Opinions: what is the best playing wood for a cue?

[scsuxci]

do you think if you ask that question in the "ask the cuemaker" forum you might get an educated answer???
just sayin
:thumbup:

Sorry,didn't know us folk who buy the cues don't know nothin about them our how they play,Ya ,thats it

 

[whammo57]

Padauk. A cue has to have padauk in it to play well! I have enough padauk to build about 400 cues. So if you need some for a cue, table legs, dog house just let me know.

Larry

I like CM and Paduak cues. I think they feel good and you can keep them fairly light. I don't really like a cue much over 18 oz.

I recently built a cue for a guy that traded me 6 Paduak boards that were about 48 inches long, and 2 by 8. They were from a S&M bondage chair. There probably is enough DNA on the wood to clone and army.

Nice wood.........

LOL

Kim

 

[subdude1974]

Maple. It is the wood of choice for many reasons.
(1). Relatively low cost.
(2). High strength to weight ratio.
(3). High resistance to warpage.
(4). Ease in machining.
(5). Some pieces are highly decorative.
I could go on, but my chicken pot pie is in the oven waiting for me. :smile:

I would say straight grain maple is the best.

 

[cueaddicts]

Imo, it's hard to argue against hard maple, purpleheart and ebony...

 

[Mr. Bond]

Wood Species and the Janka Hardness Scale:

The Red Oak, which has a Janka rating of 1290, is the industry benchmark for comparing the relative hardness of different wood species.
Since the hardness of the wood varies with the direction of the grain, both side testing and end testing is performed on wood.

Here are some examples of various woods and their Janka Hardness Rating.
Obviously, this is only a short list of all the available woods but hopefully will give a good representation of the most common ones.
http://www.woodworkersguide.com

Buckeye (Yellow) 350
Aspen (Quaking) 350
Eastern White Pine 380
Basswood (American) 410
White Pine 420
Aspen (Big Tooth) 420
Hemlock 500
Banak 510
Chestnut 540
Baldcypress 570
Larch 590
Alder (Red) 590
Douglas Fir 660
Southern Yellow Pine (short leaf) 690
Shedua 710
Box Elder 720
Birch (Grey) 760
Sycamore 770
Parana 780
Lacewood 840
Leopardwood 840
Ash (Black) 850
Southern Yellow Pine (longleaf) 870
Cedar 900
Birch (Paper) 910
Boire 940
Imbuia 950
Black Cherry 950
American Cherry 950
Sakura 995
Ash (Pumpkin) 990
Teak 1000
Black Walnut 1010
Albarco 1020
Boreal 1023
Avodire 1080
Makore 1100
Brazilian Eucalyptus 1125
Andiroba 1130
Cocobolo 1136
Ash (Oregon) 1160
Ash (Green) 1200
Movingui 1230
Birch (Yellow) 1260
Red Oak (Northern) 1290
Angelique 1290
American Beech 1300
Ash (White) 1320
Ribbon Gum 1349
Tasmanian Oak 1350
White Oak 1360
Australian Cypress 1375
Natural Bamboo 1380
Coffee Bean 1390
Hard Maple 1450
Brazilian Oak 1460
Birch (Sweet) 1470
Curupixa 1490
Brazilian Maple 1500
Sapele 1510
Kambala 1540
Peroba 1557
Afromosia 1560
Timborana 1570
Zebrawood 1575
Tualang 1624
Red Pine 1630
Wenge 1630
Highland Beech 1686
Locust 1700
Kempas 1710
Merbau 1712
Blackwood 1720
Angelim 1720
African Pedauk 1725
Apple 1730
Angelin 1750
Benge 1750
Rosewood 1780
Bangkirai 1798
Afzelia 1810
Doussie 1810
Hickory 1820
Pecan 1820
Satinwood 1820
Goncalo Alves 1850
Tigerwood 1850
Purpleheart 1860
Jarrah 1910
Amendoin 1912
Merbau 1925
Tallowwood 1933
Cameron 1940
Bubinga 1980
Sydney Blue Gum 2023
Kari 2030
Ash (Blue) 2030
Moabi 2050
South American Pearwood 2100
Brushbox 2135
Pradoo 2170
Bocote 2200
Cabreuva 2200
Santos Mahogany 2200
Tatajuba 2220
Mesquite 2345
Jatoba 2350
Spotted Gum 2473
Bubinga 2690
Red Mahogany 2697
Turpentine 2697
Bloodwood 2900
Angelim Pedra 3040
Brazilian Redwood 3190
Paraju 3190
Tiete Rosewood 3200
Ebony 3220
Azobe 3350
Cumaru 3540
Ipe 3680

 

[wambamcam]

I like CM and Paduak cues. I think they feel good and you can keep them fairly light. I don't really like a cue much over 18 oz.

