interesting

Roger Long said:
All I'm saying is that I'm not convinced that Chuck was intentionally trying to scam anyone.
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24,000 entries
15,000 paid out
9,000 missing

Add in door money and the raffle. What else do you need to be convinced?

Roger Long said:
I hope we can make this up to you all, somehow.

Roger
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This sounds like it should be signed, Chuck. Is this Chuck Bobbitt?
 
Roger Long said:
Ray,

Prior to the tournament, Jay had posted on here that there would be seating for 250+ spectators. There might have been, but I was there for 5-1/2 hours on Thur. and for 10-1/2 on Friday, and around "prime time" each day, when the bleachers would appear to be filling up, I would take a head count (as accurately as possible, that is). Thursday's head count came to around 65 people. Friday's head count came to around 110. And it appeared to me that there wasn't that much turnover during the times I was there. It looked to me like most of the people were like myself; they were coming in and staying for a long time, so could it be possible that there were never as many spectators as expected? Now again, I wasn't there for all 4 days, so I probably shouldn't be speculating here. And I sure don't want to be sounding like I'm calling anybody a liar. All I'm saying is that I'm not convinced that Chuck was intentionally trying to scam anyone. Instead, it appears to me that he just got in way over his head, and when things went south, his survival instincts kicked in, and he ended up making some very, very bad choices. And for that, he'll be paying for a long time to come.

Jay,
I truly am sorry that you and the players were not paid. It's one of the worst feelings in the world. I know, I've been there too many times myself. I hope we can make this up to you all, somehow.

Roger
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Roger,

I DID do head counts every day! We had over 100 people paid on Thursday, and Friday and Saturday were better. About 150-160 people were there both days at one time (two bleachers with about 60 people on each, one bleacher with about 20-25 people plus everyone else sitting on high chairs and standing). Probably quite a few more in total came thru the doors both days. Sunday was a little slower (it's always that way), with about 75-80 people watching the final matches. As you know daily passes were $20 and season passes sold for $60 on Thursday and $50 on Friday.
 
Dennis...

I'm pretty sure you know what "camps" I'm refering to, but for others, let me try to explain. Here in Arizona, we have two billiards newspapers. One paper focuses on the better players and the more serious competitions. The other paper focuses on the lower-tiered players and the "banger" tournaments. Each paper has its own promotional philosophy, its own advertiser base, its own readership, and its own loyal following (much like AZB and the other forums). And each paper does a pretty good job at doing what they do, even though neither will admit it to the other. But the real problem is that the competition for new advertisers leads to bars and pool rooms being pressured to adopt one or the other newspaper's promotional philosophies. Therefore, things get pretty nasty between the two newspapers sometimes.

What does all this have to do with anything? Well, I write for the "banger" newspaper. I've been doing that for 10 or 11 years now. And Dennis, Jimmy, Ken and Chuck are all good friends with Ron Merseal - the current owner of Alexander's, and the former owner of the newspaper for the better players (get the picture?). Therefore, that's why I said we are in different "camps."

Silly, isn't it?

Roger
p.s. Jay, you obviously know the numbers better than I do, so I'll keep my nose out of that area from now on. Sorry.
 
Bobbitt may have gotten in over his head but the numbers seem to add up to Bobbitt taking money out rather than adding any money in. None of which gives any credence to him being any kind of stand up guy. This is looking more like it should be a criminal matter than a civil suit.
 
Wish I was still in AZ to hear all the pool room gossip that must be going around. Wonder if Chuck has even shown his face around town...

I heard tournament money may have been used to keep his business afloat from two different people. Surely a wild rumor but its plausible if money is also missing from the tournament besides the added...
 
Roger Long said:
Now my comment is this: I've known Chuck for several years, and he has never impressed me as the type of person who might try to cheat anyone out of anything at any time. Instead, I've always viewed Chuck as being one of those people who are so in love with pool that they are willing to do anything they can to be accepted by the "upper-eschelon" players. In the past, he contributed money out of his own means to many local events here just so they could be called successes; even though anyone with any experience knew they were surely money losers. But that never kept the small-time promoters around here from always coming back and asking Chuck for more. I guess they thought Chuck's resources would never run dry; or else they just didn't care what his own problems were as long as the feeding trough was still open.

