One Pocket Lessons (expensive)

30 an hour

Bill, dude!

I don't want to get myself into hot water, but I take some offense with your initial post and feel compelled to respond. I really enjoy receiving instruction and would have been a potential one-pocket student of yours in the area.

I take private one-on-one lessons in Manhattan -- the rate is $30/hr + $17/hr table time. Pretty reasonable, I think.

To put this in perspective for you: my instructor is a young open speed snooker & 3 cushion player who retired a few years back after moving to the States and became a mother. She truly enjoys sharing her game and is incredibly generous with her help and support. Not only do I get a class player telling me how to handle things, I also get the pleasure of watching an impeccably dressed, gorgeous woman move around the table.

Can you out-teach her? That isn't here nor there. My arrangement isn't unique at all, there is an incredible amount of talent around NYC giving excellent insight at decent rates.

I'm not questioning your skills, but I find your initial post insulting to area teachers and their current students. The lawyer I keep on retainer gets $200/hr -- can you save my game the way he saved my life time and again? I'm not being flip, I'm being honest. Any older, experienced player I respect is normally so excited that a younger player is even interested in 14.1 or 1 pocket that buying them a beer is all it takes to get more great advice than the mind can absorb in one session.

Now look, I don't want to get off on the wrong foot and I definitely don't want to discourage you from sharing what you have to offer. Everyone needs to make a buck... I get that. I just wish all these "talented" instructors could get over their egos and make it accessible for people who truly love the game and want to learn. How else is this sport going to grow? And if you can command so much money, what are you doing soliciting students in the main forum of AZ?

Can you put a value on great instruction? Absolutely not. Can you put a value on having an excellent teaching reputation and some class about advertising it? You can answer that one. You should go visit the private sports clubs and university clubs in the City... that's the only market to be seduced by lessons advertised as being "expensive".

Next time I have $200 to spend on pocket billiards instruction, I think I'll buy half an ounce and call up Joe Rogan. The joke will still be on me, but at least I'd be laughing.

Hi,
I'm sure there is a going rate for various people in N.Y. and I'm sure they are earning every bit of it. Speaking for myself, I don't care what they charge. I'm a one pocket person. I know what to do in all situations, OR I can figure it out. That's what I teach, HOW TO THINK. Not how to shoot. The instructors in N.Y. are probably teaching pool in general. I'm a more specific instructor. I don't want to work for how much they do. That's America, it's called free enterprise and If I don't get one customer, That's my story and I'm sticking to it. In lessons as well as life you usually get what you pay for. I could give lessons to a pro nineball player and teach him one pocket. He'd probably become a pro at one pocket.
thanks, and I'd probably spend the 200 you gave me on the same thing.
Bill
thanks, Bill
 
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forum posting

JerseyBill, though you’ve been a member here since 6/09 you haven’t posted much, so let me welcome to the boards. If I may offer a couple of things:

You would do better if you post your sales offerings in the proper forum. There is a For Sale forum for just that purpose and that's where this belongs really.

First off, recent events have made one thing clear: there are many here that are tired of having to wade through sales pitches while cruising the main forum. This is likely the reason for some of the replies you have received. Do this enough and the person quickly develops a rep for being nothing more than a spammer. It seems as though some members have gotten the idea that as long as they are not pitching slate or lumber then they are entitled to clog up the main forum with endless solicitations. It also seems as though many members are beginning to voice their displeasure. You may have unwittingly gotten caught up in this to an extent.

Secondly, it is just simply unfair to other instructors who limit the offering of their instructional materials or lessons to the For Sale forum where they belong. This includes bending the rules by having cronies post "reviews" of their experiences with the product or service.

Also, the For Sale forum has additional rules that protect sellers from cross marketing and critical opinions or negative remarks about the product/service (or marketing methods) that do not apply in the main forum. Most of the other forums, especially the main forum, are for open discussion and sharing of ideas, thoughts, opinions, and viewpoints and these rules do not apply. In the main forum your pitch is fair game for a wider range of viewpoints.

Lastly, if you look at the numbers, there are usually close to the amount of people (if not more) in the For Sale forum as in this forum. And this is where you will find the members who are actually looking to buy something.
----
I would also suggest that perhaps the best way to market yourself here would be to become a regular contributor to this board. The most successful, highly regarded, and sought after instructors around here seem to be the ones that make significant contributions to the membership. Guys like Bob Jewett, Dr. Dave, and Roger Long to name just a few. On the other hand those that are only here for themselves are equally well known, and not in a good way. You will find that sharing your knowledge of the game will only serve to impress us with your wisdom and create a demand for your services. Especially in one hole, your area of expertise, there are so many nuances to the game that you could give out gold nuggets of information every day for years and still only have touched the tip of the iceberg. A guy with your knowledge would be a valuable asset around here.