I recently built a cue for a guy that traded me 6 Paduak boards that were about 48 inches long, and 2 by 8. They were from a S&M bondage chair. There probably is enough DNA on the wood to clone and army.

Nice wood.........

LOL

Kim

Hmm, I would highly recommend a wrap instead of wrapless for those cues...

 

[Mr. Bond]

looking at the Janka scale above, one might assume that a harder wood is "stronger" than a softer one, but this is not always the case.

for example, "hardness" often equates to brittle or even split-prone wood.
..or wood that doesn't hold up well under impacts.

surprisingly enough, as attractive and popular as they are, cocobolo, pedauk, ebony and even rock maple are not really rated that highly for impact.
(meaning they are slightly more likely to break than to absorb)

but at the same time, not many people actually use their cue in a way that would threaten the integrity of a simple maple shaft.

 

[ronscuba]

looking at the Janka scale above, one might assume that a harder wood is "stronger" than a softer one, but this is not always the case.

for example, "hardness" often equates to brittle or even split-prone wood.
..or wood that doesn't hold up well under impacts.

surprisingly enough, as attractive and popular as they are, cocobolo, pedauk, ebony and even rock maple are not really rated that highly for impact.
(meaning they are slightly more likely to break than to absorb)

but at the same time, not many people actually use their cue in a way that would threaten the integrity of a simple maple shaft.

Does the hardness scale translate to how a cue's hit will feel ? All other cue components being equal except for the cue butt of course.

 

[qbilder]

I believe wood should be chosen first by it's tonal characteristics, then weight, then aesthetics. Tonal characteristics matter not because of the sound, but because that sound directly translates to energy continuity. High tone woods allow for high energy transfer. Low lone = low transfer, high absorption. I have found a specific sound, tone if you will, that is paramount in playability. Tone is affected by everything including wood, dimensions, construction technique, etc. So regardless of your taper or whether the cue is full slice or a solid butt, the tone will tell you how the cue plays.

Sound travels in vibration waves in a material or air. We use the term "resonance" to describe & quantify that vibration. A high tone wood vibrates fast. A low tone wood vibrates slow. It's not unlike the strings of an instrument. Understanding this simple science, a builder can begin paying attention to the tone of his cues and eventually use that knowledge to tune a cue to play a certain way. If he wishes to, he can learn to use tone as a way to create a high level of consistency in his cues so that each cue has his/her signature trademark hit. It begins with the wood chosen, and ends with the choice of tip & bumper. This is why I have always contended that everything in a cue is equally important, even something as seemingly insignificant as a bumper.

Wood choice does indeed make a difference. That said, a competent builder can utilize almost anything required to achieve the aesthetic goal, and still tune it to play the way he/she wants it to play. With coring, resin stabilizing, modern adhesives, etc., the sky is the limits. Personally, I like rosewoods & high tone maples. But I can and have used pretty much any wood to result in a specific hit. There's a science to cues that I have only begun to learn, and hope to continually learn. But as of now, considering the knowledge I have gained thus far, nobody can convince me that the butt of a cue doesn't matter. Maybe i'll learn something later on that turns my philosophy on it's head. Time will tell.

Sorry about the long post. I'm in between classes for a couple hours & had a minute. Wood is kinda my thing.

 

[meridianblades]

Eric....have more hickory burl down there ?? Thanks for the info, and your take on this.

-Larry

 

[Mr. Bond]

Does the hardness scale translate to how a cue's hit will feel ? All other cue components being equal except for the cue butt of course.

yes and no...
while hardness does matter to a certain extent, feel has more to do with the construction method and the actual wood density* = the two things that will effect sound and vibration travel the most.

* which also depends on moisture content, natural oil content, grain, compression, drying method, wood treatment etc.

