Outside english on cut shots...

Do you use outside english on cut shots?

  • Total voters
    169
Hairy-Redneck

Hairy-Redneck

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was talking to a really good open player and he gave me a good tidbit. He says he uses outside english on about 90% of cut shots. He told me the outside cancels out the collision induced throw. It made a lot of sense to me but when I tried it I kept overcutting the balls. I usually hit center pocket and I'm considered a really good shootmaker. I think I should just forget about it.

How many of you use english on cut shots to cancel out english?
 
Hairy-Redneck said:
I was talking to a really good open player and he gave me a good tidbit. He says he uses outside english on about 90% of cut shots. He told me the outside cancels out the collision induced throw. It made a lot of sense to me but when I tried it I kept overcutting the balls. I usually hit center pocket and I'm considered a really good shootmaker. I think I should just forget about it.

How many of you use english on cut shots to cancel out english?
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I would say probably 80% percent or so for me. The other 20% is just simply because inside or center ball was called for for proper position. Otherwise I always use some outside. Makes pocketing balls much much easier IMO.
 
dedstroke38 said:
I would say probably 80% percent or so for me. The other 20% is just simply because inside or center ball was called for for proper position. Otherwise I always use some outside. Makes pocketing balls much much easier IMO.
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Couldn't have said it better..fits me like a glove!!
 
I had a bad habit of putting outside on everything, even shots that really needed other englishes. Took me years to break it and figure out how to make balls with center or inside. Now that I can do that, I'm working the touch-o-outside back into my game. I know scientifically it's supposed to help, and it feels comfortable. But I can't swear that the balls I spin in wouldn't have dropped anyway using plain center ball.

I think it says something though that I kind of instinctively got into the habit of putting gearing english on everything. I never made a conscious choice to do it, just felt right and seemed to help balls go in the hole.
 
Sometimes. I'm learning to incorporate more often but as I'm still learning it's hard enough just to pot balls with center ball without worrying about compensating for English
 
If you read the stuff at Dave Alciatore's web site, you will find that not only does outside english cancel throw, but the exact amount needed for throw cancellation (gearing) has been determined for all cut angles.
 
It depends. I like to use outside english to minimize cueball movement. But if the cut is too thin, I'll use no english most of the time.
 
Ideally, if you watch and pay close attention to higher level players as well as pros, because using outside English on a cut shot is almost considered a given, patterns are generally played in a way that allows a player to use outside on most cuts. Generally speaking, using inside English on a cut shot is considered an extreme measure used to correct bad shape. This isn't always the case however.
dave
 
Call me crazy, but recently I've discovered that on really thin cut shots I've been using extreme draw english (middle, not outside), and am amazed at the number of balls I've been making using this approach. Whatever works...:grin:
 
Tokyo-dave said:
Ideally, if you watch and pay close attention to higher level players as well as pros, because using outside English on a cut shot is almost considered a given, patterns are generally played in a way that allows a player to use outside on most cuts. Generally speaking, using inside English on a cut shot is considered an extreme measure used to correct bad shape. This isn't always the case however.
dave
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Well said. The poll should have had an option for "Almost always, with common exceptions for very severe angle cuts, very slight angle cuts that are nearly straight, and when position requirements call for the use of other english."

I think the answer for most people lies in between the given choices of "yes" and "sometimes" in this poll, with neither of those choices being ideal or accurate.
 
OP this works very well for shots being rolled into the hole from long distances. Say like a cut shot into the far corner or all the way down the rail and you are rolling the ob into the pocket. If you are pocketing at higher speeds the throw does not come into play and you have to adjust for squirt. Thats why i selected sometimes in your poll.
 
If I can get the desired position using outside I definitely use it. That means even if I have the option of going another route to the next ball I'll still use the outside to cancel out the throw/push.
MULLY
 
Hairy-Redneck said:
I was talking to a really good open player and he gave me a good tidbit. He says he uses outside english on about 90% of cut shots. He told me the outside cancels out the collision induced throw. It made a lot of sense to me but when I tried it I kept overcutting the balls. I usually hit center pocket and I'm considered a really good shootmaker. I think I should just forget about it.

How many of you use english on cut shots to cancel out english?
Click to expand...

Red, you might be overcutting balls using outside english because you didnt change the contact point on the object ball. Before giving up, I'd try aiming for a little thicker hit.

That said, I agree outside helps because it cancels out throw. I started playing that way a long time ago because I heard someone else say the same thing. (I think it was Hopkins.) But as someone else said, relying on certain shots is bad for other aspects. I think its best to execute what the shot calls for. If shooting a shot with outside is the only way you feel comfortable, do it....but understand that it's a weakness.
 
I play outside english on a "lot of" normal cut shots, with the frequency of using it increasing with increasing cut angle. 80+ degree cuts are almost always going to use OE. But once you get down to 30 degree cuts, I use it when it helps the "rest of the shot" and not when it does not. Recently I've been practicing using a lot of IE on medium cuts into the side pocket to gain position and not have to hit three rails to bring the CB back to the middle of the table.

Also note: if the CB is not rolling at the moment of impact (like in a stop shot) the IE and OE have maximal effect and lessening effect with draw or force follow. The avoidance of contact induced throw is a vector quantity at the moment of impact. So if you are using draw/follow you need more OE, going down to a minimum when the CB is sliding at contact.
 
Well. The poll is kind of not set up right, because if the shot calls for inside english for position then that's what is needed, but it's not an option. Now, if the poll was say, if you're shooting the 9-ball and it's a cut shot, would you put outside english on it, and i would say yes 100% of the time, I always put outside english to throw the ball in.
 
themack said:
Well. The poll is kind of not set up right, because if the shot calls for inside english for position then that's what is needed, but it's not an option. Now, if the poll was say, if you're shooting the 9-ball and it's a cut shot, would you put outside english on it, and i would say yes 100% of the time, I always put outside english to throw the ball in.
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I don't know if "throw it in" is the right way to explain it. The OE is used so the CB rolls off the ball instead of the friction pushing it forward. I'm with you 100% on using it on cutting the 9 in almost 100% of the time.
MULLY
 
If you don't have to go too far(like 4-5 rails) to get position on the next ball you can use outside on cut-shots by hitting the OB fuller and shooting softer giving the spin/english more time to take/throw. Johnnyt
 
Hairy-Redneck said:
I was talking to a really good open player and he gave me a good tidbit. He says he uses outside english on about 90% of cut shots. He told me the outside cancels out the collision induced throw. It made a lot of sense to me but when I tried it I kept overcutting the balls. I usually hit center pocket and I'm considered a really good shootmaker. I think I should just forget about it.

How many of you use english on cut shots to cancel out english?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you have to adjust for deflection though? So now you're compensating for throw but having to compensate for deflection when you're aiming. Kinda confusing no?
 
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