I’m always interested in learning about this great game and one pocket is certainly an area I know little about. While I’m pretty far away and a little too price sensitive for private lessons, I might be interested should you come out with a book or DVD. Of course, this is assuming it is posted in the For Sale forum. :grin-square:

You seem like a decent enough guy and those that know you have posted vouching for your credentials. I agree that a certificate from the BCA doesn’t mean much in and of itself and all things being equal would rather take lessons from someone as yourself who has accomplished something as a player or is known as a great instructor. I agree you are entitled to charge whatever you want for your services; the market will determine if it perceives value.

Please take my comments in the spirit of friendship they are intended.

Hope this helps, and I wish you the best of luck.

Hi,
Sorry, I'm new here and didn't know where to post. I did give it some thought and ended up making a mistake it seems.
Never wanted to bother people with long advertisements. I hate them myself. I thought a few chosen words would be okay, obviously that was worse than if I took the time to market it.
thanks for your info
Bill
 
Originally Posted by jrhendy
Bill, I am 70 and will play some if we come across each other. I go to the Derby, will be in Phoenix the end of April and Oklahoma (Shooters) in Sept if they have a tournament there. I live on the West Coast in No. Calif. If you ever get out this way and want to play let me know.

I have posted my thoughts on lessons on onepocket.org You may be a great teacher/player. I would try to find out for $200 a game - guarantee 5 games. John

Bill,

It appears you missed one post from John waiting for a responce. I just thought I'd bump it up for you again.

I do wish you well with your lessons and welcome to the forum. One suggestion, since you've given references, you might as well just tell us your whole name.

Dave



What 12squared/Dave said...I'm still waiting for that reply too - let's try another bump....:)

- Ghost
 
My thought also..

Originally Posted by jrhendy
Bill, I am 70 and will play some if we come across each other. I go to the Derby, will be in Phoenix the end of April and Oklahoma (Shooters) in Sept if they have a tournament there. I live on the West Coast in No. Calif. If you ever get out this way and want to play let me know.

I have posted my thoughts on lessons on onepocket.org You may be a great teacher/player. I would try to find out for $200 a game - guarantee 5 games. John





What 12squared/Dave said...I'm still waiting for that reply too - let's try another bump....:)

- Ghost

Yea this is exactly what I thought, Jersey Bill has responded to a lot but seems to have overlooked JR Hendy invitation to play, Whaddup with dat??
 
hi

I've seen instructors who can't play a lick either, and I wonder why they are teaching.... Not implying anyone, just saying. If I were a person looking for lessons, I'd want them from someone who's been to the top of the mountain looking down, not looking up from the bottom.

thing is pool is half shot selection.if any instuctor that doesnt or hasnt ever played any where near pro level thinks they can give lessons to a players as well as a pro can then i disagree.

anybody whos an a player already has a repeatable stroke and thousands of hours honing that stroke.

when i watch solid a players play 14.1,1hole 9ball one of the biggest things they need to change is shot selection,safety selection,cueball routes etc.

if someone is not or never has been a great player they will not be able to impart the same insight as say parica,archer etc on those facets of the game. im sure most instructors who are average players agree.
scott lee for example would be good to teach beginners how to stroke and get them started off in pool on the right foot.

on the other hand when scott said he would stand beside any pro as an instuctor i think he meant on stroking and fundamentals.he surely would not say he could teach the best way to play onepocket as well as say scott frost. likewise scott frost could not teach the basics as well as a guy like scott lee and do it as organized as scott lee etc.
 
Good Points

John,

You have some excellent points and I basically agree. Carefully choosing an instructor that fits the niche you are needing help in is far smarter than choosing an instructor that might not be strong in that area regardless of how good of an instructor he might be in another area.

There is a caveat to this though: Someone being a champion doesn't automatically make them a good choice as an instructor for every student. Take Efren for example. Still the man that I would pick in a long One Pocket gambling match against anyone and the last One Pocket champion I would send most people to for them to learn One Pocket. If you can't shoot and maneuver a cue ball like Efren can seeing the table like he does would be almost worthless. Likewise, not much point in sending somebody to a great banker that plays One Pocket well if the person seeking instruction has been taught the usual bias to avoid banks whenever possible.

