one piece cores
- Thread starter wabelly
- Start date
Gorilla glue will work but as a poster mentioned it is a foam and can't transmit vibration or feel as cleanly as a solid such as epoxy. Epoxy needs a gap of about .005" which allows a core that can fit through the hole and it doesn't require any clamping for strength.
Coating both surfaces won't be a problem if you:
1. add enough thickener such as Cab-O-Sil to the epoxy.
2. Roll the dowel on a piece of waxed paper covered with epoxy till it is completely
covered with glue
3. pour a couple ounces of the thickened glue into the hole and use the glue coated dowel to push the mass of glue up the core and catch the extra in a Dixie cup for use on the next core. While pushing the dowel through the core work it up and down and twist a little.
Wear rubber gloves, cover the work area with a protective material such as a scrap of plywood, TAPE OFF THE CENTERS ON THE DOWEL BEFORE GLUING and use denatured alcohol to clean off what you are going to use again. I usually cover the work area with strips of waxed paper and at the end I just crumple everything up and throw it away.
Coating both surfaces won't be a problem if you:
1. add enough thickener such as Cab-O-Sil to the epoxy.
2. Roll the dowel on a piece of waxed paper covered with epoxy till it is completely
covered with glue
3. pour a couple ounces of the thickened glue into the hole and use the glue coated dowel to push the mass of glue up the core and catch the extra in a Dixie cup for use on the next core. While pushing the dowel through the core work it up and down and twist a little.
Wear rubber gloves, cover the work area with a protective material such as a scrap of plywood, TAPE OFF THE CENTERS ON THE DOWEL BEFORE GLUING and use denatured alcohol to clean off what you are going to use again. I usually cover the work area with strips of waxed paper and at the end I just crumple everything up and throw it away.
RBC
Deceased
Paul,
I found a neat little trick for the center holes.
First, I wet the inside using the dauber I posted about earlier. I can completely wet the inside so it can soak and I don't get any dry areas. I wet the core the same way, again so I don't have any starved areas. Then, like you I use the core to push out any excess glue. However, the end of my core has a smaller tenon on the end. Just about .500" long and about .150" smaller in diameter. What happens is that the center of the tenon is above where the glue is pushed keeping it clean. Also, the glue rolls along between the bore and the side of the smaller tenon ensuring that I get even glue coverage all the way out the other side.
Thanks Paul and RB.
That's some solid process there.
I'd be interested to see if anyone argue gorilla glue is still the better way.
That's some solid process there.
I'd be interested to see if anyone argue gorilla glue is still the better way.
Doubtful. Can't argue with truth, logically speaking. That said, i'm still gonna use my poly glue (not GG). I core a component with it and it's solid, and rings true & solid like one piece of wood. While i'd certainly agree that epoxy is infinitely stronger & a better bond, I have seen nothing about poly that indicates that it's inferior. My core fits pretty tight. It is hard to push through without the glue. The glue actually lubricates the core. There's simply no room for expansion, and as such there is no foaming. If you have foam between your core & host, you are doing it wrong, IMO.
Again, i'm not doubting at all that epoxy is stronger, harder, better in every way. All i'm saying is, at what point does it no longer matter? If somebody's having trouble with poly, it's likely their method, not the glue. A core in bore, even on a handle, is a tremendous glue surface. If done correctly, the bond is secure & the cured component pings like it's solid. There's no foam dampening the flow of energy, obviously, and apparent. So long as this is achieved, does it really matter what adhesive was used? I have followed this thread from the beginning & keep shaking my head at all the technical BS. It either works or it doesn't. Your cored component is either solid & sound, or it is not. If it is, then how do you measure "better"? Easy answer, you can't. Yes there possibly & probably is better than poly, but is it enough better to notice? I use poly & my cues ping, play great. I have used epoxy & the cues pinged, played great. The difference between epoxy & poly for me was that one I had to mix & the other I just pour out of the bottle. I found absolutely no difference in playability. I found no difference in ease of construction. I found no failure with either. More than anything, this thread looks like a "who's dick is bigger" contest. Why discount what somebody does if it produces the same end result? Just because you prefer one way over the other, or cannot find the success with one adhesive that somebody else does, doesn't mean their way isn't just as good & serves the same purpose. Look at aqua, I see blue & you see green. Who's right & who's wrong? More importantly, why does it matter? I'm the only one building Sugartree cues, and no matter how superior your adhesive is to mine in YOUR cues, I still use what is best for MY cues.
And a huge thank you to Thomas, Paul, & Royce for sharing your experience & expertise. Some great ideas were shared & it's nice to see some vets contributing......though I fully understand that doing so sometimes feels like you are being pecked to death by a duck.