Now we come to the Desert Shootout. I believe this was not an idea hatched by Chuck alone. I believe he had a lot of encouragement from his closest friends and associates. I believe they enticed him with the old "Build it, and they will come" routine. It was obvious that Chuck was very optimistic about the whole thing, as he told me in February that he thought he would have to cut the field off at 128. That's the kind of response he was anticipating! But that was in February when Chuck's business was probably in better shape, as I know my own business was in better shape at that time. Then comes April and the player turnout is only half of that anticipated; which means hotel bookings would be half, gate receipts would be half, and any other expected revenues would be only half. But did that mean Chuck's expenses were cut in half? Probably not. I would be pretty sure he didn't walk away from that hotel deal without having to pay something, even though the hotel was never used. And I'm pretty sure he wasn't able to have those Diamond tables and their set-up crew brought in without having to pay something, even though they were never used. And I'm pretty sure there were a lot of other last minute expenses that had to be covered just so the event could still be run, and not have to cancel it with a bunch of out-of-town players standing there with their cues in hand.

Yes, Chuck Bobbitt made a big mistake. But his mistake was not in trying to do something positive for pool; no, I believe his mistake was in taking some bad advice from his friends and associates here in Arizona. These "friends and accociates" know who they are, and they know what I'm talking about. Where are they now that everyone (except JAM) is wanting to lynch Chuck without a trial? Are they on here defending him? No, they aren't. Are they out trying to scare up funds to help Chuck out of this mess? Somehow, I doubt that, too.Roger Long
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I admire you sticking your nose out for a friend Roger but a from common sense business look at the facts that you yourself admit, Chuck is dead wrong on all counts.... Chuck may have had some bad advice but it all boils down to him having bad business sense. If he were a "9-5 working for the man" type of guy with no knowledge of business practice, I could go for the defense that he was duped by others or whatever. But by your own admission, and by others in this and other threads, Chuck is a business owner and has been for some time. As you said, "It was obvious that Chuck was very optimistic about the whole thing, as he told me in February that he thought he would have to cut the field off at 128. That's the kind of response he was anticipating!" If that was Chucks mentality going into, that's fine, you have to believe in what you are doing. But first and foremost, you have to look at it from a business approach. Evidentally Chuck never heard of risk analysis. YOU NEVER BANK ON OPTIMISTIC FORECASTS, ONLY PESSIMISTIC ONES!!! If he had worked the numbers from a pessimistic approach he could have seen the reality of what he was looking forward to. If the pessimistic numbers say that it's break even business and he wants to do something for the good of the game, then by all means fire away..... But he obviuosly didn't do the math with any common sense. I've been directly involved in promoting tournaments in the past, from little weekly 8-ball tournaments to $10,000 added events. I never minded losing a little money on a little weekly 8-ball tourney for the good of the game, but any $1,000-$10,000 added tourney that we did I made damn sure ahead of time that it wasn't a losing proposition.... Chuck may have had partners that backed out, but they probably did so because they were good at math and not mad at their money. Chuck put his name on the tournament and hob-knobbed with the players and fans all weekend, so he should suffer the consequences for his action and risks'...... Now it's time for him to belly up to the bar!!!

Saw
 
Interesting - in the past 6 hours, it seems that the consensus of posters are startinig to analyze this situation for what it is worth. Glad to see it & hope you aren't being added to the bad reputation list by the new sheriff in town.
 
I'm not disagreeing with anything that any of you are saying about the seriousness of Chuck's offense. No matter how you slice it, what he did was wrong.

But what I am trying to get across is threefold: #1) I don't think that Chuck intentionally set out to defraud anybody. It turns out that he did in the end, but I still don't think it was premeditated. #2) It serves no good purpose to disparage Chuck's, or any other person's, name on a discussion forum. There are legal ways to settle matters such as this one, and a poll of public opinions is not one of them. #3) Last week, it seemed like everyone in Arizona wanted to be Chuck's friend. This week, no one seems to want to get within miles of him. Do you know what that's like? Sure you do, because we've all made mistakes too. Some of us have even done things so vile that we wish we could forget them forever. And at those lowest points in our lives, the thing we need the least is people reminding us how stupid we are. And the thing we need the most, is a friend. We just need someone to stand by us while we face the consequences of our actions, even if we don't deserve that kind of friendship. And that's all I'm trying to be to Chuck on this forum; a friend.

