Open Letter to the WPA

JAM said:
I just finished reading an article entitled "On-Court Brawl Trips Up China's Asian Games Work": Article in Taiwan News. [retrieved 7 November 2010]

Here is excerpt from the article that is disconcerting:

In Doha four years ago, China claimed 165 of the 428 golds...The delegation will include 35 Olympic gold medalists, many hailing from sports Chinese have traditionally dominated such as diving, gymnastics, table tennis and badminton. The hosts were also expected to perform well in some non-Olympic sports such as billiards, where the team features the wildly popular snooker player Ding Junhui.

This is the WPA website which lays out its constitution for the organization: WPA-pool.com

Article 2, Aims and Objectives, subsection (iii) says: To encourage the development of all pool-billiard disciplines as an international sport.

Article 2, Aims and Objectives, subsection (v) says: To adopt a sports policy which is not in conflict with the IOC’s rules as set forth in the Olympic Charter.

In the WPA's Constitution, Article 2.1, Aims, subsection (vii), it says, As a founding divisional member of the WCBS, the WPA recognises the WCBS as the world governing body of billiard sports with regards to their association to the IOC, GAISF, ARISF, ASOIF and multiple sports events.

Here is the WCBS website: World Confederation of Billiard Sports.

With all these pool federations, organizations, and entities, to include the BCA, I do not understand why pool is not in the Olympics. Is the WPA making strides in this area? What are they doing in this regard? How come this topic is not addressed very often?

Reading the above-referenced article stating billiards is a "non-Olympic sport" waves a red flag that, indeed, more needs to be done. The WPA requests a sanction fee to be paid by pool tournament organizers, which I think is 10 percent of the total tournament purse, but that is subject to check.

It would be nice to hear from the WPA from time to time about their efforts to get billiards recognized. A press statement or news article in the pool print media would be nice. If this goal is ever accomplished, I think it just might be the change agent to elevate pool and have it recognized as a legitmate sport, which might bring in more sponsors if they see pool at the Olympic games.

What do you think? :confused:
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I think in the rest of the world, this is more of a priority than it is here the United States. Personally, I do not believe that I will see pool/billiards in the Olympics in my lifetime.

Several years ago during the IPT, I made several posts that outlined all of this, the organizations, the process of IOC recognition, etc. Its all in there and retrievable with the search function. Go back and read some of that stuff and you will see that between then and now there has been little if any progress here in North America.

In North America, we choose to exist beneath a cloak of ignorance, and that ignorance is fueled by a lack of organization. The lack of organization is fueled by immaturity and selfishness. We (North America) are the wayward step children of the billiard world. The WPA and WCBS still love and care about us despite our rebelliousness, and they just say a prayer every every night in hopes that finally learn the lesson of "selfishness trumps progress".

That is about as far as I will go with my opinion on these organizations. In the past few years I have taken a giant step back from all of this stuff. I don't really comment or participate in conversations about the politics of pool anymore. IMO, there is no solution. The back and forth banter creates hostility and indifference, not progress.

A few years ago I finally came to a point where I lost faith in the world of pool's ability and maturity to see the big picture - the universal picture. That lack of maturity and inability to see the big picture creates potholes on the road to progress. The results of that has created casualties. My motivation to make a difference is one of those casualties.

There was a lot of freedom gained when I let go of all that nonsense. I grew tired trying to figure out who was a real friend, and who was shaking my hand while stabbing me in the back. These days, I have trained myself to not give a $hit about a lot of this stuff. It takes up too much energy. I just play and teach pool. I leave the big issues to the people that get paid to worry about all of that stuff. Most days I screw my cue together, and unless I have to call a shot, I really don't say much. The entire world of pool could go to hell in hand basket tomorrow (for the 100th time) and it probably wouldn't phase me at all.


PS (to JAM): Dancing with the stars? lol... I think Earl could win that show! LOL,, and I also think it would be interesting to see Alex Pagualayan on Celebrity Apprentice - that could create some interesting board room conversations.
 
