Open Letter To Mr Andrews, Mr Sugel and Mr Trudeau

Big Money said:
Open Letter To Mr. Andrews, Mr Sigel and Mr. Trudeau:

You all spouted off from day 1 on how this was going to be the greatest thing to happen to pool, and how you were not going to make the mistakes all the others have done in the past and how you were going to show us how to properly run a tournament.

This is what we have seen so far:

Shady dealings from day one on whom was "picked" to participate in the IPT.

Favoritism for elected players.

Mr Trudeau and Mr Andrews sat at dinner before the Vegas tournament slating in the spots of the players where evere they wished to put them. This is a known fact that was reported by JR Calvert of InsidePool. From what we were told, you awoke JR Calvert in the middle of the night to have him pull the article they did regarding this mismanagement of tournament bracketing.

Scout Man, Mr. Mark Trainer who is signing players to bogus contacts that rape the players, (which are actually worthless if you have signed it in the state of Nevada,because no known felon can venture into any gambling contract that includes management of players) .

Mr. Sigel and Mr. Trudeau, we all know that your have your hands in this pot with Mr. Trainer. We all know that YOU own a percentage of the players who were so eager to sign before they considered the consequences of the contact they signed with you. In some states it would be called racketeering.

There is no contact phone number for your so called office in the Chicago area. There are only email addresses. If there was really a office with a personal who forgot to mark "Saturday Delivery" on the Fed Ex parcel with the checks in it, there should be a phone where she called for the pick up at.

The ITP is full of crooks. Be forwarned people, Mr Trudeau is known for his scams, this is just one of them.

I don't know if your slanderous statements are true or not. Others have already jumped on your lack of credibility because you have not identified yourself. You could be simply another troll looking for a little recognition. It really doesn't matter.

I don't mind the inside data from an anonymous source. It would be nice if you identified yourself but even so, I'm glad you wrote. I think you should be more detailed in your innuendos for those of us NOT in the know.

In many sports, the players are chosen by individualized personal methods and I see nothing wrong with the IPT having their own method for choosing who gets in and who doesn't. EVERYONE had a chance to get in at the beginning but some chose to wait and see.

Your accusations that the IPT is filled with crooks is slanderous at best and if you loved this sport you wouldn't be saying things like that and would hope for the best. If there is any illegal things going on, the law can take care of it. Making derogatory statements like this hurts every pool player in the long wrong. So unless you have evidence that there is something illegal going on, please consider reserving your opinion to things that you are positive about.

Deno Andrews has always carried himself in a ethical and professional manner and I hope you were not referring to Deno as a crook.

I would love to hear some details that you know about that substantiate that something ILLEGAL was done, so please feel free to post some more.

Thanks,

JoeyA
 
Icon of Sin said:
I take back this entire post... (except for the remark about spelling Sigel wrong, that's getting old real quick)...

As of right now.... I'm all eyes and ears :eek:
While you are correcting someone in front of everyone, it's "really quickly", I believe. Is that correct JAM, lol?

unknownpro
 
unknownpro said:
While you are correcting someone in front of everyone, it's "really quickly", I believe. Is that correct JAM, lol?

unknownpro
Yeah, I like it the other way better.
 
hondo said:
Well, when I said a lot less than that about
KT on CCB a while back I got a PM threatening
to sue me. I immediately clammed up.
Made me wish I had posted anonymously.

KT should sue John Stossel too while he's at it :rolleyes: .

FWIW, there are a lot of "insider" facts that I know about many topics, players, and the IPT. They are things that I would not dare post in this or any forum out of respect for those involved.

Deno addressed the issues surrounding Mark Trainer during the chat on this web site prior to the World Open. I believe Deno when he says that their is no relationship between the IPT and Mark Trainer. However, I do believe that as the CEO of the IPT he has a duty to protect the players on his roster. That issue is for another thread.

Directly to "Big Money"
With more money you will find more people crawling out from beneath their rocks to take advantage of pool players. This is nothing new. I brought that up over a year ago before anybody had even heard of Mark Trainer. All of a sudden the hammer hits the nail and people are getting upset over all of this. What did you expect? Go to any tournament (local/regional/national) and you will find the same type of people trying to make an easy buck off of some player that doesn't know any better. If there is some sub-plot where KT & Sigel are on the take from these Mark Trainer deals, I want the movie rights. lol.

The IPT has stated publicly that they do not read internet forums. They don't reply to them either. If you're pissed off at Deno, send him a PM. I have. Believe it or not, he does respond. Whether or not you will get anywhere by doing so is debatable.