People need to give a lot of thought to their strengths and weaknesses and where they really need to shore up their game before choosing an instructor. Most people wanting to improve their pattern play and routes would find you to be an excellent instructor as an example. I have no idea if you have the patience to teach a raw beginner stance and stroke and the raw basics of aiming though and it would seem a waste of a resource for you to spend much time with beginners anyway.

Hu


thing is pool is half shot selection.if any instuctor that doesnt or hasnt ever played any where near pro level thinks they can give lessons to a players as well as a pro can then i disagree.

anybody whos an a player already has a repeatable stroke and thousands of hours honing that stroke.

when i watch solid a players play 14.1,1hole 9ball one of the biggest things they need to change is shot selection,safety selection,cueball routes etc.

if someone is not or never has been a great player they will not be able to impart the same insight as say parica,archer etc on those facets of the game. im sure most instructors who are average players agree.
scott lee for example would be good to teach beginners how to stroke and get them started off in pool on the right foot.

on the other hand when scott said he would stand beside any pro as an instuctor i think he meant on stroking and fundamentals.he surely would not say he could teach the best way to play onepocket as well as say scott frost. likewise scott frost could not teach the basics as well as a guy like scott lee and do it as organized as scott lee etc.
 
Hi,
I'm sure there is a going rate for various people in N.Y. and I'm sure they are earning every bit of it. Speaking for myself, I don't care what they charge. I'm a one pocket person. I know what to do in all situations, OR I can figure it out. That's what I teach, HOW TO THINK. Not how to shoot. The instructors in N.Y. are probably teaching pool in general. I'm a more specific instructor. I don't want to work for how much they do. That's America, it's called free enterprise and If I don't get one customer, That's my story and I'm sticking to it. In lessons as well as life you usually get what you pay for. I could give lessons to a pro nineball player and teach him one pocket. He'd probably become a pro at one pocket.
thanks, and I'd probably spend the 200 you gave me on the same thing.
Bill
thanks, Bill

You make a very interesting point, and one that John just touched on. There is a huge difference between teaching someone how to play THE game of pool (in general) and teaching someone how to play A game of pool (in particular). I recall Dave Hemmah saying to me when I first asked him about lessons, "Do you want to learn how to play pool or do you want me to teach you how to play the game of 9 Ball?"
 
thing is pool is half shot selection.if any instuctor that doesnt or hasnt ever played any where near pro level thinks they can give lessons to a players as well as a pro can then i disagree.

I have to disagree with this. While there is little argument the pro may be able to excel at the ball making ability, patterns, speed, or all the intangebles that make them "pro" status, that has no bearing on if they can pass that information on to amateurs. I hear over and over how some people who take lessons from "pros" want refunds or think the lessons are not necessarily worth it. Just because you can play does not not mean you can teach...period. You may have all the skill in the world, but you might not have the ability to pass that information down. I can list examples of pros who have given lessons here in town (big names) that multiple people have called them horrible, and even asked for refunds.

Buzzed 10:57 rant out...
 
Hi,
I'm sure there is a going rate for various people in N.Y. and I'm sure they are earning every bit of it. Speaking for myself, I don't care what they charge. I'm a one pocket person. I know what to do in all situations, OR I can figure it out. That's what I teach, HOW TO THINK. Not how to shoot. The instructors in N.Y. are probably teaching pool in general. I'm a more specific instructor. I don't want to work for how much they do. That's America, it's called free enterprise and If I don't get one customer, That's my story and I'm sticking to it. In lessons as well as life you usually get what you pay for. I could give lessons to a pro nineball player and teach him one pocket. He'd probably become a pro at one pocket.
thanks, and I'd probably spend the 200 you gave me on the same thing.
Bill
thanks, Bill


Reminds me of a funny story from the mid-nineties. The business my brother owned offered a free first visit for people needing new systems. A business owner, an electrical contractor, insisted he wanted to pay for the first visit, the same fifteen dollars an hour he paid a nephew in college that worked on computers a little on the side. I told him he could have a free consultation or he could pay $190 an hour, there wasn't any pricing in between that without a service contract.

I have to agree, other people don't set my rates.

Hu
 
hi

I have to disagree with this. While there is little argument the pro may be able to excel at the ball making ability, patterns, speed, or all the intangebles that make them "pro" status, that has no bearing on if they can pass that information on to amateurs. I hear over and over how some people who take lessons from "pros" want refunds or think the lessons are not necessarily worth it. Just because you can play does not not mean you can teach...period. You may have all the skill in the world, but you might not have the ability to pass that information down. I can list examples of pros who have given lessons here in town (big names) that multiple people have called them horrible, and even asked for refunds.