Blackjack said:
I think in the rest of the world, this is more of a priority than it is here the United States. Personally, I do not believe that I will see pool/billiards in the Olympics in my lifetime.

Several years ago during the IPT, I made several posts that outlined all of this, the organizations, the process of IOC recognition, etc. Its all in there and retrievable with the search function. Go back and read some of that stuff and you will see that between then and now there has been little if any progress here in North America.

In North America, we choose to exist beneath a cloak of ignorance, and that ignorance is fueled by a lack of organization. The lack of organization is fueled by immaturity and selfishness. We (North America) are the wayward step children of the billiard world. The WPA and WCBS still love and care about us despite our rebelliousness, and they just say a prayer every every night in hopes that finally learn the lesson of "selfishness trumps progress".

That is about as far as I will go with my opinion on these organizations. In the past few years I have taken a giant step back from all of this stuff. I don't really comment or participate in conversations about the politics of pool anymore. IMO, there is no solution. The back and forth banter creates hostility and indifference, not progress.

A few years ago I finally came to a point where I lost faith in the world of pool's ability and maturity to see the big picture - the universal picture. That lack of maturity and inability to see the big picture creates potholes on the road to progress. The results of that has created casualties. My motivation to make a difference is one of those casualties.

There was a lot of freedom gained when I let go of all that nonsense. I grew tired trying to figure out who was a real friend, and who was shaking my hand while stabbing me in the back. These days, I have trained myself to not give a $hit about a lot of this stuff. It takes up too much energy. I just play and teach pool. I leave the big issues to the people that get paid to worry about all of that stuff. Most days I screw my cue together, and unless I have to call a shot, I really don't say much. The entire world of pool could go to hell in hand basket tomorrow (for the 100th time) and it probably wouldn't phase me at all.


PS (to JAM): Dancing with the stars? lol... I think Earl could win that show! LOL,, and I also think it would be interesting to see Alex Pagualayan on Celebrity Apprentice - that could create some interesting board room conversations.
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Reading your post, Blackjack, I felt like I was on an emotional roller-coaster, and you know what, I, too, have experienced the same thoughts and feelings about pool over the years.

Would love to see Alex on Celebrity Apprentice. What a hoot! :grin-square:

When I see the saved Chilean miner on the night talk shows singing Elvis Presley and Manny Pacquiao the boxer as the latest new darling of the media, I do think some pool personalities would be entertaining for mainstream TV viewers and would help popularize pool, if ever given the chance.

Why have a WPA, then, if pool is forever doomed to be a game, not a sport? If it's a game to be played on leagues and weekend tournaments, then maybe it's time to face reality, as dismal and sad as that may seem.
 
JAM said:
At one time, I remember Neils Feijen said he was sponsored by his country's Olympic Committee. Well, if pool ain't in the Olympics, why do they sponsor him? I don't get it. :confused:
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There are international competitions for billiards based on nationality. So some governments support them. For example: Thorsten Holmann

http://thorstenhohmann.com/about/biography/

Thorsten graduated from his school in 1997 and decided to go to a school of further education; however, a few months into his study, the German Army offered him a spot in their special sport corps. Thorsten didn’t hesitate. He quit school, joined the army in the spring of 1998 and never looked back.

After passing the two-month basic training in Sontra, Hessia, he was transferred to the sport support unit in Holzwickede, about a 2 ½ hour ride from Fulda.

German Army Sport’s Corps

The German Army Sports Corps is a very important institution for the sporting success in Germany and for Germany altogether. Most of the medals won by German athletes in World Championships, European Championships, German Championships and Olympic Games were won by members of the sports corps. It gives athletes in amateur sports, the opportunity to practice like professionals with a decent salary and full, free health insurance.
 
Scaramouche said:
There are international competitions for billiards based on nationality. So some governments support them. For example: Thorsten Holmann

http://thorstenhohmann.com/about/biography/

Thorsten graduated from his school in 1997 and decided to go to a school of further education; however, a few months into his study, the German Army offered him a spot in their special sport corps. Thorsten didn’t hesitate. He quit school, joined the army in the spring of 1998 and never looked back.