The next time one of you messes up - and you will mess up - I hope someone stands by you. I hope the same thing for myself.

So do you think we could lay off Chuck now, and let Jay and the legal system handle his fate from here on in?

Roger
 
same shit just a different day-don't quit the day job!

I love pool but this crap- always happens -somebody always gets stiffed,or cut up.Now its the promoters stiffing the players. This guy signed his death warrant, these numbers mean felony's,( I would have rather been throw to the lions,that write rubber checks.) another knife in the coffin for the pool world. Up here the poolhalls are dropping like flys, (because of the economy,gas prices,no-smoking,food prices) pool has no small task ahead. Does anybody remember the pool tournement that went on, the same day as 911? SHOW ME THE MONEY you guys got burned by the ipt and now this. winning is only half the battle,try collecting the correct amount seems to be the challenge these days. good luck and a happy good night to all. mark Who's hustling who
 
yes I remember that tournament, I was there. It was the US Open and it was the only major sporting event in the United States that continued with play during and after 9/11/01. I can still remember standing there in the lobby outside the playing area in Chesapeake, with everyone huddled around this small table that had a tv on it, watching live as the towers fell. People were in shock and one even said, is this real? My airline that I flew up from Miami on that weekend went under bc of the attacks and we got the last car at Hertz and drove home after Corey drilled Mika in the finals.

Back to the issue here, I use to do criminal defense work and at least back in the mid 90s, the amounts discussed here are easily felonies. The person getting the bad check has to put the writer of the bad check on written notice that the check was dishonored. It probably is the same way in Arizona. So if any of the pool players that got rubber checks here haven't sent a certified letter to Chuck indicating that the checks bounced and demanding payment, you are hurting the chances he can be successfully prosecuted. Also, there is likely a time period that such notice has to be sent to the check writer. In florida, its 7 days.
 
I just wanted to add in that in Florida, if you didnt mail notice to the defendant that you got a check from him that bounced, it doesnt mean he cant still be prosecuted for a bad check, it just means that it makes it more difficult. In most states, the written notice thing is designed to aid in the demonstration of intent to defraud. The florida 7 day written notice provision allows for easy prosecution, because intent to defraud is assumed if the person was given proper notice and does nothing to make it right. If you got outside the 7 day window, then the prosecutor has to prove intent to defraud.

The bottom line here is you are one of the guys holding a rubber check from Chuck, you have to get proactive and you cannot sit back and do nothing. Something tells me that Chuck will make restitution if he is facing jail time. Most people I know would sell everything they own to stay out of jail. Also in most states the civil provisions for bad checks allow for the check holder to sue the check writer and recover not only the check value but fines and attorney fees. In florida, the fines in the mid 90s were up to 3x the check amt plus attorney fees. You have to pursue this hard and immediately though, you cannot sit back and be passive or you will get another fekking, this time by the legal system instead of by Chuck.
 
corvette1340 said:
Why in the world can this guy that supposedly owns a business and had a lot of money spent by spectators nor anyone of his friends nor anyone from the UPA not come up with 30g's? LMAO, its not like its millions of dollars to begin with. When people like this say they can't come up with that amount of money, they are lying and simply don't want to pay it.
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If it's such a paltry amount, why don't you hand it over? You're such a big mouth and a braggart. Yesterday, you had to post to all how you have a college education, make six figures, and don't reconcile your checking account and only look at your brokerage accounts.

You post pictures on this forum of what you do during the day, which fast foot restaurant your six-figure salary takes you to, what your desk looks like, what the inside of your car looks like. I mean, my God, what's next? Are we going to see what your favorite urinal looks like?

If 30K is such an easy amount to acquire, then put it up or shut up.