 

[Mr. Bond]

if you made a whole one-piece cue out of each wood type, with no splice or anything, you'd easily be able to distingush the "feel" of each one. and with cues like that - a hardness scale would be somewhat helpful.

some would obviously be stiffer while others would be more flexible. some would be markedly louder than others etc etc. but as soon as you splice it, cut it in half, and add a screw, it's obviously a whole different animal.

cue trivia:
some folks are not aware of this, but you can actually tune a cue to vibrate between certain frequencies. each time you hit, your cue emits a certain note on the musical scale that can easily be tweaked up or down depending on the length and density of the wood used. (you can also make it louder or softer)

 

[rayjay]

Just use SouthWest's tapers and rings and everybody's happy. On another aside, Tony Scianella (Black Boar Cues) once said he could walk into a pool hall and just listen to see if anybody was using a Black Boar.
:thumbup:

 

[desi2960]

to answer your question

i have played for 63 years and the last 10 i have made 375 cues, and that doesn't make me an expert, but in my opinion brazilian rosewood

 

[ronscuba]

yes and no...
while hardness does matter to a certain extent, feel has more to do with the construction method and the actual wood density* = the two things that will effect sound and vibration travel the most.

* which also depends on moisture content, natural oil content, grain, compression, drying method, wood treatment etc.

So when a manufacturer offers a line of cues with everything the same except for the type of wood in the butt section and butt design such as points, inlays, etc., the difference is mainly visual ?

 

[JoeyInCali]

i have played for 63 years and the last 10 i have made 375 cues, and that doesn't make me an expert, but in my opinion brazilian rosewood

It is the king of all tone woods.
Tone? Wuttcha talking about ?
Braz rosewood is not as heavy or as dense as say cocobolo or ebony.
I don't think it's as rigid as purpleheart.
But, somehow it just hits damn good.
Two more Brazilian species are also great players imo are bloodwood and pernambuco.
Tight straight grain ugly maple plays sporty too. Specially if matched with a rosewood handle.

 

[ronscuba]

yes and no...
while hardness does matter to a certain extent, feel has more to do with the construction method and the actual wood density* = the two things that will effect sound and vibration travel the most.

* which also depends on moisture content, natural oil content, grain, compression, drying method, wood treatment etc.

So when a manufacturer offers a line of cues with everything the same except for the type of wood in the butt section and butt design such as points, inlays, etc., the difference is mainly visual ?

For example, Mezz EC line offers cues made with Purple Heart, Cocobolo, Bacote, Wenge, Curly Maple, Padouk, Ironwood, Birdseye Maple, Rosewood.

 

[Fatboy]

i have played for 63 years and the last 10 i have made 375 cues, and that doesn't make me an expert, but in my opinion brazilian rosewood

Here are some random thoughts:

Rose wood does play nice.

The shaft is a big part of the hit of a cue, but i have butts that suck no matter what shaft I put on them, and some that feel good with almost any shaft. FWIW

Ebony is (as a rule) a bit dense and dead for me. however I do have one ebony forearm cue that does play good. So there is a exception.

I think that how a cue is built(style of construction-specifically the A joint) has a bigger influence on the feel of the hit than the wood. in most case's.

Burl woods look great but I aint ever found a cue that hit good with them, they dampen the hit. and are whippy, no matter what kind of construction is used at the A joint.

Old wood plays better than new wood 99% of the time.


just some random thoughts on a endless debate:smile:

 

[Mr. Bond]

So when a manufacturer offers a line of cues with everything the same except for the type of wood in the butt section and butt design such as points, inlays, etc., the difference is mainly visual ?

For example, Mezz EC line offers cues made with Purple Heart, Cocobolo, Bacote, Wenge, Curly Maple, Padouk, Ironwood, Birdseye Maple, Rosewood.

assuming that everything was the same, except for inlays or veneers, (exterior details only) yes, any difference would be primarily aesthetic. (perhaps slight sound variations)

...but an entire butt section made of one wood will have a different weight, balance point, sound and vibration rate than another wood.

 

[desi2960]

fatboy

Old wood plays better than new wood 99% of the time.

we agree 100% here, i have couple hundred old one piece house cues and that is where i get almost all my shaft wood, hard to beat that old honey color very dense wood,