After passing the two-month basic training in Sontra, Hessia, he was transferred to the sport support unit in Holzwickede, about a 2 ½ hour ride from Fulda.

German Army Sport’s Corps

The German Army Sports Corps is a very important institution for the sporting success in Germany and for Germany altogether. Most of the medals won by German athletes in World Championships, European Championships, German Championships and Olympic Games were won by members of the sports corps. It gives athletes in amateur sports, the opportunity to practice like professionals with a decent salary and full, free health insurance.
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"Decent salary and full, free health insurance"? Wow, what a luxury to receive those perks. :eek:

Interestingly, the first time I ever spoke to Thorsten was at a Skins Billiards Championship in Atlantic City, I think it was. It's the one that Niels Feijen won $54,000. I asked him why he and other Europeans enjoyed competing in the United States, and he said that the United States offered more opportunities to play pool with higher payouts than Europe did at that time. I think that was in 2004 or 2005, subject to check.

Niels was backed for this tournament, and after taxes, expenses, and the chop-chop, I heard, hearsay, that he pocketed a mere $12,000 of $54,000 total prize monies when it was all said and done.
 
I just learned that this was given as a reply by the WPA as to why the rankings are not current and seem skewed on the WPA website. In particular, Darren Appleton seems to be ranked only 19th at this time, which should not be since he just won the U.S. Open.

This is the WPA's response:

The reason there were only three ranking events for men is simple, unfortunately there were only three tournaments that qualified as being ranking events. There was no 10-Ball WC, nor Philippine Open played, and the US Open didn't have enough added prize money this year to qualify it for ranking status. Next year we anticipate to have at least six and maybe as many as eight tournaments for men as ranking events, 8-Ball WC, 9-Ball WC, 10-Ball WC, Philippine Open, China Open, Bejing Open and hopefully the US Open and Emir Cup.

What a joke the WPA is. :angry:
 
Wpa

JAM said:
The reason there were only three ranking events for men is simple, unfortunately there were only three tournaments that qualified as being ranking events. There was no 10-Ball WC, nor Philippine Open played, and the US Open didn't have enough added prize money this year to qualify it for ranking status. Next year we anticipate to have at least six and maybe as many as eight tournaments for men as ranking events, 8-Ball WC, 9-Ball WC, 10-Ball WC, Philippine Open, China Open, Bejing Open and hopefully the US Open and Emir Cup.

The WPA fairly recently stated that the added money must be a minimum of $75,000 to be considered a world championship. There are no events in the US that meet that criteria.

The list just shows (again) that the world of pool is passing the US by. Since it is individual promoters that 'make it happen' in the US - and we get no government support, pool will not have many 'big events' with world titles.

The larger events in the US will tend to become events mostly entered by US players - which might be a good thing - at least most of the money would stay in the US - and the players need all the help they can get.

This is one more reason why CSI (CueSports International) is trying so hard to get the amateurs and professionals involved together (through USA Pool Leage). If we can get to 'critical mass', we could determine how many world class events we wanted to be held in the US.

Too many players (amateur & pro) and too many organizations do not want to get involved in the bigger picture - but that picture is shrinking because of their non participation.

Hopefully, we will be able to report giant leaps in our success - currently we are growing at a rapid pace - and have some giant plans to fulfill.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
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I do not think the United States should adhere to any further WPA sanctions or rules and regulations. This is ridiculous.

And while they're at it, I think the BCA should be renamed to the "Billiards Industry Congress of America." Leave the pool players out of it -- well, actually, they almost already do.
 
JAM,

Let me respond briefly to these posts. I serve on the board of directors of the WPA and am a member of the WPA-BCA committee. First, pool IS recognized by the Olympics. That is why players from many European and Asian countries get stipends, expenses and so on from their local governments and Olympic Committees. John Lewis, formerly of the BCA and now head of the ACS spent many years and countless man-hours attempting to get pool accepted as a feature Olympic game and to garner financial support for the game from the USOC. So it is not as if this effort has not been made. It has. But pool has some problems to overcome before the Olympics are going to put pool on center-stage and feature it as a Feature Olympic Game.