Since this thread was started I have recieved phone calls and PM's about most of your comments. Publicly I will state here that the IPT is not full of crooks. There are many qualified, educated, and dedicated people on the IPT staff and they don't deserve those comments. The IPT is making errors just like any new organization is expected to. Their pay issues seem to be the primary topic of discussion lately - I don't really think anybody knows what to make of it. I'm not owed a check so I'm not sitting at the front door chewing on my fingernails waiting for the postman. The players need to realize that without anything set up to protect them from this type of occurrence then the IPT can pretty much do as they wish. Perhaps they are just doing this to see if they can get away with - who knows? Eventually everybody will receive their checks and that will be a dead issue. The real issue seems to be - WHO OWNS THE IPT? That issue is more important than all of the others IMO.

There is too much going on right now to make any type of determination. There are several different qualifiers being played as I type this, there are checks in the mail, and they are less than one week removed from their biggest event thus far. Don't forget that Kevin Trudeau has the ability to dive in head first and swim through a vat of bovine diarrhea and come out smelling like a rose. Its what he is best at. Give him time to swim to the other side. One inside tip I will share is that the players will be receiving their checks very shortly, and holding up the checks and scheduling all of those qualifiers this week did not affect the US Open 9 Ball Championships. I hear they have close to 200 players this year.
 
wow this is all very interesting to me...I don't know much about the IPT, but i'm gonna keep reading.....sounds a little shady to me, but it could be a load of crap who knows.....I wouldn't doubt it if the natural cures guy has a bit of shadiness under the belt....i mean we all do somewhere, its a matter of using that shadiness to get what you want.....& so far it seems he's gotten what he wants, whether its legit or not....I dont know...
 
j_kronz79 said:
well i was one of the first people to post against the IPT. even though i am younger than most that post on any of these topics i am probably one of the most knowledgeable. all pool players will sooner or later take advantage of their situation or ruin it for everyone else. there are many players that have no business belonging on this tour before others. they continuinly take advantage because most players are nieve with their financial statis. so many of these people that are mentioned in this forum are exploiding that fact. that is why i feel many players were left out. when many, undeserving players, were givin cards. this will continue until the end of pool in the US.

j_kronz79...Of course you're entitled to your opinion. Here is mine, regarding your comments. Even though you say you are 'knowledgeable' and 'one of the first to post about the IPT', you obviously have not followed the IPT from the beginning. From the first mention of the proposed tour, it was made clear that the only way to sign up was via the internet. MOST serious 'pro-level' players do not own a computer, nor spend time on one. That's just a fact of life. Many that did were (rightfully so or not) skeptical about signing up in the first place. Once the applications were in (and there was a specific deadline), KT also stated that decisions on players were based on early applications AND enthusiastic attitudes reflected on the applications. That was his perfect right to make those decisions that way, as it is HIS money. Any tournament promoter may invite ANY players they wish, under any pretense, and for any reason. Unless it is an open tournament, where all you have to do is pony up an entry fee, the promoter can do as they choose. KT chose many of the, in your words, "undeserving" players because of their ATTITUDES, not necessarily their 'tournament titles'. IMO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, as it gave many great and near great players a chance at professional level play that they would never have ordinarily had, in their lives. Those that got picked, who are not the best players, will be weeded out in the year-to-year selection process. To say that they should never have gotten that chance is absurd, imo. The way the qualifier process has been structured, ANYONE (even you) may pay an entry fee (albeit a very substancial one), and take their chance at qualifying for "the big show". The players that made early decisions to 'jump on the bus' were rightfully given a first opportunity to participate. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
j_kronz79...Of course you're entitled to your opinion. Here is mine, regarding your comments. Even though you say you are 'knowledgeable' and 'one of the first to post about the IPT', you obviously have not followed the IPT from the beginning. From the first mention of the proposed tour, it was made clear that the only way to sign up was via the internet. MOST serious 'pro-level' players do not own a computer, nor spend time on one. That's just a fact of life. Many that did were (rightfully so or not) skeptical about signing up in the first place. Once the applications were in (and there was a specific deadline), KT also stated that decisions on players were based on early applications AND enthusiastic attitudes reflected on the applications. That was his perfect right to make those decisions that way, as it is HIS money. Any tournament promoter may invite ANY players they wish, under any pretense, and for any reason. Unless it is an open tournament, where all you have to do is pony up an entry fee, the promoter can do as they choose. KT chose many of the, in your words, "undeserving" players because of their ATTITUDES, not necessarily their 'tournament titles'. IMO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, as it gave many great and near great players a chance at professional level play that they would never have ordinarily had, in their lives. Those that got picked, who are not the best players, will be weeded out in the year-to-year selection process. To say that they should never have gotten that chance is absurd, imo. The way the qualifier process has been structured, ANYONE (even you) may pay an entry fee (albeit a very substancial one), and take their chance at qualifying for "the big show". The players that made early decisions to 'jump on the bus' were rightfully given a first opportunity to participate. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott like you said, simply first come first served. Everything has to start from "some" "thing" and KT made a choice. This 'poster' made a choice but it didn't go the way he liked it. I've got a shoulder he/she can cry on but it's a long way up if ya know what I mean.:D
 