Buzzed 10:57 rant out...

let me word it different. if someone plays pro speed they definitely have all the knowledge to pass on,whether they are good at passing on the knowledge is on them.
someone who has never played at or near pro speed does not have the full array of pool knowledge to pass on whether or not they are good at passing whatever info they do have.
that being said the lessor player could be the better teacher.
 
I'm trying to give bumper pool lessons and everyone's ignoring me!!?? I hold 8 World Titles in bumper pool and I'm only charging $400 an hour!!

Why isn't anyone taking me seriously?? Ok, never mind...
 
I'm trying to give bumper pool lessons and everyone's ignoring me!!?? I hold 8 World Titles in bumper pool and I'm only charging $400 an hour!!

Why isn't anyone taking me seriously?? Ok, never mind...

Don't forget about your 10 World Titles in Pocket Pool....
 
It is good to see the criticism that everone throws in for free. ALL 8 pages of it. If you have interest in learning call the man. If you dont, simply take no action.

The First step in learning is to LISTEN. One cannot listen his best whilst TALKING. Much less so if it is an "I am so smart and superior" attitude they are spitting out of the mouth.

So, there you have it. Worthless, meaningless attitude is FREE. Lessons cost money.
 
It is good to see the criticism that everone throws in for free. ALL 8 pages of it. If you have interest in learning call the man. If you dont, simply take no action.

The First step in learning is to LISTEN. One cannot listen his best whilst TALKING. Much less so if it is an "I am so smart and superior" attitude they are spitting out of the mouth.

So, there you have it. Worthless, meaningless attitude is FREE. Lessons cost money.

Lessons do cost money. I remember getting 1-pocket lessons from Steve Cook for $20 an hour. And that was the the economy was good!

Some AZ noob comes on here wanting more than what Buddy Hall charges? C'mon. All I gotta say it, brass ballz!
 
Jersey, we got off on bad footing but you sound like an okay guy and a good player. That list of stuff you gave as far as qualifications was just what I had in mind. I don't think listing any of that stuff right off the bat woulda killed you and it woulda saved a lot of those questions that seem to piss you off.

You can name good players you have played without putting them down or bragging. I'd definitely take 1p lessons from a guy who, for example, told everyone he gambled even with scott frost and lost 7-4. Or you don't even need to mention the score, just drop some names of who you've played.

I'm hoping you see where people like me are coming from here. I could literally have popped on here, written the exact same stuff, and people would be just as likely to come to me for lessons as they would to you... because nobody knows anything about either of us.

But now we got some credentials and some testimonials and I think your odds of getting students went up a thousand percent.

Good luck with your classes.
 
I give one pocket lessons.
I know the game as well as anyone.
I've got credentials. (successes)
I've got forty years experience.
I teach well.
I charge a lot. depends on where you are and how long you want lessons for.
bill




Bill ,

When I see this I think Ok! I`ll pm and find out more from the guy and see if he is who I need lessons from! Easy as that!!!

Some people on here just don`t get it! And for those who say nothing negative was said, Are full of it!

You don`t need to be BCA certified to give lessons , Though some on here would have you believe that.

I could fill the page with some of the actions from negative posters on here,

But instead I just say welcome and I hope you keep posting on here, for those of us that are willing to listen.


H.P.
 
I give one pocket lessons.
I know the game as well as anyone.
I've got credentials. (successes)
I've got forty years experience.
I teach well.
I charge a lot. depends on where you are and how long you want lessons for.
bill

Good luck Bill, I wish you the best sir :thumbup:
 
Bill, i think some might have to be over fifty and have played pool for a living to understand you are a oldschool player.Yes,knocking can come in many forms,many in the form of shadetree knocking. I can see cornbread making the same statements the same way you did. I respect someone that just blurts out what they think. John, I agree with you 100%. If someone never played at a high level, how can they teach what they never understood/learned themselfs except for the basic's? Bill,good luck on your teaching.
 
Dude Farmville Rocks!

That too. I'm gonna go play farmville now.

I think a person can learn something from every level of instruction. I have had lessons and found them to help my game. Pool is just a hobby for me but worth the investment for instruction none the less.

Glendale I'm gonna give you some old school lessons in some bummer pool real soon!:thumbup:
 
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