For one, it is simply not a popular spectator sport. Go count heads in any pro event and see what I mean. With the exception of two days at the US Open you will only rarely find a crowd in the stands. How many televised finals have you watched with empty stands in the background? Do you think the Olympic committee takes notice that there is no core audience for the game? I think they do and therefor believe that the fans who tout the game must someday learn to part with that ten bucks and go watch an event.

Next, the players must support the game. We are just now finishing a pro event in Florida where the Seminole tribe put in just as much added money ($50,000) as was in the US Open and only enough players showed up to fill something over half the field. Think the powers that be look at the brackets of major events around the world? I think they do and I think they shake their heads. And what does this say to the promoters themselves who put the money up? Are their efforts appreciated?

The problems with pool do not lay in the offices of the WPA or the BCA or any other set of initials. The problem is that there is only a small core of aficionados in pool who are willing to actually come out and watch or participate in the game. If the folks who purport to love the game do not want to participate, why should the IOC? Our base is way too narrow.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
JAM,

... it is simply not a popular spectator sport. Go count heads in any pro event and see what I mean. With the exception of two days at the US Open you will only rarely find a crowd in the stands. How many televised finals have you watched with empty stands in the background? Do you think the Olympic committee takes notice that there is no core audience for the game? I think they do and therefor believe that the fans who tout the game must someday learn to part with that ten bucks and go watch an event.

Exactly how many spectators do judo, badminton, and table tennis attract? Or any of many other olympic sports. Seriously?

The problem is that there is only a small core of aficionados in pool who are willing to actually come out and watch or participate in the game. If the folks who purport to love the game do not want to participate, why should the IOC? Our base is way too narrow.
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Again, I expect that the number of people who participate in pool world-wide FAR outnumbers all of the other examples I cited COMBINED. I expect the attendance for major pool events WORLD-WIDE far outnumbers those other sports as well.

As for the other arguments, they are certainly valid. But the Olympic Committees cannot state that pool isn't popular enough, world-wide. That would be a false premise.
 
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Jerry Forsyth said:
JAM,

Let me respond briefly to these posts. I serve on the board of directors of the WPA and am a member of the WPA-BCA committee. First, pool IS recognized by the Olympics. That is why players from many European and Asian countries get stipends, expenses and so on from their local governments and Olympic Committees. John Lewis, formerly of the BCA and now head of the ACS spent many years and countless man-hours attempting to get pool accepted as a feature Olympic game and to garner financial support for the game from the USOC. So it is not as if this effort has not been made. It has. But pool has some problems to overcome before the Olympics are going to put pool on center-stage and feature it as a Feature Olympic Game.

For one, it is simply not a popular spectator sport. Go count heads in any pro event and see what I mean. With the exception of two days at the US Open you will only rarely find a crowd in the stands. How many televised finals have you watched with empty stands in the background? Do you think the Olympic committee takes notice that there is no core audience for the game? I think they do and therefor believe that the fans who tout the game must someday learn to part with that ten bucks and go watch an event.

Next, the players must support the game. We are just now finishing a pro event in Florida where the Seminole tribe put in just as much added money ($50,000) as was in the US Open and only enough players showed up to fill something over half the field. Think the powers that be look at the brackets of major events around the world? I think they do and I think they shake their heads. And what does this say to the promoters themselves who put the money up? Are their efforts appreciated?

The problems with pool do not lay in the offices of the WPA or the BCA or any other set of initials. The problem is that there is only a small core of aficionados in pool who are willing to actually come out and watch or participate in the game. If the folks who purport to love the game do not want to participate, why should the IOC? Our base is way too narrow.
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I wonder how curling remains an olympic sport if spectator participation is a requirement. :)
 
Some background that may help with understanding this topic....

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has recognized cue sports as an organized international sport, with the international organization being the World Confederation of Billiard Sports (WCBS).