Last edited:
RBC
Deceased
Eric
I think you hit the nail on the head.
Polyurethane glues are actually stronger than epoxy, IF the joint is tight. If not, then epoxy is better.
If your core is nice and tight, then Poly is the way to go. Remember, the foam only occurs where there is air and if your joint is tight, then you won't have any air. Cores can be very difficult to get "clamp tight" because you can't really clamp them. They need to almost be an interference fit to start with.
It was good to see you at the SBE. I hope you'll be around ni Vegas next month too. Stop by and say hi!
do it like billy bob
Again, i'm not doubting at all that epoxy is stronger, harder, better in every way. All i'm saying is, at what point does it no longer matter? If somebody's having trouble with poly, it's likely their method, not the glue. A core in bore, even on a handle, is a tremendous glue surface. If done correctly, the bond is secure & the cured component pings like it's solid. There's no foam dampening the flow of energy, obviously, and apparent. So long as this is achieved, does it really matter what adhesive was used? I have followed this thread from the beginning & keep shaking my head at all the technical BS. It either works or it doesn't. Your cored component is either solid & sound, or it is not. If it is, then how do you measure "better"? Easy answer, you can't. Yes there possibly & probably is better than poly, but is it enough better to notice? I use poly & my cues ping, play great. I have used epoxy & the cues pinged, played great. The difference between epoxy & poly for me was that one I had to mix & the other I just pour out of the bottle. I found absolutely no difference in playability. I found no difference in ease of construction. I found no failure with either. More than anything, this thread looks like a "who's dick is bigger" contest. Why discount what somebody does if it produces the same end result? Just because you prefer one way over the other, or cannot find the success with one adhesive that somebody else does, doesn't mean their way isn't just as good & serves the same purpose. Look at aqua, I see blue & you see green. Who's right & who's wrong? More importantly, why does it matter? I'm the only one building Sugartree cues, and no matter how superior your adhesive is to mine in YOUR cues, I still use what is best for MY cues.
i have been saying this every since i joined this forum, but i was told if you dont do it like billy bob you are wrong.
i.e. don't try anything different
Again, i'm not doubting at all that epoxy is stronger, harder, better in every way. All i'm saying is, at what point does it no longer matter? If somebody's having trouble with poly, it's likely their method, not the glue. A core in bore, even on a handle, is a tremendous glue surface. If done correctly, the bond is secure & the cured component pings like it's solid. There's no foam dampening the flow of energy, obviously, and apparent. So long as this is achieved, does it really matter what adhesive was used? I have followed this thread from the beginning & keep shaking my head at all the technical BS. It either works or it doesn't. Your cored component is either solid & sound, or it is not. If it is, then how do you measure "better"? Easy answer, you can't. Yes there possibly & probably is better than poly, but is it enough better to notice? I use poly & my cues ping, play great. I have used epoxy & the cues pinged, played great. The difference between epoxy & poly for me was that one I had to mix & the other I just pour out of the bottle. I found absolutely no difference in playability. I found no difference in ease of construction. I found no failure with either. More than anything, this thread looks like a "who's dick is bigger" contest. Why discount what somebody does if it produces the same end result? Just because you prefer one way over the other, or cannot find the success with one adhesive that somebody else does, doesn't mean their way isn't just as good & serves the same purpose. Look at aqua, I see blue & you see green. Who's right & who's wrong? More importantly, why does it matter? I'm the only one building Sugartree cues, and no matter how superior your adhesive is to mine in YOUR cues, I still use what is best for MY cues.
i have been saying this every since i joined this forum, but i was told if you dont do it like billy bob you are wrong.
i.e. don't try anything different
The point being made, is that if you do the core to tight tolerances, it probably really doesn't matter.
But if you are using GG to fill up loose tolerances, you are probably giving upsomething. Whether it be strength or tone.
Eric goes to great lengths to get the proper fit. A lot of guys
blow a hole thru the wood and let the tolerances fall where they may.
GG will fill er in. That's what I was trying to point out.
Google , match grade rifle barrels and see how hard it is fror those guys to hold really close tolerances.
Then think 16inch gun drill on the end of a taig tailstock.
But if you are using GG to fill up loose tolerances, you are probably giving upsomething. Whether it be strength or tone.
Eric goes to great lengths to get the proper fit. A lot of guys
blow a hole thru the wood and let the tolerances fall where they may.
GG will fill er in. That's what I was trying to point out.
Google , match grade rifle barrels and see how hard it is fror those guys to hold really close tolerances.
Then think 16inch gun drill on the end of a taig tailstock.