JAM
 
uwate said:
Back to the issue here, I use to do criminal defense work and at least back in the mid 90s, the amounts discussed here are easily felonies. The person getting the bad check has to put the writer of the bad check on written notice that the check was dishonored. It probably is the same way in Arizona. So if any of the pool players that got rubber checks here haven't sent a certified letter to Chuck indicating that the checks bounced and demanding payment, you are hurting the chances he can be successfully prosecuted. Also, there is likely a time period that such notice has to be sent to the check writer. In florida, its 7 days.
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Most areas now, bad checks & the process of prosecuting or possibly resolving the issue lies in the hands of the county where the check was written. That is why I would think that Jay keeps stating that he is in touch with the county in Arizona, not some state police agency. I am sure that Jay looked into what steps are needed in the process. Each county has different requirements. Some counties are great in collecting, sending out notices or the sheriffs department to either collect the $$$ or collect the party involved to take them to jail.

When I had my store, I actually rarely got any bad checks. But when I did, I would first call the person to see if they wanted to make it right - including bank charges. Then, I would usually wait to the beginning of the next month and take the bad check to the person's own bank. You can always try to put a check thru more than once, even if it has bounced, as long as the bank (yours) didn't punch holes in the bottom of the check. For people that live paycheck to paycheck, the beginning of the month is when they would make a deposit into their account to cover their monthly bills. Thus, the reason to go at this time. I would say 50% of the time, the check would clear when I re-presented it. If the bank was a far enough drive away, I would even call to verify funds before taking the time to drive over. Last resort, I would turn over to the prosecutor,

Unfortunately, with Chuck, I would think that with the number of bad checks he wrote & the total dollar amount, his bank has probably already closed his account & is trying to recoup the fees that they applied to him for writing the checks.
 
JAM said:
If it's such a paltry amount, why don't you hand it over? You're such a big mouth and a braggart. Yesterday, you had to post to all how you have a college education, make six figures, and don't reconcile your checking account and only look at your brokerage accounts.

You post pictures on this forum of what you do during the day, which fast foot restaurant your six-figure salary takes you to, what your desk looks like, what the inside of your car looks like. I mean, my God, what's next? Are we going to see what your favorite urinal looks like?

If 30K is such an easy amount to acquire, then put it up or shut up.

JAM
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You know, it really is sad when I intentionally put you on ignore to avoid you and I get 10 pm's telling me that you are still taking cheap shots at me any chance you get when I haven't said one word to you or about you. Why in the world would I give this crook 30K of my hard earned money? I don't even know him and think he is scum. Are you on crack? Seriously, step away from the crack pipe and go back to work so maybe you can give this guy Chuck some of your money since you seem to be the only one that thinks what he did was ok.

You are going back on ignore because that seems to bother you the most when people simply don't respond to your misguided drivel.
As Wesley Snipes says "See ya, and I wouldn't want to be ya."
 
corvette1340 said:
You know, it really is sad when I intentionally put you on ignore to avoid you and I get 10 pm's telling me that you are still taking cheap shots at me any chance you get when I haven't said one word to you or about you. Why in the world would I give this crook 30K of my hard earned money? I don't even know him and think he is scum. Are you on crack? Seriously, step away from the crack pipe and go back to work so maybe you can give this guy Chuck some of your money since you seem to be the only one that thinks what he did was ok.

You are going back on ignore because that seems to bother you the most when people simply don't respond to your misguided drivel.
As Wesley Snipes says "See ya, and I wouldn't want to be ya."
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Is that the best you can do? Geezy peezy, go back to shoving your beak with those wonderful fast-food hamburgers that your six-figure salary buys. What a joke you are.

I won't even lower myself to your "crack pipe" comments, but if you want to talk about PMs and green rep, I have received no less than 10 green reps from persons who thanked me for responding to you. In fact, the common descriptive adjective used when your name was mentioned was "asshole."

Now go take some pictures, and let us all see what color urinal you're using today, or maybe we will all be privileged to know how your bowel movement went this morning. It must have not been good because you are still full of it.

JAM
 
jay helfert said:
...Chuck is a grown man and he was aware at all times what he was doing.
... Chuck received fully paid entries from 60 players. That is 60 times $400 each for a total of $24,000.
In addition he collected all the money at the gate, which I estimate to be in excess of $10,000 easily. And there were may raffle tickets sold on a Diamond table that was awarded on Sunday. He did pay out approx. $15,000 to the bottom positions in the pay scale on Saturday. Where the rest of the money went, I have no idea. You do the math!
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This speaks volumes...
 
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