The WCBS has three major parts: pool, snooker and carom billiards. The world governing body for pool is the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA). For snooker the world organization is the International Billiards and Snooker Federation (IBSF). For carom billiards the Union Mondiale de Billard is the international governing body. Those three organizations provide officers and staff for the WCBS.

Several international games events already have cue sports competition. They include the World Games and the Asian Games. Not included are the Commonwealth Games and the Panamerican Games.

Being recognized by the IOC as an international sport can have major benefits for the national organizations. For one example, the Spanish national federation gets major funding from the government for promoting the sport because it has recognition from the Spanish National Olympic Committee.

It is very difficult for new events to get into the Olympic Summer Games. The IOC is reluctant to increase the total number of athletes beyond the current level slightly over 10,000. At one time there were demonstration events (such as bowling at the last LA Olympics), but those were eliminated as being distractions from the main events. This site lists the number of participants for each year of the modern Olympic Games.

Cue sports have some advantages when considered for inclusion in the Summer Games. Taken as a triad, they are far more international than sports like baseball. They are easy to stage, requiring a relatively small indoor area. They also have both male and female participants, although the ratio is not quite 1:1.

At one time, the BCA was actively seeking recognition by the US Olympic Committee. I think this was the main reason that BCA headquarters moved from Iowa City to Colorado Springs. Unfortunately, the BCA has since gotten different board members and different goals and directions, and as far as I know, it is no longer interested in gaining Olympic recognition in the US.

The USOC does fund sports/athletes that participate in international events. Beyond that, I think USOC recognition is very important for attracting non-billiard-industry sponsors.
 
Majic said:
I wonder how curling remains an olympic sport if spectator participation is a requirement. :)
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This is a brief excerpt from the Internet somewhere :

Hansen concedes that Saskatoon's time has come on the Brier-hosting front. The city set Brier attendance records both in 1989 (151,538) and 2000 (248,793). The latter total has been eclipsed just once in Brier history -- that in 2005, when Edmonton drew 281,985.

Saskatoon also hosted the 2004 Brier and attracted 238,129 paying customers, which is sixth all-time.

OK :
Read more: http://www.thestarphoenix.com/sports/Brier+returning+2012/3761978/story.html#ixzz14enfdMQk

For reference, these numbers would be total attendance for a week long round-robin then playoff tournament in facilities holding 12,000 to 15,000 people.

The Canadian national pool tournaments don't attract as many paying fans ...... to say nothing of the TV revenue or the $1M from the beer garden at the Brier 2004 !

Dave <--- contributed to that $1M :grin-square:

PS Curling, like pool, bowling, and a few other sports/games, is played in establishments that are often licensed to serve alcohol .... so it has that going for it ... which is nice.
 
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The last I heard the IOC was cutting back on events, even suspending baseball. Mostly economic reasoning.

I really cannot blame them. The perception is that pool is on the decline and has been for the last 20 years. Only the IPT (such as it was) provided a spike in pool's interest.

Perceptions are very difficult to overcome. US Pool still has a national stigma of neon lights, smoking and gambling.. basically it is a 'dirty game' played by 'dirty people'

Change the perception and maybe that will generate more interest, but IMO that will take a very long time.

The WPA worldwide has a better reputation than USA pool. But, that isn't saying too much at all.

USA tournaments have been only enough to provide a living for only the top players.

If the USA billiard industry (Billions in sales every year) would get on board with the national push to popularize pool.. with only 10% of the profits it garners from its sales, that would be enough to start the National tour with WPA sanctioning and maybe funding a billiard academy for the youth.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
The last I heard the IOC was cutting back on events, even suspending baseball. Mostly economic reasoning. ...

If the USA billiard industry (Billions in sales every year) ...
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I think the main reason to remove baseball was the lack of any real competition in the vast majority of countries. At the same time that baseball was dropped, rugby sevens and golf were added to the Summer Games for 2016. A search of "rugby golf" on the IOC website will get several articles. Other articles there show how the "athlete quotas" for various sports are adjusted for each Summer Games. Some sports gain in allocated spots while others lose spots.