Who the heck is Mark Trainer? Knowing that might help me make some sense of this thread. Googling, I see that a Mark Trainer played in a few qualifiers, but that's it.

Cory
 
Last edited:
Cory in DC said:
Who the heck is Mark Trainer? Knowing that might help me make some sense of this thread. Googling, I see that a Mark Trainer played in a few qualifiers, but that's it.

Cory

He is some guy who evidently got some players to sign him as their agent. I'm pretty sure there are extensive threads in the IPT section about it.

Regards,
Koop
 
Timberly said:
I won't sit here and tell people to take this person at face value because I haven't confirmed what I've heard yet and as I stated in the thread about Trainer, I don't want to post hearsay. I want to confirm things and post responsibly. Until I've done that, I won't confirm anything this person has said, but I will confirm that I've been told some of the things they've said.

Timberly,

Have you found anything out yet? We are awaiting to hear what you have come up with!

Enquiry minds want to know! :)
 
Big Money said:
Open Letter To Mr. Andrews, Mr Sigel and Mr. Trudeau:

You all spouted off from day 1 on how this was going to be the greatest thing to happen to pool, and how you were not going to make the mistakes all the others have done in the past and how you were going to show us how to properly run a tournament.

This is what we have seen so far:

Shady dealings from day one on whom was "picked" to participate in the IPT.

This has already been addressed, here, as well as in other threads ad nauseum.

Favoritism for elected players.

Do you mean Mike Sigel? There would be no tour without him anyway, so throwing him some big bones hasn't hurt anyone.

Mr Trudeau and Mr Andrews sat at dinner before the Vegas tournament slating in the spots of the players where evere they wished to put them. This is a known fact that was reported by JR Calvert of InsidePool. From what we were told, you awoke JR Calvert in the middle of the night to have him pull the article they did regarding this mismanagement of tournament bracketing.

I would imagine that drawing in 200 players would take some time, so they might as well have dinner. They had deadlines to meet. The draw was pretty fair except maybe one or 2 groups. OTOH, a few were quite deadly, so it could have been random. The women and HOFers were all drawn into separate groups.

Scout Man, Mr. Mark Trainer who is signing players to bogus contacts that rape the players, (which are actually worthless if you have signed it in the state of Nevada,because no known felon can venture into any gambling contract that includes management of players) .

Do you really know what the contracts ask for? I talked to Mark in Reno and he said he renegotiated all the contracts with the top players and they are all very happy now. As far as the felon angle, I have seen the report that a Mark Trainer ran a telemarketing business that sent him to jail. I don't know for a fact that it is the same Mark Trainer. I do know for a fact there are several Linda Carters in the world and would hate to be confused for one that was a felon. :eek: If you do a search for Mark Trainer, several come up, but none with a bad history that I could tell from the first page.

Mr. Sigel and Mr. Trudeau, we all know that your have your hands in this pot with Mr. Trainer. We all know that YOU own a percentage of the players who were so eager to sign before they considered the consequences of the contact they signed with you. In some states it would be called racketeering.

Are you referencing MT's contracts or the IPT's? I can assure you that there was nothing untoward in the IPT's contract.

Mark's goal seems to be to get together a large enough contingent of good players to make an impression on huge corporations to be able to market. He says that by themselves, they are worth nothing in corporate America, but that by having a stable of players to offer, then they can go for the really big money for endorsements and ads, like Coca Cola and Nike. To further that end, he has an exclusive contract with Athlete's First, an athletic management company that manages a lot of pro players in several sports. He must have something they want to take him on. Mark is also stuck a lot of money trying to get several players qualified and footing living expenses for 20-some players.


There is no contact phone number for your so called office in the Chicago area. There are only email addresses. If there was really a office with a personal who forgot to mark "Saturday Delivery" on the Fed Ex parcel with the checks in it, there should be a phone where she called for the pick up at.