According to the Brunswick Annual Report, the company's combined sales of bowling, billiards and foosball/air hockey were $337 million in 2009. The company had $3.1 million in operating earnings (roughly, profit) on those sales compared to a loss of $12.7 million in 2008. That doesn't make is seem like they're rolling in spare cash.
 
It is difficult to see things from my side of the fence in the pool world, when I read about how the WPA has handled pool rankings and rulemaking in recent times.

Three ranking events in one year? Darren Appleton gets ripped off for his international ranking, thanks to the willy-nilly rule change by the WPA, when he just won the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, one of the biggest, most heralded titles in the entire world. What is that all about?! :angry:

If pocket billiards is doomed to ever be in the Olympics, with the next opportunity for IOC (International Olympic Committee) consideration being in 2020, well, it looks to me like a dead fish in the Olympic waters.

I lost faith in the BCA years ago after seeing how they vote people in their Hall of Fame behind closed doors in the early 2000s era, withdrew funds to send American competitors to represent our country overseas in high-profile events, and stopped having their BCA Open invitational tournament. Everybody is hurting financially, not just the BCA. If anything, they should be pouring money into professional pool to keep it alive.

Professional pool has been dropped from the BCA plate, it seems to me, yet I'm sure there are BCA employees who continue to earn a yearly salary. Well, if they're good for industry members, then so be it, but I do not believe they should be the organizational entity representing the professional pool-playing public in North America anymore. In fact, at this stage of the game, who needs a representative for a WPA that seems to have their sights elsewhere and not in the United States?

The new rules of the WPA now state that $75,000 must be added for it to be a WPA "ranking" tournament? Since there aren't too many of those on American soil these days, then the WPA serves no purpose to American pool, IMO, since there ain't none of these tournaments on American soil, subject to check. Most American pro players cannot afford to go overseas to compete in the WPA's ranking tournaments, unless they have a corpulent stakehorse or are sponsored. That eliminates the majority of American pros.

This same line of thinking about the WPA is going around in pool circles on the other side of the pond in Great Britain. It's time for a divorce, citing irreconcilable differences with the WPA.

From now on, I will be supporting American promoters and organizers who are trying to do something to help elevate American pool. The CSI and BCA league, led by Mark Griffin, is one entity that can make a difference in American pool. They have a mission and a plan all laid out illustrating how this can work.

I also think the other leagues such as APA and TAP are making strides to keep pool alive in well in various regions of the country. I also pledge my support to independent promoters like Greg Sullivan, Barry Behrman, Mike Zuglan, Mike Janis, Mike Ricciardella, Mark Cantrill, Tom Gearhart, Marge and Shannon Daulton, Seminole Tribe, and Allen Hopkins, just to name a few. :smile:

I apologize in advance for this post if it offends anybody who does think highly of the WPA and BCA, but what have they done for America lately? Not much as far as I can read. :shakehead:

Long live American pool sans WPA and BCA. :yes:
 
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Bob Jewett said:
While this seems to be true for pool (at least in the US), it is not true in some parts of the world for carom and snooker.
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The World Snooker Championship runs for three weeks, three sessions per day. Seats cost 15 pounds per session for the early play.

I saw where another another tournament was getting 20 pounds for standing room.
 
Dartman said:
If the top independent promoters got together and pooled their resources then 75k added events might be achievable. JMO
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On paper, Dartman, that does look good, but there's too many proprietary things in pool that one promoter does not want to share with another promoter.

Even if 75,000-added events were possible, I don't think anybody should pay the WPA a 10-percent tax on the total tournament purse to allow the event to be sanctioned. The WPA is looking out for the WPA, it would seem, and the United States, to include Great Britain without a WPA representative at this time, looks like their forgotten stepchildren.

Mark Griffin should be given the reigns to lead American pool at this point, IMO, with his plan which has been well described on this forum several times. The BCA should just continue to praise the industry members, and the WPA can continue to travel the globe on their 10-percent tax and enjoy their trips to the Middle East. American pool does not need either organizational entity anymore. They serve no purpose, IMO.
 
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