I agree, but have you ever tried to find a phone number for amazon.com? They are here in Seattle and you can't find a number for them! That's a pretty large company, too. Many internet companies only put a reply field on their website or an email address instead of a phone number. I believe the IPT staff works out of the Natural Cures office space.

The ITP is full of crooks. Be forwarned people, Mr Trudeau is known for his scams, this is just one of them.

The acronym is IPT, not ITP, and I wouldn't go calling the whole shebang a bunch of crooks. That does a disservice to the many men and women who are trying to do a good job and have done so by putting on several spectacular tournaments.

If you think you are warning people away from the IPT, I think the ones that are leery are going to stay away anyway and the ones that support the IPT are going to stay loyal unless something major happens that warrants caution or the end of their support.
 
Linda, if Mark is trying to get all of these endorsements, etc. for the pros, why are many of the Filipino players who signed up for it still so angry? Yes, they are still angry, as in pissed off right now. This is a fact.
 
cuetechasaurus said:
Linda, if Mark is trying to get all of these endorsements, etc. for the pros, why are many of the Filipino players who signed up for it still so angry? Yes, they are still angry, as in pissed off right now. This is a fact.
After Vegas the Filipinos ended up with an unexpected but greatly appreciated "manager". I know that this person is the mgr for a couple of them but I don't know about all of them. This person speaks their language, and already has a reputation as being "player friendly". The players like him because he's always been kind to them and helped them look out for their best interest as opposed to treating them like degenerates as a lot of un-named people have and do treat the players like this.

Since this person and the Filipinos have come together, there have been some changes. After having a lawyer look into things it was discovered that Mark can enter into these agreements legally. I believe Mark has a partner whose name is listed as the owner of the business. (I'm not a 100% on the details but it's something to that effect. Mark is entitled to make a legal living and support himself) Mark may not legally be able to own that type of company but he can work for one. That's the gist of what I was told on the matter of whether Mark could legally sign these players due to his criminal record. (Yes Linda, this Mark Trainer is a convicted felon. He's admitted it to players that have questioned him on it. ;) )

This new Filipino player Representative worked diligently with Mark Trainer to renegotiate the players contracts. I was told by this person that anyone that holds a tour card that signed with Mark got a renegotiation of contract to where all the contracts are now between 20 to 25%. (Helluva lot better than 40, wouldn't you say?) As for the players that do not have a tour card... they did not get a renegotiated contract because they're a higher risk to Mark. They're not "guaranteed" money like the card holders are.

This should clear up some of the player contract ordeal and the folks that genuinely care about the well being of their friends should have a little more piece of mind about this. I had been told almost verbatim what "Big money" said about Mark not being able to legally enter into a contract like this due to this conviction. I only found out yesterday that he can.

At this point I can't comment on anything else in the original post. Maybe later today I'll be able to confirm some more things.
 
Scott Lee said:
j_kronz79...Of course you're entitled to your opinion. Here is mine, regarding your comments. Even though you say you are 'knowledgeable' and 'one of the first to post about the IPT', you obviously have not followed the IPT from the beginning. From the first mention of the proposed tour, it was made clear that the only way to sign up was via the internet. MOST serious 'pro-level' players do not own a computer, nor spend time on one. That's just a fact of life. Many that did were (rightfully so or not) skeptical about signing up in the first place. Once the applications were in (and there was a specific deadline), KT also stated that decisions on players were based on early applications AND enthusiastic attitudes reflected on the applications. That was his perfect right to make those decisions that way, as it is HIS money. Any tournament promoter may invite ANY players they wish, under any pretense, and for any reason. Unless it is an open tournament, where all you have to do is pony up an entry fee, the promoter can do as they choose. KT chose many of the, in your words, "undeserving" players because of their ATTITUDES, not necessarily their 'tournament titles'. IMO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, as it gave many great and near great players a chance at professional level play that they would never have ordinarily had, in their lives. Those that got picked, who are not the best players, will be weeded out in the year-to-year selection process. To say that they should never have gotten that chance is absurd, imo. The way the qualifier process has been structured, ANYONE (even you) may pay an entry fee (albeit a very substancial one), and take their chance at qualifying for "the big show". The players that made early decisions to 'jump on the bus' were rightfully given a first opportunity to participate. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Thank you, Scott. Well said.
Tammie Jones
 
rackmsuckr said:
I would imagine that drawing in 200 players would take some time, so they might as well have dinner. They had deadlines to meet. The draw was pretty fair except maybe one or 2 groups. OTOH, a few were quite deadly, so it could have been random. The women and HOFers were all drawn into separate groups.
Linda, you just made 2 excuses for them sitting down to dinner doing the draw by hand. "It takes time to do the draw" and "they had deadlines". You know that I usually agree with you but I can't this time. IMO there is no excuse for the way the draw was handled. Drawings for pool tournaments, in order to fair and viewed as legitimate, must be RANDOM. If I'm not mistaken, last yr the US Open either filled up or was just short of filling up... that's somewhere between 200 & 256 players. If Barry of all people can pull off a legitimate, random drawing of 200+ players, don't you think the IPT could?

I know you yourself have run tournaments, as have I.... would you ever have dreamed of taking the list of players out of the pool room to sit over dinner (with someone that has a great interest in seeing a particular player do well) and then you and this person just start putting names wherever you see fit? I know that not only did it never cross my mind to do something other than an open draw where many could see me draw the number and put it on the chart, but the players probably would've kicked my a$$ if I had even entertained the idea of some behind closed doors, do as I want draw.

No wonder they don't want to hire the people from the pool world. Their excuse has been that all of us have always done it wrong so why would they hire "us" from the pool world. Considering some of the things that have happened like this shady draw and a few other things that I have mentioned in the past, it would appear that they should've hired a few people from the pool world to actually help keep them on the up & up. Someone with a background in the pool world would've told them that by doing the draw the way they did, they would lose A LOT of credibility. Folks, don't bother telling me that they've got Sigel to help guide them in the ways of the pool world... some of the audacities have benefitted the mouthy SOB and he needs every little bit of help he can get if he's going to retain his tour card.
 
Timberly said:
I was told by this person that anyone that holds a tour card that signed with Mark got a renegotiation of contract to where all the contracts are now between 20 to 25%. (Helluva lot better than 40, wouldn't you say?) As for the players that do not have a tour card... they did not get a renegotiated contract because they're a higher risk to Mark. They're not "guaranteed" money like the card holders are.

They renegotiated down to 25% of the players' prize money?? That's still ridiculous. I don't know Trainer's cost structure or exactly what services he's providing, but sports agents typically don't take a percentage fee of prize money. Especially not a fee that high.

The players may be better off breaching the original contract and letting Trainer sue them. He'd be hard pressed to find a court that would uphold his original 40% fees.
 
tsw_521 said:
They renegotiated down to 25% of the players' prize money?? That's still ridiculous. I don't know Trainer's cost structure or exactly what services he's providing, but sports agents typically don't take a percentage fee of prize money. Especially not a fee that high.

The players may be better off breaching the original contract and letting Trainer sue them. He'd be hard pressed to find a court that would uphold his original 40% fees.
I agree that it's still a very stiff percentage but it is better than 40%. The players should've never signed to begin with but they were really mislead. They were in a foreign country where they do not speak the language. (just this very moment I remembered a question that I wanted to ask the person I was talking to about this...dang it!) It was rumored that the original talk behind closed doors where the contracts were signed, was done so with an interpreter that Trainer provided. I'll have to work on getting that confirmed but that was the last that I heard about that. It wasn't known if the Filipinos were told that they couldn't use an interpreter of their choosing or if they simply trusted Mark's. I'll try to confirm that this afternoon.

The fact of the matter is that they did sign the d@mn thing and they're stuck with it. I don't agree with 20 to 25% either... in this type of situation, it is my understanding that someone in Mark's position would get 10% of whatever endorsements he was able to get the players. If they're stuck in these BS contracts, it's better that they're stuck at 20% than 40%.
 
strange deal

From what I am reading Mark Trainer is going out of pocket quite a bit on some of the players and with no guarantee of any return, or very little. It sounds like some of the players would not even be playing due to financial constraints without their deals with MT. 75% or even 60% of something still beats 100% of nothing by a bunch.

It does sound like MT made a grab for a piece of the pie but it also sounds like he was doing some gambling with his own dollars, or those of the company he represents which I suspect is still essentially himself.

Elvis gave the colonel fifty percent all of his life and never thought it was a bad deal because without the colonel there might well have never been an "ELVIS"

Hu


tsw_521 said:
They renegotiated down to 25% of the players' prize money?? That's still ridiculous. I don't know Trainer's cost structure or exactly what services he's providing, but sports agents typically don't take a percentage fee of prize money. Especially not a fee that high.

The players may be better off breaching the original contract and letting Trainer sue them. He'd be hard pressed to find a court that would uphold his original 40% fees.
 
Isn't an "Open Letter" one that is signed by the author? Or else, it isn't a letter but just a cheap shot.

I'm not saying it isn't true or false, just that is wasn't done correctly, imho.

Jeff Livingston
 
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